Author Topic: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils  (Read 7242 times)

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Offline Joe Efinger

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Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« on: October 21, 2010, 09:16:59 AM »
ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED:
I have a 1977 CB750 super sport. It had Dyna-S CDI ignition system with accel 140403 (5ohm) coils. I replaced the 140403 coils with the proper coils for a CDI ignition, Accel 140404 (3ohm).  Now I dont get enough juice to charge the battery. Too much is vested into the ignition system. What is the cheapest way to get more juice or I will have to eat these coils and go back to stock (or at least go back to 5 ohm). Everything I wrote above has a BIG QUESTION MARK behind it, as I am NOT a mechanic. I hope I was clear, I'm looking for a higher output ignition system without spending a fortune. Thanks, Joe E. 8)
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Offline number13

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 09:29:18 AM »
Fellow forum member Hondaman makes
a simple drop in resistor pack that will
solve your problem.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 09:48:27 AM »
Yep, buying a 5 ohm coil in the first place would have been the best way to go, 3 ohm coils will also fry your killswitch also and rob precious battery voltage without much to show performance-wise. Power resistors inline with the coils are one way to remedy this problem.
 
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Offline tlbranth

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 09:52:25 AM »
Don't want to hijack this thread but is there a higher output alternator available?
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 04:13:37 PM »
I thought I read the the 750A automatic had a higher output set-up.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 07:36:28 PM »
If you sub in the field coil from the CB750A to a regular CB750K/F, it adds about 2.8 amps of extra capacity. The field coils are a little hard to find, though. Make sure to clean and polish the contacts on your voltage regulator if you do this, as the field coil also consumes more current than the stock units, which is how it makes a denser magnetic field for the rotor to do its thing.

If your rotor is rough-cast, as many later bikes' were, you can also clean up the flash and non-squared corners to improve things an additional small amount (about 1/2 amp overall). The K0/K1 750 alternator rotors were the "cleanest" examples of stock rotors, and produced a little more power than the later ones, with the same field coils and windings. It wasn't a LOT more power, just a partial amp.
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 08:54:34 PM »
I'm always amazed at the lenghts folks will consider doing to ' improve' their ignition systems  :(
If you strain the bike's charging system with 3 ohm coils the solution is to go back to 5 ohm coils and a properly serviced/adjusted points setup... every bit as good as electronic alternatives ( or show me the Dyna H.P. improvement ).... only possible improvement would be a 'points saver/ spark booster' add-on, actually as provided by Hondaman, unless you need to rev. your motor past it's redline constantly....... IMO.
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Offline scottly

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2010, 09:16:43 PM »
Joe, is it possible you have a charging system problem, unrelated to the slightly higher draw of the ignition system? My 750 has no problems with a high power electronic ignition and a halogen head light.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2010, 09:49:13 PM »
Joe, is it possible you have a charging system problem, unrelated to the slightly higher draw of the ignition system? My 750 has no problems with a high power electronic ignition and a halogen head light.

I'll give a +1 to this thought.

Why isn't 210 watts from the alternator enough?
I could understand the smaller bikes with their 150 Watt alternators, but the 750 has a stronger output if it's working properly.

Cheers,
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Offline Old75_ratafe

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2010, 10:00:19 PM »
Joe, is it possible you have a charging system problem, unrelated to the slightly higher draw of the ignition system? My 750 has no problems with a high power electronic ignition and a halogen head light.

I'll give a +1 to this thought.

Why isn't 210 watts from the alternator enough?
I could understand the smaller bikes with their 150 Watt alternators, but the 750 has a stronger output if it's working properly.

Cheers,

+2 I have a Dyna S , Dyna 3ohm coils and have never had an issue.  Well aside from only having to set my timing once.  As far as performance gains over a properly tuned system probably not enough to loose sleep over.  Now if the system he's using is drawing to much I would think a 2.8amp improvement would help a lot.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2010, 11:42:33 PM »
Quote
I'm always amazed at the lenghts folks will consider doing to ' improve' their ignition systems 

+1
There's a lot you can sell to people with mysteries like electricity and magnetism.
Best advise I can give is to check connections, sparkplugs, caps, HTwires and the like.
Don't expect any increase in HP from electronics over a conventional system in good condition. There's none.
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Offline Old75_ratafe

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 01:37:20 AM »
Quote
I'm always amazed at the lenghts folks will consider doing to ' improve' their ignition systems 

+1
There's a lot you can sell to people with mysteries like electricity and magnetism.
Best advise I can give is to check connections, sparkplugs, caps, HTwires and the like.
Don't expect any increase in HP from electronics over a conventional system in good condition. There's none.

Technically conventional is electronic.  The points are literally antique.  I don't think companies would blow billions designing a magnetic trigger system if it wasn't better and more reliable.

But +1 on checking caps connections ect.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 03:21:47 AM »
i agree points are antique,but can still work ok,toyota arent likley to recall cars to have points retro fitted,only for brake and accellerator problems,adjusting points is a lost art.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 03:23:25 AM by dave500 »

Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 05:14:17 AM »
Well judging by the replies in older posts, a dyna system nets better starting, better warmups, and better mileage. All improvements, it does not have to always increase hp for it to be worth it.

On the original topic, maybe aside from cleaning contacts you could switch to led bulbs for the tail and signals and maybe the indicator lights.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:35:28 AM by Skunk Stripe »

Offline Bido

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2010, 07:15:21 AM »
I have a 78 F3, Dyna-S, Accel 3 OHM coils, I used 1 ohm resistor and a adjustable voltage regulator from Oregon? I forget the name. I changed the brake and signal lights to led,s and have a Halogen headlight, Big Crank battery. I have been running this setup for about 15,000 miles no problems what so ever. If anything I may be getting a bit too much charging. I have a LED voltage meter that blips into the overcharge zone at times. I switched to Iridium plugs the bike starts so quick that I crank it a bit to get the oil up before starting. I also cleaned every switch and connector I could find when I first got the bike. Currently I have 29,500 and all is well. One more thing be sure that you have a super good ground from the battery to frame.

Good Luck
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Offline Bodi

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urgent!!! Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2010, 07:40:19 AM »
1 - Dyna S is NOT a CDI ignition, it is an electronic points replacement
2 - Those Accel 140404 "3 ohm" coils you have are actually 0.7 ohm coils, OK for some CDI ignitions but not for a Dyna S or points.
!!!STOP USING THEM NOW!!!
The 140403 coils are the correct ones for you.
The Dyna S must be pretty strong but it won't last long with these coils. Points would burn out in a few minutes. There are a few horror stories of newer bikes burning out $$$$$ ignition boxes after installing these coils, I have no idea why they're advertised as OK for points or electronic ignition.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 07:48:55 AM by Bodi »

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2010, 08:10:57 AM »
Holy crap, 0.7 ohms, that will fry a lot of stuff in your system.  :o
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 11:23:55 AM »
Well judging by the replies in older posts, a dyna system nets better starting, better warmups, and better mileage. All improvements, it does not have to always increase hp for it to be worth it.

Testimonials from purchasers are among the worst references for product integrity/usefulness.
1) Buyers always want their spent money to be of significant value, and wish for others to make the same choice they did as a reinforcement of their decision.  This has far more to do with human factors of self gratification than actual product benefit (which may or may not be real and why placebos are used in double blind testing).

2) The points that were replaced (in favor of the Dyna) for the user evaluation are almost never new or adjusted properly.  An easy argument can be made that the "improvements" attributed to the dyna would have also been to a proper set of points and adjustment.  An analog comparison is that the new tire I just installed works far better than the flat one that was on there, so the Brand/type I chose is clearly far superior to the old one.

3) Seldom are the points replaced by Dyna the ONLY change made to the bike.  If nothing else, the mere wiping action of a connector cycle improved the resistance through the electrical connections, and often coils and/or other tune up procedures were performed at the same time as the Dyna installation.  (Even if the spark gap was increased (improves mileage), do you say it was the spark gap that caused a mileage improvement or the increased gap?  Certainly, such an improvement was not entirely in the "Dyna change" domain, but it may have enabled the MPG improvement indirectly.)

If you actually did a thorough search you would have found an objective evaluation of the Dyna-s unit (Hondaman).  The findings were that it is a points replacement/ switch unit, and that it leaves the power applied to the coils far longer than the stock points do, resulting in a 60% power draw increase for each coil and is used to over-saturate the stock coils (meaning the extra power can't be used to improve spark).  The power draw is further increased with 3 ohm coils that Dyna hopes you buy from them also.  However, the Dyna-S alone does not a complete system make, and doesn't deserve the sole praise in a product testimonial.

Beyond the power use issues, the primary difference between the points system and the Dyna, is that the points degrade/change over time and use, due to the current flow across them, whereas the Dyna does not. For this, many people are willing to pay $100-$150 (and try to convince others to do the same.)
I expect battery replacement frequency and other electrical issues/costs are not factored in to the Dyna purchase decision or recommendation.  It is certainly rare to see any mention of these in posted testimonials.


Cheers,




Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2010, 11:48:32 AM »
Technically conventional is electronic. 
Technically, that depends on the definition you choose.
Points were certainly conventional at the time of manufacture.
In your view is the entire bike "unconventional"?   ???

The points are literally antique. 
You mean modern vehicles with integrated relays (uses points) are using antique components?

I don't think companies would blow billions designing a magnetic trigger system if it wasn't better and more reliable.
I don't think your innuendo supports your assertion as to why the mag trigger system was designed.  Particularly since the entire ignition system was revamped in concert with the trigger change.

Changing a switch type on the dash of the space shuttle doesn't make the entire vehicle safer to operate.
Quite often an increase in complexity actually reduces reliability, simply because more parts are available for a failure condition.

In light of your comments, I have to wonder why you would bother with the antique that is the SOHC4, and just upgrade to an entire new bike as it would certainly be "better and more reliable"?  ;D

Cheers, ;D ;D

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Old75_ratafe

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2010, 01:05:13 PM »
Well judging by the replies in older posts, a dyna system nets better starting, better warmups, and better mileage. All improvements, it does not have to always increase hp for it to be worth it.

Testimonials from purchasers are among the worst references for product integrity/usefulness.
1) Buyers always want their spent money to be of significant value, and wish for others to make the same choice they did as a reinforcement of their decision.  This has far more to do with human factors of self gratification than actual product benefit (which may or may not be real and why placebos are used in double blind testing).

2) The points that were replaced (in favor of the Dyna) for the user evaluation are almost never new or adjusted properly.  An easy argument can be made that the "improvements" attributed to the dyna would have also been to a proper set of points and adjustment.  An analog comparison is that the new tire I just installed works far better than the flat one that was on there, so the Brand/type I chose is clearly far superior to the old one.

3) Seldom are the points replaced by Dyna the ONLY change made to the bike.  If nothing else, the mere wiping action of a connector cycle improved the resistance through the electrical connections, and often coils and/or other tune up procedures were performed at the same time as the Dyna installation.  (Even if the spark gap was increased (improves mileage), do you say it was the spark gap that caused a mileage improvement or the increased gap?  Certainly, such an improvement was not entirely in the "Dyna change" domain, but it may have enabled the MPG improvement indirectly.)

If you actually did a thorough search you would have found an objective evaluation of the Dyna-s unit (Hondaman).  The findings were that it is a points replacement/ switch unit, and that it leaves the power applied to the coils far longer than the stock points do, resulting in a 60% power draw increase for each coil and is used to over-saturate the stock coils (meaning the extra power can't be used to improve spark).  The power draw is further increased with 3 ohm coils that Dyna hopes you buy from them also.  However, the Dyna-S alone does not a complete system make, and doesn't deserve the sole praise in a product testimonial.

Beyond the power use issues, the primary difference between the points system and the Dyna, is that the points degrade/change over time and use, due to the current flow across them, whereas the Dyna does not. For this, many people are willing to pay $100-$150 (and try to convince others to do the same.)
I expect battery replacement frequency and other electrical issues/costs are not factored in to the Dyna purchase decision or recommendation.  It is certainly rare to see any mention of these in posted testimonials.


Cheers,

OK I do have one thing to say on this TT and I am saying it respectfully not snottily  ;)  Granted other things are usually done with the dyna S conversion so tuning is better but are you trying to say to disregaurd all testimonials of people who use the dyna simply because they bought it and liked it over their old system?  I mean if u go down that road I need to disregaurd your testimony as well because you want your points to be better because you spend time and money on them.  Also for the record I got my setup for dirt cheap used and have had 0 issues.  (just my experience not everyone's)

As far as hondaman goes I have no doubt seeing his and your knowlage on these old bikes that his system is FAAARRR superior to both the dyna S and the stock points.
I would say the dyna "improvements" would be the same on a properly tuned stock system.  Difference is with the dyna they stay that way for a lot longer, its a tune once and forget system Vs. points maintainence to keep it in perfect tune of what every 1000 or so miles?

Lets face it most of us are lazy and don't do that.  We'd rather be ridding than adjusting for peak performance.  Prime example my bike I got because the owner put on a nice shinny new points when his died and fubar'd it.  I having no idea how to set them (at the time) put on a dyna plate, had it running in minutes and haven't touched it in 5 years.

Technically, that depends on the definition you choose.
Points were certainly conventional at the time of manufacture.
In your view is the entire bike "unconventional"?   ???

Tuche

The points are literally antique.
You mean modern vehicles with integrated relays (uses points) are using antique components?
I wasn't aware any modern vehicle (or engine) used a points trigger ignition system (aside from maybe a lawnmower).  Please explain what you mean by integrated relays, got me a little confused there.  I 'm not seeing the corilation between mechanical points and a low voltage magnetic trigger to high voltage relay ???

I don't think companies would blow billions designing a magnetic trigger system if it wasn't better and more reliable.
I don't think your innuendo supports your assertion as to why the mag trigger system was designed.  Particularly since the entire ignition system was revamped in concert with the trigger change.
Well it was created to reduce maintainence and to improve performance, although I admit the latter is debaitable.  It would not surprise me if a properly made and tuned points system could perform just as good or better than a magnetic trigger system.  But the question is if you put them both next to eachother which one would keep doing it longer without having to be retuned.

Changing a switch type on the dash of the space shuttle doesn't make the entire vehicle safer to operate.
Quite often an increase in complexity actually reduces reliability, simply because more parts are available for a failure condition. 
It does if its the oxygen supply and the new switch will be able to activate much more reliability with out fear of deteriorating in as many cycles because its made out of more stable materials.  Not to mention having to adjust the switch tolerances less thus removing the "operator" (human) error factor.

In light of your comments, I have to wonder why you would bother with the antique that is the SOHC4, and just upgrade to an entire new bike as it would certainly be "better and more reliable"?  ;D
Because there's something about these old bikes that I love the ticks, drips and noises. Just the rawness of them.  The fact that you can do modern upgrades on them but still keep their classic charactor as well.  These bikes are the grandfathers of the modern crotch rockets.  I can set my bike and a my bosses 2006 kawi 650 next to each other and see the evolution.  One very easy example cable clutch Vs. hydrolic she was amazed at the difference of engaugement Vs hers.  Compared to how our bikes and new ones handle how things engauge ect its more of an art to ride them.  The newer bikes nearly do it for you.  Takes some of the fun out of it.  I mean yea her 650 could run circles around me (smaller, better geometry, much lighter by almost 100 lbs, and more power with a smaller engine) but I have more fun doing it.

Cheers, ;D ;D

I'm loving this debate TT and I think we both bring some good points to the table on each side....  But we are seriously Hi-Jacking this thread is there any way we could get a mod to move our portion to like a Pro's and Con's of points Vs. magnetic trigger thread or something?  I'm sure there's not like a million of those already right  ;D
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2010, 02:08:10 PM »
I donno, when I bought my 78K it came with a "parts unknown" ignition (might be Prestolite) that has worked fine for 6000 miles that I've put on it. This pleases me to no end! It's not that I mind dealing with regular maintainance....but the less of it I have to do the better!`"set and forget" is fine with me! He!! if someone came out with a filter and oil that was garuanteed fer 100,000 miles I'd be on that like flies on suger! And would I jump right on a chain and sprocket combination that could go 100,000? ABSOFREAKINLOOTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At what point does a bike quit being a SOHC and start becoming a super bike? I can't answer that one, I'll leave it to the purists. But I'll take improvements that save me time & money in the long run!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 02:10:59 PM by Cuts Crooked »
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Offline Bodi

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2010, 07:15:57 AM »
The Dyna system eliminates the points and once the timing is set, you won't need to set ignition timing again as long as you own the bike. That's a decent improvement.
It has a downside as well, it definitely draws more electrical power than points. Also, according to Hondaman's research, the high RPM spark is actually weaker than with points - the data is here in the forums somewhere.
The Hondaman system uses the points as triggers. Since there is negligible power through them the contacts will last approximately forever. You should open the cover annually and lube the points cam, and the follower will eventually wear down a bit so checking the dwell and timing annually is a good idea. The electronics module gas proven itself reliable over a few years and I haven't heard of problems - but if it fails you can quickly remove it and just use the points as in the original ignition system.
I have a Martek ignition that works similarly to the Dyna but has an optical trigger rather than magnetic. When I first put it in I carried the original points plate with me for at least a year so i could keep riding should the Martek fail. It's been in there for 30 plus years and never hiccuped - I haven't even checked ignition timing in at least 10 years. But I still know exactly where that points plate is, although I haven't packed it with me for 30 years.

Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2010, 09:18:36 AM »
Quote
Testimonials from purchasers are among the worst references for product integrity/usefulness.
1) Buyers always want their spent money to be of significant value, and wish for others to make the same choice they did as a reinforcement of their decision.  This has far more to do with human factors of self gratification than actual product benefit (which may or may not be real and why placebos are used in double blind testing).

2) The points that were replaced (in favor of the Dyna) for the user evaluation are almost never new or adjusted properly.  An easy argument can be made that the "improvements" attributed to the dyna would have also been to a proper set of points and adjustment.  An analog comparison is that the new tire I just installed works far better than the flat one that was on there, so the Brand/type I chose is clearly far superior to the old one.

3) Seldom are the points replaced by Dyna the ONLY change made to the bike.  If nothing else, the mere wiping action of a connector cycle improved the resistance through the electrical connections, and often coils and/or other tune up procedures were performed at the same time as the Dyna installation.  (Even if the spark gap was increased (improves mileage), do you say it was the spark gap that caused a mileage improvement or the increased gap?  Certainly, such an improvement was not entirely in the "Dyna change" domain, but it may have enabled the MPG improvement indirectly.)

If you actually did a thorough search you would have found an objective evaluation of the Dyna-s unit (Hondaman).  The findings were that it is a points replacement/ switch unit, and that it leaves the power applied to the coils far longer than the stock points do, resulting in a 60% power draw increase for each coil and is used to over-saturate the stock coils (meaning the extra power can't be used to improve spark).  The power draw is further increased with 3 ohm coils that Dyna hopes you buy from them also.  However, the Dyna-S alone does not a complete system make, and doesn't deserve the sole praise in a product testimonial.

Beyond the power use issues, the primary difference between the points system and the Dyna, is that the points degrade/change over time and use, due to the current flow across them, whereas the Dyna does not. For this, many people are willing to pay $100-$150 (and try to convince others to do the same.)
I expect battery replacement frequency and other electrical issues/costs are not factored in to the Dyna purchase decision or recommendation.  It is certainly rare to see any mention of these in posted testimonials.
Well lets address this a little. I DID do the search here. I based my answer off the results I found here. Many of the people who reported better results with the S have been long term member of 4 or more years. I would think that you could respect their testimonials. And some of these have been using the stock coils too, not the 3 Ohm units.

I would also assume that these members know how to adjust points and so the misadjusted point theory you set forth is negated. Also, I do not recall any members stating that plug gap was increased, indeed with the S, I don't think it should be changed if using the stock coils anyways. So really all of your points are already met and discounted.
And indeed, if YOU did a search, you would find these testimonials from people who have had their sohc bikes just as long as you.

As for the hondaman tests and such, I DID read it and ultimately while he knows his honda stuff and may have done the test to what you think is your level, it is hard to weigh in favor of that against 20+ years of people using the S and having good results. These results don't jive with his tests.

I am not trying to be disrespectful here just disagreeing. I can provide the links to those pages so you can read it for yourself but a simple search would find many hits for you.

Offline david 750f

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2010, 09:21:10 AM »
Cuts Crooked, that is a Prestolite ignition.
1976 CB 750F

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Need More Juice Due To Accel Coils
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2010, 12:21:36 PM »
Well lets address this a little. I DID do the search here. I based my answer off the results I found here. Many of the people who reported better results with the S have been long term member of 4 or more years. I would think that you could respect their testimonials. And some of these have been using the stock coils too, not the 3 Ohm units.

I can easily believe you did do a search.  But, it was in a non-factual database.  Opinions may become popular, but popularity does not make a proof.
So, you are still basing your evaluation on heresay evidence, and many of those same people in your sample base have no knowledge of electronics or mechanics.  I think that invalidates your assessment.   I've been reading posts here for a long long while.  The trend I recognize of the Dyna -s "converts" is that they simply don't wish to adjust points anymore and find all sorts of "reasons" after the fact why it is better, above and beyond that primary fact.  The MPG improvement claim is especially onerous.  Your own example of "better warmups" is completely un-supportable with factual data that can be evaluated independently.
Popular vote does NOT rule physics and function.   I don't care how many people tell me their snake oil is supermolagafloptious.  If the physics and/or actual test data aren't there, it is an unproven assertion even if you find 1000 "believers" in the product, whether they be in a forum or not.

I would also assume that these members know how to adjust points and so the misadjusted point theory you set forth is negated.
In your dreams.  On what do you base that assumption?

The first rule of troubleshooting a problem is to NOT make assumptions or simply repeat the assumptions of others.  If their conclusion is wrong, then yours will likely be wrong, as well.
Basically, your "science" is flawed with the frailty of the human condition.  Humans make errors, physics and chemistry does not.
Castles made of sand fall to the sea.

Also, I do not recall any members stating that plug gap was increased, indeed with the S, I don't think it should be changed if using the stock coils anyways. So really all of your points are already met and discounted.
Another declaration without foundation.
While I agree that if you are using the 5 ohms coils the gap should not be increased, there have been many Dyna posts where three ohm coils or other lower ohm coils HAVE been used.   A change to lower ohm coils is without merit UNLESS the gap is increased to take advantage of the higher voltage potential available with these coils.  So, I observe your recollection has failed you. Kinda shows that your "research" is further flawed, explaining your misguided "bandwagon testimonial".

And indeed, if YOU did a search, you would find these testimonials from people who have had their sohc bikes just as long as you.
What does ownership time have to do with whether the Dyna S has all the extra fictitious "benefits" you claim they have?   Ownership time is not a "proof".  It is just added innuendo.
If YOU had done proper research you would have found that I have been a part of the Dyna s discussions all along.

As for the hondaman tests and such, I DID read it and ultimately while he knows his honda stuff and may have done the test to what you think is your level, it is hard to weigh in favor of that against 20+ years of people using the S and having good results. These results don't jive with his tests.
Scientific results with hard and verify-able data serve as proof of function in the realm of physics.  Human "feelings" have no such  defined parameters.  I'll take Hondaman's test data over 1000's of forum testimonials with no supportable data.

Anyway, you are reducing the argument to science vs. religion.  If you wish to worship at the altar of Dyna, that is your choice.  You can even become an evangelist or cult leader drawing followers to your cause.  But, the fact remains that physics rule the functional operation of things electrical and mechanical, and no matter how many people believe that Dyna will turn you bike into modern superbike, until there is hard evidence to make the case, it just has an electrical switch instead of a mechanical one.

You know, the Pope once threatened excommunication (and death) for people who thought (and could prove) that the earth wasn't the center of the universe.  So, there were lot's of "believers" that were wrong.  People haven't changed much since then, only the knowledge database has changed.

I am not trying to be disrespectful here just disagreeing.

Same here.   But, as easily as you wish to dismiss my arguments, I find yours even easier to dismiss.  You aren't going to convince me with whimsy.  Quite simply it is not quantity of the referenced reports, but the quality of the reports encountered that deserves attention.  Lastly, while many of these forum posts are rooted in sincerity, that does not automatically make them factual.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.