Author Topic: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts  (Read 33062 times)

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Offline petescb

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2010, 03:27:14 PM »
I had a '78 750F2 which I modded and liked a lot.  A Z1 of any year was a faster and better-looking bike, at least better than any 750K model.  I'd get a Z1.  They're just cool.

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2010, 05:11:34 PM »
Why thanks for calling me an idiot.....never been called one here (uranidiot) King of Custom Cycles guy. Really, a first time for everything. I said I have both, I've ridden for 40+ years and think I'm qualified to make that statement. I've got a twin-disc Suzuki that is literally brand new and it's brakes aren't as good as the Z1's. Where did you get your scientific data?

King, go here and read the 1973 Superbike shoot-out, you'll see that the H2's and Z1's both had great braking. I lived with these bikes, restore them, study them, and feel I've at least got an educated opinion. I don't appreciate your insult.

Gordon

http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/articles/1973%20Superbikes/superbikes1.htm


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Offline jakecb420

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2010, 05:48:44 PM »


ilbikes, is that your showroom? absolutely incredible. how does one go about acquiring all of those beauties. must be taking a lifetime.
750K3 daily driver
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74 CB450 donor
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73 cb500-4
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=73724.0

Offline bwaller

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2010, 06:26:31 PM »
Hey Gordon when I read your piece I was going to respond that it was probably the absolute truth in every way.

So I refuse to go back & see what kind of crap it raised from someone who probably doesn't know any better.

Turn the other cheek man it's all you can do.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 07:18:50 PM »
Hey Gordon when I read your piece I was going to respond that it was probably the absolute truth in every way.

So I refuse to go back & see what kind of crap it raised from someone who probably doesn't know any better.

Turn the other cheek man it's all you can do.

+1

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
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Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 07:55:53 PM »
Jake, yes these are some of the 30+ I've restored in the last 10 years. The referenced CB750 and KZ900 are among these.

I'm out of space so now it's sell one/get one. I look for something unusual now and enjoy the research into what makes each special.

Regards, Gordon




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Offline kerryb

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 08:11:21 PM »
Wow!.....
intrigued by the wail...seduced by the scream.

Offline ekpent

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 08:18:56 PM »
Hey Ibikes have you got a computer virtual tour of your collection posted anywhere ? I for one would like to take a look around,great looking diversified collection. Think I have read that the Boss Maroon 74 750 pictured has some nice goodies under the hood.Keep up the fine work.    Eric

Offline jneuf

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 09:34:05 PM »
Jake, yes these are some of the 30+ I've restored in the last 10 years. The referenced CB750 and KZ900 are among these.

I'm out of space so now it's sell one/get one. I look for something unusual now and enjoy the research into what makes each special.

Regards, Gordon




my '74 750 is originally boss maroon metallic...I'm still debating on colours, however, everytime I see a boss maroon bike it sways me back in that direction a little...nice bike.

On another note, I rode my 550K to the gym once this summer, and an older guy I know walked out with me and we got to talking about bikes..he was telling me about his old kawsaki triple that he used to race which he still has tucked away in his garage...said the bike was scary fast, but only in a straight line! he said there was no way he should still be alive after riding that thing the way he did...
'75 CB400f

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2010, 09:32:05 AM »
Jesus, riding his Honda, would not call someone an idiot  ;)
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2010, 12:06:37 PM »
I sin less, but am not sinless, but yet, forgiven.

Offline neil10

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2010, 09:46:50 PM »
My z1 was always out of tune, the cb always ran well

Offline voxonda

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2010, 12:09:29 AM »
Had a accident with my tuned CB back in '78 when I joined the army. Highsided due to dieselfuel left on the road. Build the bike up and got accident which nearly cost me an eye, due to glass in it. Was so fed up I sold the bike :-[ :-[ I then bought a brandnew Z1000Z1R. Very neat looking bike but never got the handling right. Put it on Koni shocks, Michelin PZ2 tires, rebuild the total front, nothing worked. Had more torque than the old lady but the Honda was faster on top! Sold the kwacker within a year in favour of the Honda 900 Bol d'or and kept that for 21 years only to go into business with the CB750 once again. IMHO the CB is the 'mother of all superbikes" and there has never been a bike since that had so much influence on the whole community.

Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline Bakes

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2010, 12:55:30 PM »
This is reminiscent of the endless Ford - vs - Chevy debate.

One aspect of this thread I found particularly intersting was the horror stories pertaining to the novice rider : superbike deadly combination. Being in the sales end of the industry for many many years, it NEVER ceased to amaze me the number of 18, 19, and 20 year old kids that would come in and hand me their credit application that MOM and DAD co-signed for the R6s or CBR600s, GSX-R600s, or ZX-6Rs.  First bike - the most powerful 600 class rocket on the street. Huh?!!

Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the mandatory insurance the bank required was $2,000 / year?!!! Hmmmm.....do you think it may have something to do with your age, riding experience, and the nature of "the beast" you're about to sign for?

Honestly guys, I did my best to try and talk them into something a bit more tame. EVERY time. "Did you ever think of a nice cruiser?" But common sense is no match for testosterone and ego. Testosterone and ego always  prevailed.

It brings back many memories of the insurance claims that started in the parking lot as little Johhny wadded his new bike in our parking lot because he was grossly outgunned.

Now that I'm on the parts side of the equation, and maybe I'm biased, but i find Z1, 900 and 1000 parts a WHOLE heck of alot easier to find than the CB750s. Honda seems to be a little more protective of their patents and the results are a much narrower network for aftermarket parts. It's a facet of our business that we are constantly trying to improve/develop - but like everyhting else - good things take time.

Thanks for the opportunity to share my two cents fellas.

Bakes
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Offline Gearheadgreg

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2010, 05:11:28 PM »
Now that I'm on the parts side of the equation, and maybe I'm biased, but i find Z1, 900 and 1000 parts a WHOLE heck of alot easier to find than the CB750s. Bakes...? been in the market this last month for a Z1...resto bike project, can't seem to find any reasonable priced... not sure what you consider easy to find ? parts or bikes, just lost a basket case Z1 here in RI a week ago,,did not know how hard this bike was to find,,if you have any leads for a Z1 that needs a lot of TLC let me know,Thanks,,,all i seem to find is Museum bikes like this>http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/mcy/2079101246.html
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 05:27:05 PM by Gearheadgreg »
2001 Honda Supercharged Valkyrie   <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/meloafer/embed/slideshow/"></iframe> Just having some fun

Offline 72 yellow

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2010, 06:37:10 PM »
This is reminiscent of the endless Ford - vs - Chevy debate.

One aspect of this thread I found particularly intersting was the horror stories pertaining to the novice rider : superbike deadly combination. Being in the sales end of the industry for many many years, it NEVER ceased to amaze me the number of 18, 19, and 20 year old kids that would come in and hand me their credit application that MOM and DAD co-signed for the R6s or CBR600s, GSX-R600s, or ZX-6Rs.  First bike - the most powerful 600 class rocket on the street. Huh?!!

Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the mandatory insurance the bank required was $2,000 / year?!!! Hmmmm.....do you think it may have something to do with your age, riding experience, and the nature of "the beast" you're about to sign for?

Honestly guys, I did my best to try and talk them into something a bit more tame. EVERY time. "Did you ever think of a nice cruiser?" But common sense is no match for testosterone and ego. Testosterone and ego always  prevailed.

It brings back many memories of the insurance claims that started in the parking lot as little Johhny wadded his new bike in our parking lot because he was grossly outgunned.

Now that I'm on the parts side of the equation, and maybe I'm biased, but i find Z1, 900 and 1000 parts a WHOLE heck of alot easier to find than the CB750s. Honda seems to be a little more protective of their patents and the results are a much narrower network for aftermarket parts. It's a facet of our business that we are constantly trying to improve/develop - but like everyhting else - good things take time.

Thanks for the opportunity to share my two cents fellas.

Bakes
Z1 Enterprises
CS Guy, BS Artist

Almost as bad is the old guys now who decide to have one more childhood and buy their first motorcycle.  It usually means a 1500cc metric cruiser or a H-D full dresser.  The end result is about the same.

Offline 754

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2010, 07:09:52 PM »
 Killer bikes have been around for about a century...
 The names change with the years, but they have always been there...

 Do i drive a car.. hell no.. :o.. I know people that got killed in them.... :o
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Jeff.Saunders

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2010, 06:20:50 AM »
There's some 'interesting' comments in the thread.

Parts availability - you can get FAR more for the Z1 than the CB750 SOHC's.  To the point you can almost build a replica bike from all the parts.

The bikes are very different.
I would agree the CB750 is a smooth running engine.  But very tame compared to the Z1.  The Z1 has a very agressive power delivery in stock form, and when tuned, capable of running serious numbers through the 1/4 mile.  My old Z1 with 410 cams, 10.5:1 pistons and 4-1 exhaust would run 11.3 at 120mph - and was used as everyday transport.  The closest any of the performance street Honda bikes (810cc) came to that was low 12's.

Handling is not great on the Z1 unless you brace the frame and put on serious rear shocks - but with relatively minor frame tweaks the Z1 handles fine up to 130mph.  

The Z1 held many speed records in the day - shattered the 24 hour speed record at Daytona in 1973 averaging around 110mph for the 24 hours.    Yvon DuHamel ran a lap of 160mph with a 'mildly' modified Z1.  
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2007/May/may15-20/may1607z1daytonavideo/

Ease of maintenance - you can remove the Z1 head in the frame - try that with a CB750...
Shims versus tappets.  The shims will take a little longer to change - and yes, you need a collection of them - but they work well.

The Z1 crank is incredibly tough.  While it is a 'push together' roller crank, once welded the stock crankshaft rods are good for double or triple the stock HP - certainly not something you'd get from stock Honda rods.

Z1 top-ends need to be gone through around 40,000-50,000 miles - the cam chain idler sprockets and cam chain need to be replaced at that point.  The crank will keep going for 100,000+ miles  It's rare to find Z1's with bad cranks.

They are both very collectable these days.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 06:22:52 AM by Jeff.Saunders »

Offline Jeff.Saunders

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2010, 06:39:11 AM »
Russ Collins was able to make some SOHC engines go very fast.  His old triple engined drag race bike ran some incredible numbers back in the day.  That was one of the most impressive pieces of engineering.  I used to have a large poster of that bike in my bedroom back in the 70's....

Offline Stev-o

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Offline KRONUS0100

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2010, 12:53:25 PM »
my buddy bought a kz1000 a few years ago...had been erbuilt with a big bore kit. I rode it twice...it scared the crap out of me.  did not like the way it felt, handled, or sat.  Brakes were awesome tho.
MATT
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Offline HawaiiMike

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2010, 08:56:47 PM »
I like the DOHC on the Kawasaki.  Top end noise on the Hondas doesn't sound as cool. 

Another thing, after spending months fixing up my CB550 and seemingly encountering a million problems, it seems like Kawasaki's are just simpler bikes.  Maybe it's my imagination.

Happy New Year!

Offline 754

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2010, 09:27:01 PM »
Up till just now I had forgotten that I had ridden a 900 Kaw, actually owned one.. a chopper.. :o

 Yeah it went pretty good, but it never charged so I ran total loss.. I did not have reggie, but rode it, am thinking I took my Honda chopper plate and used that?
 
 Rode it part of a season, then dealt it off.. got it from a buddy that was suddenly deported.. :o.. immigration caught him..
 It had a Santee gooseneck fram with a plunger rear, quite a bit of rake.. rode pretty good though..

 Never rode a stocker..

 Some of you got to remember this;
 We had a group of guys, that was mostly 750 4s, and a superglide..no Z-1s.. even though one of the guys put 40 K on his 70 Kawi triple.(rode it sometimes). but we NEVER rode with Z-1s..
 And there was a group of Z-1 riders... and they mostly rode just Kawis...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline fisjon

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2011, 09:05:16 AM »
I had a CB750K1 in 1972, it was one of the one's with the faulty gear selector and kept jumping out of 4th gear at 90mph when on full throttle, which was most of the time. By the time I realised it was a fault and not me the engine was ruined and it took the local Honda dealer 3months to get it back on the road. Was never the same after that, never came on the cam like it did before it was rebuilt. So a new bike with a crap engine, not good, Honda UK did'nt want to know and my exhausts had rotted while hanging up in the damp Honda workshop. Not impressed but did 19,000 miles on it before trading in for a GT750K Suzuki. Now there is a bike to compare with. It handled better than the CB750, went faster, was smoother and did more to the gallon than my CB, I was impressed.
In the meantime my buddy got knocked off his Vespa 180 (sorry) by a woman backing out of her drive, he spent 18 months laid up then when he got better he used some of his compo to buy a Z1 900. And he let me have a go. Phew! did it all, nothing else to say, except that I would still love to have my old CB750k1, warts and all right now.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: cb 750 versus z1 900 any thoughts
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2011, 03:56:14 PM »
I had a CB750K1 in 1972, it was one of the one's with the faulty gear selector and kept jumping out of 4th gear at 90mph when on full throttle, which was most of the time. By the time I realised it was a fault and not me the engine was ruined and it took the local Honda dealer 3months to get it back on the road. Was never the same after that, never came on the cam like it did before it was rebuilt. So a new bike with a crap engine, not good, Honda UK did'nt want to know and my exhausts had rotted while hanging up in the damp Honda workshop. Not impressed but did 19,000 miles on it before trading in for a GT750K Suzuki. Now there is a bike to compare with. It handled better than the CB750, went faster, was smoother and did more to the gallon than my CB, I was impressed.
In the meantime my buddy got knocked off his Vespa 180 (sorry) by a woman backing out of her drive, he spent 18 months laid up then when he got better he used some of his compo to buy a Z1 900. And he let me have a go. Phew! did it all, nothing else to say, except that I would still love to have my old CB750k1, warts and all right now.

WOW, your 750 must have been a real pig if you thought that the Suzuki handled better, those Suzuki's weren't much better than the H1 Kawasaki's when it came to handling.....Seen lots of 750/4 race bikes but not many water bottles....

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.