Author Topic: Man, you guys are going to kill me. (Read 41157 times)

scottly · « **Reply #75 on:** February 21, 2011, 09:21:46 PM »

Quote from: Sheik Yerbouti on February 21, 2011, 07:39:27 AM

Sheik, can you post specs on this motor? Sorry if you already have, but I don't check this thread as often as I should...

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #76 on:** February 21, 2011, 09:33:35 PM »

That's actually not my motor mount, just my inspiration. That motor is similar to mine, but capable of higher voltages. The specs are here:

http://evdrives.com/dd_motors_ES-15-6.html

scottly · « **Reply #77 on:** February 21, 2011, 10:21:10 PM »

"Similar to ADC k91". I think I may have torque/RPM graphs for this motor. This type of motor (series-wound) has a limited RPM range, with regards to power output and economy. To use them most efficiently over a wide range of conditions you will want to use a transmission.
It works backwards with DC motors; you will get the best economy revving the motor, as the back EMF limits the current, and the greatest acceleration, as well as the greatest current draw, at low motor revs.
The real state of the art is with brushless DC type motors, coupled with FET Pulse-width-modulated controllers, as well as variable-frequency AC induction motors. Actually, the lines between the two motor types have become a bit blurred recently...
It's a worthy project; keep working on it!

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #78 on:** February 22, 2011, 08:42:14 AM »

Quote from: scottly on February 21, 2011, 10:21:10 PM

"Similar to ADC k91". I think I may have torque/RPM graphs for this motor. This type of motor (series-wound) has a limited RPM range, with regards to power output and economy. To use them most efficiently over a wide range of conditions you will want to use a transmission.
It works backwards with DC motors; you will get the best economy revving the motor, as the back EMF limits the current, and the greatest acceleration, as well as the greatest current draw, at low motor revs.
The real state of the art is with brushless DC type motors, coupled with FET Pulse-width-modulated controllers, as well as variable-frequency AC induction motors. Actually, the lines between the two motor types have become a bit blurred recently...
It's a worthy project; keep working on it!

My motor is actually this one right here.

http://evdrives.com/dd_motors_ES-10E-33.html

Rated for 48v but happily handles 72v. The advantage of SepEx motors are described by Ted in his blog:

"Finally, you got your Sepex motors. Sepex means “separately exicted”, or that, well, I’m just going to rip a quote right from the Electric Motorsport page:
“Sepex motors are almost identical to traditional Series motors except for the way their field is wired and controlled. Unlike the Series motor whose armature and field windings are wired together in series, the SepEx motors field and armature windings are excited separately by special SepEx controllers that have wire leads to both the armature and the field. Separate control of the armature and field creates distinct advantages over a standard series wound motor, notably adjustable regenerative braking, higher rpm, longer power band, higher efficiency, and easy reversing.“ As far as I understand it, they’re also the top end of the efficiency range of any motor. You do, again, have a problematic “form factor” to wrestle with- maybe not a great solution for a small bike, but certainly workable for a bigger one.
With the Sevcon PowerPak controller, the D&D runs at 425 A, 84V, 25 hp, gives you 4500RPM and sells complete for around $1500. Honestly, it seems like a great price for a very versatile package- something you could set up to run easily, and then spend countless happy hours tweaking away to your heart’s content…"

MasterChief750 · « **Reply #79 on:** February 22, 2011, 08:52:21 AM »

Quote from: Sheik Yerbouti on February 21, 2011, 05:50:13 PM

Quote from: masterchief1112 on February 21, 2011, 05:15:21 PM
when i worked at my student newspaper there was a guy that converted his truck to electric. he created a plug and a bank of chargers to charge each pack separately. he said it cut down on charge time and it was cheaper becasue that big of a charger is expensive. ill look through my archives and see if i can find the article.

That solution works really well with SLA cells, and some lithium cells (cylindrical cells like Headway). The challenge for a motorcycle is fitting all those chargers onboard a tiny two-wheeled vehicle.

he had the chargers off of the vehicle. and a small one hooked up on the vehicle just in case so he could give it some juice to get home.

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #80 on:** February 22, 2011, 07:19:42 PM »

Hey guys I have a quick title question. My frame doesn't have the riveted plate with all the information on it, but the VIN is stamped onto the frame right (I can't tell, the bike's in my friend's garage)? Should I have any trouble getting a plate for it if those numbers match up?

Syscrush · « **Reply #81 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:22:39 AM »

Quote from: Sheik Yerbouti on February 22, 2011, 07:19:42 PM

Hey guys I have a quick title question. My frame doesn't have the riveted plate with all the information on it, but the VIN is stamped onto the frame right (I can't tell, the bike's in my friend's garage)? Should I have any trouble getting a plate for it if those numbers match up?

This will really, really depend on the procedure in your state, and possibly depend on the specific DOT agent you get when you go to the counter to get your plate.

Free Booter · « **Reply #82 on:** February 23, 2011, 07:31:56 AM »

Quote from: Ryan6838 on February 19, 2011, 10:28:44 PM

I know i know... lol its the tab that helps hold plastic at the front of the chain guard.

!? Don't you mean its the tab that holds the inner fender in place?

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #83 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:08:32 AM »

Quote from: Syscrush on February 23, 2011, 06:22:39 AM

Quote from: Sheik Yerbouti on February 22, 2011, 07:19:42 PM
Hey guys I have a quick title question. My frame doesn't have the riveted plate with all the information on it, but the VIN is stamped onto the frame right (I can't tell, the bike's in my friend's garage)? Should I have any trouble getting a plate for it if those numbers match up?
This will really, really depend on the procedure in your state, and possibly depend on the specific DOT agent you get when you go to the counter to get your plate.

MasterChief750 · « **Reply #84 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:11:11 AM »

ohio bmv wanted nothing to do with the plate and wanted to see the stamped vin.

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #85 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:33:50 AM »

Quote from: masterchief1112 on February 23, 2011, 09:11:11 AM

ohio bmv wanted nothing to do with the plate and wanted to see the stamped vin.

scroggins5000 · « **Reply #86 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:01:14 AM »

Probably depends on the state, but I don't think you need the plate if the frame is stamped. The powder coaters removed my VIN plate and stamped my frame. I'm pretty sure it wasn't stamped under the plate before I sent it out, but I could be wrong?

MasterChief750 · « **Reply #87 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:23:27 AM »

My 78 has plate on one side and stamped bin on the other side of the neck. If neither is on there you could most likely get a custom built title and they will either issue you a bin or go by the engine number. At least that's what they told me.

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #88 on:** February 25, 2011, 03:18:48 PM »

Did some quick CAD to make a motor mount. Will make a test piece out of plywood tomorrow and see how it fits.

Syscrush · « **Reply #89 on:** February 25, 2011, 07:43:17 PM »

Looks nice.

Zaipai · « **Reply #90 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:22:04 PM »

Did ya see this?

.: Scott :.

Raef · « **Reply #91 on:** February 28, 2011, 07:01:14 PM »

Got an e mail from hobby king announcing they are now carrying real a123 cell

desert rat racer · « **Reply #92 on:** February 28, 2011, 07:36:24 PM »

How much do you predict the cost per charge will be? Very interested in your project cant wait to see the end result!

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #93 on:** February 28, 2011, 09:54:12 PM »

My pack is so small so I imagine it couldn't cost more than 12 cents. I know a 40 mile per charge pack costs about 35 cents off peak hours.

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #94 on:** February 28, 2011, 09:59:44 PM »

Quote from: raef on February 28, 2011, 07:01:14 PM

Got an e mail from hobby king announcing they are now carrying real a123 cell

I just priced out a small pack. About 4000 bucks. That doesn't include charging and balancing. Ouch.

Raef · « **Reply #95 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:42:00 AM »

Quote from: Sheik Yerbouti on February 28, 2011, 09:59:44 PM

Quote from: raef on February 28, 2011, 07:01:14 PM
Got an e mail from hobby king announcing they are now carrying real a123 cell

I just priced out a small pack. About 4000 bucks. That doesn't include charging and balancing. Ouch.

I'm no electro wiz, but I knew it would be a little pricey @ $10 per cell but WOW I had know idea.

How many you stacking, series, parallel?

Syscrush · « **Reply #96 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:24:23 AM »

Quote from: Zaipai on February 28, 2011, 06:22:04 PM

Did ya see this?

Wow. That looks really awful - and keeping the gearbox has its ups and downs. My audio at home is broken - does he give any indication of how well it works?

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #97 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:34:19 AM »

Quote from: raef on March 01, 2011, 04:42:00 AM

Quote from: Sheik Yerbouti on February 28, 2011, 09:59:44 PM
Quote from: raef on February 28, 2011, 07:01:14 PM
Got an e mail from hobby king announcing they are now carrying real a123 cell

I just priced out a small pack. About 4000 bucks. That doesn't include charging and balancing. Ouch.
I'm no electro wiz, but I knew it would be a little pricey @ $10 per cell but WOW I had know idea.

How many you stacking, series, parallel?

Lithium cells are about 3.2 volts nominal, so to create what most people refer to as a 72 volt pack, you need 24 of them in series. They're usually 2300mAH, meaning 2.3 amp hours. A reasonable pack would be about 40 amp hours to make a 20 to 30 mile pack (these are all just guestimates and generalities). So that means I would need 24x20 cells to make a pack big enough. But A123 cells are remarkably high quality and have a very long life. Not to mention they can discharge insane amounts compared to cheaper lithium prismatics.

Sheik Yerbouti · « **Reply #98 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:36:14 AM »

Quote from: Syscrush on March 01, 2011, 05:24:23 AM

Quote from: Zaipai on February 28, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Did ya see this?
Wow. That looks really awful - and keeping the gearbox has its ups and downs. My audio at home is broken - does he give any indication of how well it works?

Very good (and controversial) point. There's been fights over this one, but the general answer to whether or not to keep the gearbox is that the weight, friction, and complexity of a gearbox actually degrades performance considering the space a gearbox consumes could be used for more batteries. The answer to more speed is to get more powerful motors and feed them even higher voltages.

Raef · « **Reply #99 on:** March 01, 2011, 08:16:23 AM »

unless he is planning to use the bike as a tow truck, I would have started closer to direct drive. it seems to be a very low RPM motor or very underpowered

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Author Topic: Man, you guys are going to kill me. (Read 41157 times)