Topic: Who knows anything about boats?

[paulages]

Do you think she'll fall for it?  You could throw the old finger in the belly button trick in while you're at it. 

eh, the old running out of gas on a quiet country lane trick works every time...

[pdxPope]

Ok this thread is starting to take a weird turn, even for me.

Have fun @ Timothy lake.
ODFW usually doesn't stock it this late in the year, so I'm not sure how good the fishing will be, but I'm sure you and 'Suzie' will find something to occupy your time...


-JP

[Stev-o]

I got the boat registered today, printed my course certificate (temporary permit until my BEC comes in the mail), and finished tuning her up. she purrs at a 600 RPM idle now. i also picked up a fish/depth finder, a couple oars (backup engine  ), a couple more life jackets, some spring lines, and most importantly the vintage drink holders that fit the mounts already on the boat. i need to finish installing the fish finder tomorrow, and she'll be ready to go!

You went from not knowing #$%* about boats to buying one, rebuilding the fuel delivery system, getting it registered and passing the boater's safety course in, what, two weeks and change?

Ha. Only you! 

He did real good! One more thing that I do not think has been mentioned: For an inboard/outboard [which I believe you have] it is very important to run the blower motor for two minutes efore starting the engine to remove any gas fumes from the engine compartment.
Have fun!

[paulages]

I got the boat registered today, printed my course certificate (temporary permit until my BEC comes in the mail), and finished tuning her up. she purrs at a 600 RPM idle now. i also picked up a fish/depth finder, a couple oars (backup engine  ), a couple more life jackets, some spring lines, and most importantly the vintage drink holders that fit the mounts already on the boat. i need to finish installing the fish finder tomorrow, and she'll be ready to go!

You went from not knowing #$%* about boats to buying one, rebuilding the fuel delivery system, getting it registered and passing the boater's safety course in, what, two weeks and change?

Ha. Only you! 

He did real good! One more thing that I do not think has been mentioned: For an inboard/outboard [which I believe you have] it is very important to run the blower motor for two minutes efore starting the engine to remove any gas fumes from the engine compartment.
Have fun!

the doghouse pops right off... it's easy enough just to open it up before starting it. thanks though!

[paulages]

how about "about another $75?" ... the engine was running a little hot, so i pulled the lower and found a mess of a water pump. hope i can fine one in town tomorrow. they're not too expensive: $65-75, and include everything.

i'm not bothered by shaking a new vehicle down, it just sucks to have to go to the marina to do it!

[Retro Rocket]

$   'Bout Another Thousand  $

a boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into


the two best days of having a boat are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.

A little pessimistic don't you think....Been on the water my whole life and its definitely better than that....

Paul, opening the engine hatch doesn't get rid of the fumes, they are heavier than air and just sit there, hence the smoking warning earlier....

Mick

[pdxPope]

the engine was running a little hot, so i pulled the lower and found a mess of a water pump. hope i can fine one in town tomorrow. they're not too expensive: $65-75, and include everything.

Good thing you found that now! The whole waterpump or just the impeller?

Cascade Marine (about 148th & Stark) used to be a MerCruiser dealer, not sure if they still are or if they would have parts in stock for an outdrive of your vintage. If you do go there, take the old one with you- they are IDIOTS. Also Fairview Marine Salvage will probably have a used one if you are desperate and want to go that route.

Sorry all my suggestions are on the east side. There used to be 2 or 3 good places in North Portland or St. Johns, but I don't get out that way much anymore and have no idea if they are still around.

-JP

the two best days of having a boat are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.

  Nope.

It'd be a toss-up between the first time I was old enough to go fishing @ 0'dark-thirty with my father and grandfather before he passed away. The time I anchored in a quiet little cove and spent an 2 hours watching an osprey fishing. Or the first time I pulled my kids in an inner-tube and heard them scream "do it again, Daddy!"


-JP

[paulages]

$   'Bout Another Thousand  $

a boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into


the two best days of having a boat are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.

A little pessimistic don't you think....Been on the water my whole life and its definitely better than that....

Paul, opening the engine hatch doesn't get rid of the fumes, they are heavier than air and just sit there, hence the smoking warning earlier....

Mick

true, but on a windy day (most days on the columbia) i won't be too worried about it. plus, a little pyrotechnics onboard a boat? what the worst that could go wrong?  

[paulages]

the engine was running a little hot, so i pulled the lower and found a mess of a water pump. hope i can fine one in town tomorrow. they're not too expensive: $65-75, and include everything.

Good thing you found that now! The whole waterpump or just the impeller?

Cascade Marine (about 148th & Stark) used to be a MerCruiser dealer, not sure if they still are or if they would have parts in stock for an outdrive of your vintage. If you do go there, take the old one with you- they are IDIOTS. Also Fairview Marine Salvage will probably have a used one if you are desperate and want to go that route.

Sorry all my suggestions are on the east side. There used to be 2 or 3 good places in North Portland or St. Johns, but I don't get out that way much anymore and have no idea if they are still around.

-JP

the two best days of having a boat are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.

  Nope.

It'd be a toss-up between the first time I was old enough to go fishing @ 0'dark-thirty with my father and grandfather before he passed away. The time I anchored in a quiet little cove and spent an 2 hours watching an osprey fishing. Or the first time I pulled my kids in an inner-tube and heard them scream "do it again, Daddy!"


-JP

the entire outboard water pump seems to be sold as a kit, but the water pump and riser are TOAST. i ran in only completely submerged in a tub of water, so i suspect the PO running it with the ears. who knows.. seems like the impeller replacement is maintenance type stuff.

good stories!

[seaweb11]

Quotes:
"true, but on a windy day (most days on the columbia) i won't be too worried about it. plus, a little pyrotechnics onboard a boat? what the worst that could go wrong?"

 "the doghouse pops right off... it's easy enough just to open it up before starting it. thanks though!"

Yeah, just what you want to do with a boat full of friends. "Excuse me I have to lift the engine cover, oops, sorry, can you just move over there"

Get the bilge blower working. It's simple, easily installed or replaced or rewired if you have one already sitting in there.
It's your life and all those on board.  

I was surprised you went out with the wife before going over the carbs, all hoses, lower end lube, oil change, the works.
    We say the same thing to guys here who just bought an unknown bike project.  .............But in this case no one can walk home.

P.S. Don't grab on to that "hose ears cause problems crap".  I have had outboards and inboards for over 30 years and wash out the salt after every outing at home with my small boats.  Mechanics use them all day every day when working on big boats that are out on the dry  

Take it slow.

[paulages]

Quotes:
"true, but on a windy day (most days on the columbia) i won't be too worried about it. plus, a little pyrotechnics onboard a boat? what the worst that could go wrong?"

 "the doghouse pops right off... it's easy enough just to open it up before starting it. thanks though!"

Yeah, just what you want to do with a boat full of friends. "Excuse me I have to lift the engine cover, oops, sorry, can you just move over there"

Get the bilge blower working. It's simple, easily installed or replaced or rewired if you have one already sitting in there.
It's your life and all those on board.  

I was surprised you went out with the wife before going over the carbs, all hoses, lower end lube, oil change, the works.
    We say the same thing to guys here who just bought an unknown bike project.  .............But in this case no one can walk home.

P.S. Don't grab on to that "hose ears cause problems crap".  I have had outboards and inboards for over 30 years and wash out the salt after every outing at home with my small boats.  Mechanics use them all day every day when working on big boats that are out on the dry  

Take it slow.

i was being sarcastic about the pyrotechnics... my blower works, and i fire it up for at least 5 minutes before starting. i have been starting it with the doghouse off, just because i've been tuning it. i guess sarcasm doesn't translate well on the web. anyway, to compare to bikes, i buy old bikes all the time, and while i wouldn't put a stranger on a bike with unknown safety problems, i know my limits well. as for taking the girlfriend out on the boat without knowing all the mechanical faults... well, that's what we had JP (pdxPope) along for, to help show me the ropes and well.. tow line.  in any case, there's no way to shake a bike or a boat down without getting on or in it, and in the case of the boat, that unfortunately means getting out in the middle of a body of water. today i did it with a friend, paddles, and stayed close to the shore... because there was noone along to tow us. this weekend we'll be at a lake that will be easy enough to paddle in if the boat has problems. dunno how else i'm supposed to figure ot mechanical problems? 

i appreciate the sound advice, as you don't really know me and it's good advice especially if someone else is reading and thinks they can wing things like i do and get away with is. it works for me, but not for everyone. i sold a '71 BSA to a friend who thought he could just hop on it and ride 700 miles without shaking it down (after doing a lot of post-sale work to it). he learned the hard way. i like to take small circles farther and farther away form the shop until i'm certain i can make it back, and even then i expect things to happen, especially on british bikes. this boat feels very similar to me... i know it'll be solid, but it's small steps for now.

i'll keep my "eh, i can handle it" attitude to myself, as it might not be the best inspiration for others...


oh, and as for the hose ears thing... something destroyed the lower water pump, and i have a hard time believing that the total immersion bath i had it in while running did it. maybe it was just overdue? seems lots of people recommend replacing the impeller every couple years anyway.

[Retro Rocket]

oh, and as for the hose ears thing... something destroyed the lower water pump, and i have a hard time believing that the total immersion bath i had it in while running did it. maybe it was just overdue? seems lots of people recommend replacing the impeller every couple years anyway.

Do you guys have wheelie bins over there for house hold garbage?   they are excellent for turning into an engine cleaning device with wheels for starting boat engines out of the river or lake or what ever.....Because they are plastic you can plumb a hose into them with ease .....i'll see if i can find a pic for you..

http://www.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=wheelie%20bin&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=606


Mick

[paulages]

I feel like i should give an update on the boat after all the help I received here...

First off, I've been out on the water a lot lately, despite mechanical glitches. The funny thing is, for having jumped through all the legal hoops, none of it seems to have mattered so far... once the coast guard rolled up while we were having engine problems, and didn't ask a word about stickers or boater's education card. anyway...

I took the boat out a few times ironing the problems out. First the impeller pump was toast and I had to rebuild it. No big deal, as it was only $60 or so for the kit, which was all but a new pump. At this point when I separated the upper and lower housing, a bunch of oil should have poured out of the upper gear housing, but didn't... and when I put it back together I didn't know that the upper and lower gear housings shared oil. Apparently the PO filled the gear oil from the top instead of pumping it in from the bottom, or maybe it lost oil... I don't know. In any case, I spent a weekend on a local lake (Timothy meadows for you locals), and had a major gear failure in the middle of the lake at WOT. i limped around the rest of the weekend, but the upper gears were toast.

I found replacement gear kits online, but considering needing special tools, etc. I decided to just replace the upper with a used unit from a boat yard. Knowing what to look for at this point, I found a nice unit and replaced it along with the gaskets and o-rings to the gimbal housing. The bellows all looked nice. Got it back in the water... and the shift cable breaks.   Replaced that and got back in the water, and it has been a blast. however...

The boat seems to have some kind of fuel delivery issue. I haven't ironed it out, but have figured out how to deal with it. When I first went out with John Paul (PDXPope), it died in the middle of the Columbia. I thought I diagnosed the problem to be a missing carb float clip that pulls the float needle down with the float in case gravity doesn't do the trick. It worked for a while, but still has issues if i run at WOT for 10 minutes or so. I found that if I vented the line at the fuel fliter/water separator I could hear a hiss as if there was a vapor lock, and the fuel would continue to flow. However, the fuel line seems to be clear (blowing through it with compressed air), the tank is half full, tank vent/overflow is clear, and the fuel pickup and screen in the tank is clear. At this point I feel like either the inner lining of the fuel line is compromised and caving in under pressure, or the pump is failing after a bit. I still can't work out why it would do so only under high demand though, as the fuel pump tests the same at WOT as it does at idle.

anyway, I've been having a blast exploring the Willamette. I'll get around to the Columbia too, but I have two free boat ramps very close to my house. Donuts and figure eights in the middle of the river at night is like nothing else!!!

now to start a fishing thread...  

[pdxPope]

Yeah, I've been meaning to e-mail you and ask how things are going.
Glad to hear you've been working the bugs out and getting aquainted with the old girl!

Couple of quick questions re: fuel delivery issues- (I can't remember) is it an electrical fuel pump or a mechanical one? If it's electric, I'd just replace it (if not too expensive).
Also, are you sure it's a fuel problem? How is the timing advance unit and other ignition bits?

I rarely run at WOT. Once you get up on a plane, back the throttle off a little. Less stress on the motor and better mileage.

Boats are a blast. Be carefull running at night, especially now that fall is coming. There will be TONS of debris floating towards you that is hard to see in the daytime and 99.9% invisible at night.
Ok, enough mother hen. I promise. 

-JP

[paulages]

Yeah, I've been meaning to e-mail you and ask how things are going.
Glad to hear you've been working the bugs out and getting aquainted with the old girl!

Couple of quick questions re: fuel delivery issues- (I can't remember) is it an electrical fuel pump or a mechanical one? If it's electric, I'd just replace it (if not too expensive).
Also, are you sure it's a fuel problem? How is the timing advance unit and other ignition bits?

I rarely run at WOT. Once you get up on a plane, back the throttle off a little. Less stress on the motor and better mileage.

Boats are a blast. Be carefull running at night, especially now that fall is coming. There will be TONS of debris floating towards you that is hard to see in the daytime and 99.9% invisible at night.
Ok, enough mother hen. I promise. 

-JP

Hey JP-

Yeah, I worry about debris in the river at night. For the most part the night boating has been just to get back to the dock, and and a snails pace. With the rains will come lots more crap floating down the rivers I imagine.

When I say WOT, I guess I do mean what you are describing: I get it up at WOT, then back it off a little to cruise. Maybe I should say "high demand" instead, in regards to fuel. If I go at an idle or just above it, it never starves. I'm not 100% positive it's fuel, but it sure as hell seems like it. I'll change the coil this week too just to make sure it's not acting up, but I'm pretty sure fuel deliver is the problem. It's a mechanical fuel pump-- an old carter. Napa has it for $170. I'd like to know for sure I need one before springing for that. The fuel line aint cheap, but it's also not $170.

I bought a 6 HP Johnson long shaft also, and mounted it to the outboard plate. I hooked up the easy-steer to it so I can troll from the helm, but it also seems like it has fuel pump problems and needs a squeeze of the primer bulb every few minutes. I'm less worried about that as it's manageable and only really a backup engine at this point.

[Stev-o]

Welcome to boat ownership!

Unfortunately, it is always something, but not necessarily mechanical.
But there is nothing like floating out on the water having fun w/friends.
I haven't been out since Labor Day weekend and miss it already!

[pdxPope]

When I say WOT, I guess I do mean what you are describing: I get it up at WOT, then back it off a little to cruise. Maybe I should say "high demand" instead, in regards to fuel. If I go at an idle or just above it, it never starves. I'm not 100% positive it's fuel, but it sure as hell seems like it. I'll change the coil this week too just to make sure it's not acting up, but I'm pretty sure fuel deliver is the problem. It's a mechanical fuel pump-- an old carter. Napa has it for $170. I'd like to know for sure I need one before springing for that. The fuel line aint cheap, but it's also not $170.

Yeah, throwing parts at a problem hoping to get lucky can get expensive fast.

Random thoughts:

So the motor just cuts out like the key got turned off? or does it sputter and die like it's running out of fuel?
Your fuel tank is in the bow, right?
The fuel line is 30 years old. It's possible that the scenario you described is happening.
I assume that you have a shop manual for that motor and have done plenty of online research.
I seem to remember hearing somewhere that those carburetors are finicky....

Have you tried running the motor with an external fuel source and line?


-JP
   

[paulages]

When I say WOT, I guess I do mean what you are describing: I get it up at WOT, then back it off a little to cruise. Maybe I should say "high demand" instead, in regards to fuel. If I go at an idle or just above it, it never starves. I'm not 100% positive it's fuel, but it sure as hell seems like it. I'll change the coil this week too just to make sure it's not acting up, but I'm pretty sure fuel deliver is the problem. It's a mechanical fuel pump-- an old carter. Napa has it for $170. I'd like to know for sure I need one before springing for that. The fuel line aint cheap, but it's also not $170.

Yeah, throwing parts at a problem hoping to get lucky can get expensive fast.

Random thoughts:

So the motor just cuts out like the key got turned off? or does it sputter and die like it's running out of fuel?
Your fuel tank is in the bow, right?
The fuel line is 30 years old. It's possible that the scenario you described is happening.
I assume that you have a shop manual for that motor and have done plenty of online research.
I seem to remember hearing somewhere that those carburetors are finicky....

Have you tried running the motor with an external fuel source and line?


-JP
   

It sputters, and almost dies. Now, I cut the engine and vent the fuel line where the fuel fliter/ water separator was, and it's fine again. I need to try a short line to a fuel can to test the fuel line, but haven't got around to it. I don't think the fuel line is original, but it still could be compromised. BTW, original would be 41 years old. 

carburetors finicky? I've never heard of such a thing!! 

[pdxPope]

It sputters, and almost dies. Now, I cut the engine and vent the fuel line where the fuel fliter/ water separator was, and it's fine again.

That sounds like vapor lock, but I can't imagine why it would be doing that.

Here is an option, but it's risky: take the gas cap off the tank and run the motor at 3/4 throttle. If the problem goes away, you know the issue is with the tank venting properly. ONLY DO THIS WHEN THE BOAT IS IN THE WATER AND MOVING. but you knew that already

BTW, original would be 41 years old.

Jesus! That's older than dirt. 

-JP

[Hasenkopf]

A "Boat"..........A hole in the water that one throws money into.     

[paulages]

It sputters, and almost dies. Now, I cut the engine and vent the fuel line where the fuel fliter/ water separator was, and it's fine again.

That sounds like vapor lock, but I can't imagine why it would be doing that.

Here is an option, but it's risky: take the gas cap off the tank and run the motor at 3/4 throttle. If the problem goes away, you know the issue is with the tank venting properly. ONLY DO THIS WHEN THE BOAT IS IN THE WATER AND MOVING. but you knew that already

BTW, original would be 41 years old.

Jesus! That's older than dirt. 

-JP

i tried running with the gas cap open, but it really seems like the problem is between the tank and the pump. Besides, that tank has a very large vent that is clear...

[Stev-o]

A "Boat"..........A hole in the water that one throws money into.     

"SOHC Honda".......A bike in the garage thay one throws money into!

And you're point is..

[pdxPope]

i tried running with the gas cap open, but it really seems like the problem is between the tank and the pump. Besides, that tank has a very large vent that is clear...

I certainly can't argue with the diagnosis. Fuel line is cheaper than a new pump.
I'm still not convinced it's not the carb, tho. 

Truly glad to hear that, despite some hiccups, you are enjoying boat ownership! 


-JP

[paulages]

i tried running with the gas cap open, but it really seems like the problem is between the tank and the pump. Besides, that tank has a very large vent that is clear...

I certainly can't argue with the diagnosis. Fuel line is cheaper than a new pump.
I'm still not convinced it's not the carb, tho. 

Truly glad to hear that, despite some hiccups, you are enjoying boat ownership! 


-JP

yeah, it's been great! I'm not 100% convinced the carb isn't being problematic, but i did a fuel pressure test at the carb end of the line when the problem arose, and there was nothing. before that and after venting the line, it saw 4.2# consistently.

another fun glitch last night...

A friend of mine has family visiting from England, and asked me to take them out. We launched at Swan Island, and came around the point and up the Willy through downtown. Under the Hawthorne bridge, the engine suddenly developed a bit of a knock. I opened the cover to check the oil and see that it's all in the bilge instead of the engine.  The oil filter had sprung a leak on the bottom side, right in the side wall.

Anyway, we fired up the trolling motor and cruised up to the convention center dock. I called a friend to pick me up a filter and some oil, and we walked up to Produce Row for a pint and dinner. Frank showed up with the goods, I walked back down and swapped the filter, and fished for a few minutes while I waited for the others.  The boat ran fine the way back, but it was dark by the time we pulled it out. Beautiful night though.

I have a feeling that this thread is going to become something of a "what's gone wrong with paul's boat now" blog.  or maybe a "restoration thread" sounds better? ...

[pdxPope]

Well, you know, old machines have, uhh...character.... 

Nice to have that 6hp kicker, eh?


Please tell me that you are not stuck inside on this amazingly gorgeous day like I am. You should be out on the water! Or at least on two wheels.


-JP