Topic: Opinions on chain rubbing case near front sprocket

[maxspeed140]

Hello all, I am replacing the sprockets on my 77F. The bike has 17k on it and although the PO's must have stored it inside, and kept it clean, I'm finding a lot of the original 34 year old stuff is there, ie, original brake pads, carb gaskets, etc. The chain appears to be a 630 non o-ring which I believe is original equipment for it. I purchased a non o-ring tsubaki. The below picture shows a scrape along the case, and is less than 1/64th inch, barely there. Also there is a little piece of metal sticking out, not sure if it is a case seam or not, but I am not leaking any oil. Just wondering is this normal, what would cause this, and any actions I may need to do. Also the tsubaki chain came with a clip, and a master link. On one end of the clip is open, and the 2 sentence instructions say to place the closed end of the clip in the direction of the rotation. This means closed end of clip going counter clockwise. Is this correct? Thanks in advance.

[Kevin400F]

Think of the master link as a fish...the closed end is the head, the open end is the tail.  It should "swim" head first......

Ok, maybe it's the beer talking....but that's the way I remember it.

Kevin in TX

(enjoying a few "Victoria" beers, a recent import from Mexico into our Houston-area market)

[maxspeed140]

Ok beer or no beer, that makes sense!    Still wondering about the rubbing of the chain against the case.

[MCRider]

Kevin: great explanation... fishhead. 

[Old Scrambler]

I think we are still fishing...........lets clean up the swingarm and other grime for a better look.........Its a very nice pic that seems to show a rub-through or just some wrong-way dimensional grime at the lower inside of sprocket cavity. Since this is the first time for you to press the master-link together, did you get the clip to seat in the pin grooves?  Did you replace the sprocket and install it correctly? For that matter, do you have the correct sprocket?  Only K7-8 and F2-3 will fit.

[maxspeed140]

Old scrambler, this is how I discovered it after removing the chain and sprocket that the previous owner had on there. I haven't installed anything yet. It was covered in a red mess that looked to be mixture of rust that had mixed with chain lube. I measured the chain deflection before removing it, and it looked to be within the spec. The sprocket did look really old, as well as the chain. For all I know it was original. The red grunge on the swing arm is some of it and is probably the lube after being on the rusty chain for awhile.

[Toxic]

Well you have the master link on right but there should be no rubbing.
Is there movement of the shaft the sprocket mounts on?
Mine doesn't move in and out at all, which I think is normal.
The sprocket will move laterally about one mm but the shaft itself shouldn't move.

While I am embarassed to admit it, I once when I was not paying attention, installed the link wrong.
I had put the plate that goes on the outside on the inside effectively making the masterlink on the inside twice as thick as it should have been.  
So in otherwords I had the clip on the chain without the plate behind it .
I noticed it right away when I rotated the wheel to test but it did rub on the inside.  There I said it.

[maxspeed140]

I just went to the garage and checked out the sprocket (driven) shaft, as well as the play with the old sprocket reinstalled. Toxic, the shaft doesn't have any play or movement in it. The sprocket has like yours does, about 1 mm in out free play. What I did notice though thanks to your admission! was that the old chain has the master link on the inside towards the sprocket instead of towards the swingarm. I didn't take the chain off through the master link, I just thought I did. Let me explain. When I looked for the master link, on the outside of the chain, I saw a link with a clip. I pry ed the clip out from the link, not to the right. I just looked at the chain and I see that I broke the clip, it was one piece not open on one end. SO, two things must be going on here:1. The chain markings show it as an RK 630S chain, and the PO must have purchased the wrong size, or cut it to fit. When he did this he must have used a link to connect it. 2. I'm thinking I'm owing Toxic a beer next time he gets down here  

[MCRider]

Some clips are made such that there is the traditional closed end and the other end, is split but the split ends come completely together and give the apperance they wrap completely around the pin. If there wasn't a split somewhere you'd never be able to get it on. But they are not really designed to go on and off repeatedly. The first install will stress the clip a little. The first removal destroys the clip.

[bollingball]

Toxic: Somethings you just go to the grave with 

[cobrajunkie]

Some clips are made such that there is the traditional closed end and the other end, is split but the split ends come completely together and give the apperance they wrap completely around the pin. If there wasn't a split somewhere you'd never be able to get it on. But they are not really designed to go on and off repeatedly. The first install will stress the clip a little. The first removal destroys the clip.

Really?  The first time you remove the clip, you destroy it?  I did not know that.

[fastbroshi]

I thought the oe chain was a 530?

[MCRider]

I thought the oe chain was a 530?

630 = 77/78 Ks and Fs.  OP has a 77F.

[Doggie]

You know while I was reading this, I was thinking that I just bought a 530 chain for my bike. That might be the problem   Doug

[Doggie]

now i'm confused..I have a '76 CB550F   Doug

[MCRider]

Some clips are made such that there is the traditional closed end and the other end, is split but the split ends come completely together and give the apperance they wrap completely around the pin. If there wasn't a split somewhere you'd never be able to get it on. But they are not really designed to go on and off repeatedly. The first install will stress the clip a little. The first removal destroys the clip.

Really?  The first time you remove the clip, you destroy it?  I did not know that.

If its the clip style I describe. There are other clips with one end closed and the other end has an obvious opening gap between the ends of the 2 tangs of the clip. These can often be pushed off with little damage. However, its another stress cycle and the recommendation is to always use a new clip regardless of style.

[MCRider]

now i'm confused..I have a '76 CB550F   Doug

We're talking about CB750s here. All Cb500/550s came with 530 IIRC.

[MCRider]

Maxspeed, the original chain was a 630 ORING chain, endless (no masterlink). Yours has been replaced. For best service I would recommend an ORing chain WITH a masterlink for convenience.

PS: I see you got a non-Oring, that will be fine. Just requires more attention (lube).

[fastbroshi]

I don't know why I assumed it was a 550 but you're right MC, I see the rounded cover at the left of the picture now.

[maxspeed140]

Thanks everyone for the help. New sprockets, chain and clip went on pretty easy. MC, I took a third look at the old chain. The chain has a link with a clip on it, the very next link to the left going clockwise was a master link with a clip with an open end on it. I can't figure out why someone would have 2 links with removable clips in 1 chain, and they were next to each other. I'm glad I decided to replace the chain, I had only put about 150 miles on it since I bought it. Hate to think what could have happened with the links set up as they were, or even with the chain rubbing the engine case.

[Toxic]

Two master links in one chain side by side usually means someone didn't measure properly and cut the chain just a little too short.

Measure twice before you cut.

I think that is what the PO did.

[MCRider]

He said: "I cut it twice and its still too short!"