Topic: Bessie, my first rebuild: 78 CB750F3 (Back on the road 2016-05-12)

[wohali]

My media blaster enclosure plans are posted.

[brandEn]

Joan, you are a woman of many talents. Is there anything you can't do? lol. Nice set up there!

[wohali]

Thanks! This is why, amongst other things, progress has been slow for a week or so. Had to get this built...and get the assorted bits and pieces for the compressor, too.

More pics coming later today.

[brandEn]

slow is good. Take your time and think it all out. Thats what helps me. Its when I get in a rush that stuff starts going south!

[HedNut]

Hey Hey!!  I just finally stumbled upon your build... didn't know you had one going! Very exciting stuff here... it's a great pleasure and totally respectable to see a lady rippin' into one of these.   And it looks like you have some wicked skillz!   Lovin' the blaster cabinet.
Cheers!

[wohali]

Thanks guys! As always huge thanks to doozer (partner, not on this forum) who helped out with the blaster cabinet build.

Going to get to those new photos in a bit...need to get out of the office first!

[GammaFlat]

I may buy the Z1 part but my time is at a premium...what I don't get done by next Friday, will probably have to wait until February Also Hondaman's text is wrong, he says the tool is $8. I only see it on Z1 Enterprises' website at $42...    

Blasphemy! There are 2 tools at the Z1 site (see below) and there is an "$8 tool" as HondaMan suggests.  I made the same mistake and before I found out about the "real deal", I ordered one from Cyclexchange.net for $20 shipped - DOH!  Oh well.  

Any updates on the project? - I like the blast cabinet.... need one.  

Here's the $7.71 version:
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2867


Here's the $42 version
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2161

[wohali]

Aha! I missed that link.

Good news is that the guy down the street from me lent me his for free ($20 deposit refunded). Was pretty happy about that. Sure beats $8 plus shipping to Canada!

More posts this weekend; I'm currently out of town so there will be a 2-3 week lull but I have some data backlogged I want to get in front of you guys.

[wohali]

Update!

I kicked my own ass out to the workshop tonight. Lots of new findings, mostly good.

Checked out the entire electrical system tonight as well. I now know why cylinder 3 wasn't firing. The spark plug cap is an open circuit. Based on comments from the previous owner I think it must have failed before I got it. I also have a failed rectifier - all 6 diodes seem to be shot in the forward direction. Though this is a restoration, I'll probably go with a modern rectifier just to increase reliability. Other parts have been cleaned up and test out fine, including the regulator, starter solenoid, coils, other 3 spark plug caps, wires and alternator coils:

Coil # (stock)	Primary winding	Secondary winding
2-3	4.35 Ω	14,440 Ω
1-4	4.30 Ω	14,640 Ω

Spark plug cap resistance (Ω)
1: 4700
2: 5480
3: open circuit!
4: 4910

Points capacitors (μF)
Top: 0.242
Bottom: 0.250

Alternator coils (Ω)
Field coil: 5.70
Stator Coils:
  1-2: 0.55
  2-3: 0.55
  1-3: 0.55
  Open circuit between all coils and the core (good)

I also disassembled the entire front end - wheel, brakes, speedo/tach, handlebars, triple fork, etc. Opened up the forks and poured out the oil - I won't tell you what it reminded me of, but what a horrid, foul smelling combination of pink and brown. I'm going to replace it with PJ1 10W oil, I think; shop down the street sells some reasonably priced. Will measure up the spring length tomorrow; judging from the quantity of oil that came out (nowhere near 7oz) I am worried these springs have suffered greatly over the past 30+ years.

Next up: I will post those findings from the spark gap advancer teardown, some more photos of works in progress, and an update on the parts of the engine due back from the shop on Friday. (I had new valve seats cut to match new Cycle-X valves, new valve guides installed, completion of media blasting on the head, and damage to crankcase repaired and filed down.)

[UK Pete]

Great stuff Wohali, your bike will be as good as new , especially with your attention to every little bit, keep up the good work
Pete

[wohali]

Cleaned and POR-15ed the tank today. The tank was full of an amazing amount of rust.....99% of which came out. The POR-15 should hopefully seal in the rest. I was very, very careful to follow all instructions, so I'm hoping it seals well. Only time will tell!

[david 750f]

Just found your build thread. I'm in Toronto as well. If your still looking for fasteners Pacific Fasteners in Etobicoke is much cheaper than Brafasco. (about 1/3 the price).

Good luck with the build!!!

http://www.pacificfasteners.com/

[wohali]

Thanks! Definitely going to check them out.

Tank is looking very, very nice. Going to spend a bunch more time tomorrow working on the machine, I think. Will be my last "totally free" day for a while.

[brandEn]

I am curious to see how your POR-15 turned out. Mine failed and started bubbling up after a few days. I think because the way the F tank is shaped I could not drain all the excess liner out and the thicker pooled areas is what failed. If I had to do it over I would probably let it cure with the tank resting upside down so the excess liner gravitated towards the top of the tank. Keep us posted for sure. Plus when I did mine it was about 30 deg F in the garage and this probably didn't help at all.

[wohali]

It's been about 24h now and it looks fine. I won't be putting fuel in until the weekend, so I'll check on it daily and report back here.

For what it's worth, tonight looking inside the tank with a flashlight and a dental mirror, the sides, top, and centre ridge look great. The bottoms on the left and right side had some rust that wouldn't all come out, even with repeated treatment/rinses. I can see the texture there under the aluminum POR-15 coat. I'm hoping the extra surface area helps!

Temperature is a big deal on this stuff according to the manufacturer - the additional documentation I read said it is best at 72F, but only recommended between 50 and 90 F.

After drying the inside of the tank with a heat gun, the tank was at about 110F per my IR thermometer. It cooled off very quickly to the ambient temp in the workshop, about 65F with the heater on.

After draining the POR15 thru the petcock for about 2 hours, and diligently doing so (the lip on the petcock drain makes it hard to get the last little bit out, so you really have to swish it around) I probably had 1/4 of the can unused. If you had less you definitely didn't get enough out.

[wohali]

Big status update, with LOTS of new pictures. One pic per topic pasted below, lots more at the links:

8] Cylinders honed up really nicely. Based on this I ended up doing a custom order of 5 sets of cast iron rings from Total Seal, rather than move up to 836 just yet. I have one extra set unclaimed if someone wants it.



9) Coated the tank with POR-15 and it turned out great. I took every precaution. Top 3 suggestions: prep with both chemicals as recommended, keep it warm, spend at least an hour draining it out before setting it to dry. I didn't fully remove all rust before coating, but based on the results, I'm convinced the coat was a good thing.

Be sure to check out the gallery; I actually managed to get photos inside the damn tank.



10) GOODIES! ffjmoore sold me a bunch of new-old-stock F2/F3 parts where I had some wear or damage from the PO. Glamour shot below: NOS muffler with only 22 miles on it. Link also has pics of the speedo; PO seems to have swapped in an older year. Magically I have a higher redline now.



11) Gord Bush Performance did an amazing job repairing/retrofitting on my cylinder head and engine crankcases. I had him repair chain damage near where the countersprocket sits, rebuild two holes missing there with aluminum fill and helicoils, remove a busted stud (he installed a helicoil there too), replace the valve guides, and resurface the cylinder head. Below is how beautiful your head can look:



And here's my attempt at MRieck's avatar:



12) For Hondaman: you asked for pics of the rear brake. Here they are. Haven't yet rebuilt it; will do so shortly, when the new brake lines arrive.

13) Fully cleaned and reassembled the transmission. This is only half the pics. Since I couldn't get my hands on any red assembly grease, I'm using white lithium. (I'm worried about my black moly grease gumming up the oil pump.)

I noticed on this F3 that the bushings for 2 of the three free-spinning gears on the countershaft are flanged, with the flange acting as a thrust washer. I also noticed that those bushings have 2 oiling holes in them, but the shaft only has one drilled through it. I spent about 30 minutes trying to drill a second set of oiling holes in the transmission shaft before I gave up. No bit I have is strong enough to go through. Below you can see a picture of one of the holes; the one on the left side is 180 degrees offset from this one.



I also have some worn dogs on C3...does this look horrible to anyone? I am thinking I can get away with it.



On deck for this week: big lot of parts coming in from Honda, cleaning the rest of the engine up, painting with POR-15 + Blackote, Gordon frame kit.

[wohali]

Mating surface looks OK, no worn surfaces...just the expected wear on the sections in-between the holes (scraped up, a little silver looking).

Glad to know that it looks ok! I filed a little bit down to make it flatter, where there was a minor groove in the face. Other than that, I think it'll be fine, it fits nicely.

Putting in the SKF bearing order with Canada Bearings today, most likely. Decided I might as well replace the bearings since I'm in there now. Too bad no one in Canada carries the front/rear All Balls kit. Putting in the steering bearing order with BMW shortly; they can order from Parts Canada, who in turn bring the steering bearing kit ONLY up here...

[wohali]

Massive progress this week. Other than painting the jugs, head and cover, the engine is ready to go back together. Gordon frame kit mostly welded in place, just have a few more joints to finish up. Lots of pictures backlogged to share. Everything has come in for parts except for the 5mm carb adapters I want for tuning, a new battery, and some of the ancillary plastic bits from Honda that are backordered (bleeder cap covers, indicator cap, etc.)

Main roadblock to finishing is getting time to head over to the chroming place in town to get the exhaust manifold re-chromed, along with the headlight ears and fender.

I think I'm on track to have Bessie back on the road before end of this month!

[kap384@telus.net]

Glad to hear about all the progress.  Sounds like its getting close!

[tango911]

thats going to be one sweet running ride!!

[wohali]

Teaser update. HVLP gun + POR-15 Engine Enamel + all the proper safety gear, sprayed on tonight, should look AWESOME when not being photographed with a flash:



My rebuild is lagging a bit behind because of yard work and house guests last weekend, plus long nights at work this week. I expect the engine to spring to life in the next couple of days.

[KB02]

My rebuild is lagging a bit behind because of yard work and house guests last weekend, plus long nights at work this week. I expect the engine to spring to life in the next couple of days.

House Guests and Fish - They both tend to stink after three days.   

I'm a late comer to your thread but things are looking great. Can't wait to see it done!!

[Zaipai]

Its looking great, can't wait to see it all together, however I am sure you can't wait either, and more so then I..

.: Scott :.

[wohali]

In April, I managed to get the engine back together:


You can view the entire gallery here. I also show how the new Total Seal rings are filed-to-fit and installed, for those who have bought a set.

Tips:

1. Go slow.
2. If you feel like you're forcing something, i.e., using more force than a rubber mallet or your hands, stop and read the Honda manuals or Hondaman's book for 15 minutes. Then, try again, not using any more force, instead using what you just learned.
3. Buy new 12.9 hex-head bolts screws for the engine covers. Your metric Allen key will become your best friend very quickly, as will a bottle of Permatex Copper anti-seize.
4. 400 grit or higher sandpaper won't ruin mating surfaces if you sand for a very short period of time (15-30s).
5. Tea FTW.
6. Double and triple check the manuals and fiche when it comes to torque values, washer orientation , assembly order and part locations.
7. Love your HVLP spray paint gun and a compressor.

Gordon frame kit installation almost done. Pictures will be posted once the arc welding is complete - it's been challenging avoiding voids, but now that I'm this far into it, might as well finish it without going TIG.

I also disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled the original shocks. Springs are worn more than spec, but should be OK for a few thou more miles before replacement.

Next up: Gordon Frame Kit final photos, frame refinishing, first engine test, and wheel bearing replacement.

[GammaFlat]

You can view the entire gallery here. I also show how the new Total Seal rings are filed-to-fit and installed, for those who have bought a set.

Excellent pictures!

3. Buy new 12.9 hex-head bolts. Your metric Allen key will become your best friend very quickly, as will a bottle of Permatex Copper anti-seize.

On which threads are you using anti-seize?  Head bolts only?  Others?