Topic: **Updated 5/20/13** In over MY head 1975 cb550 cafe. thanks...Dave500, Twotired

[Greggo]

Or, you can shoot the messenger.  It's a time honored tradition.

 

[CafeDawg]

Hey man I like your frame treatment and the gauge template idea, make your own.  You have a lot of good ideas but I think you're getting caught up in your Cafe Racer passion/vision.  Happens to me all the time.  So call me master obvious if you will but I say listen to TwoTired and get your #$%* straight before you worry about see through points covers and where the LED lights go.  This way you won't waste anymore unnecessary time,money or effort.  Good luck and keep the ideas coming.
Respect
CD

[xsmooth69x]

ya i know im geting ahead of myself...........

**************************************************************************

It's the headstock angle that is of concern.  The down tubes are just and evidence pointer.

Lets say the headstock has been angularly tweaked 1 degree.   At three inches from the fulcrum point, that's about 1/16 inch of movement.  But that same 1 degree at 24 inches (headstock center to front axle) is about 1/2 inch.  Do you have a protractor?   Measure the magnitudes yourself.

Do you seriously believe you can eyeball the front headstock on the frame and notice a 1/8 to 1/4 bend?
That's why I told you to measure with front axle to down tube distance with the forks on.  The headstock angle determines the axle position, assuming the forks and triple trees are straight.  If you have verified that the forks are straight, what does that leave to explain the axle to frame distance discrepancy?

The easiest fix was if the forks or trees were bent, you could simply replace or straighten them.   (Likely what was done after the original crash.  Didn't you get the bike from a wrecking yard?  Or, was that in another thread I read on the forum?)

**************************************************************************


please explain this to me like im a 4th grader..... how would i use a protractor? like what points do i measure?

i got this bike from a huge vintage bike lot. they buy sell trade and scoop up any old bikes that newer bike stores take in as trades and dont want to resell.....

should i take the frame to a bike shop or something.... is this like a really hard and precises thing to look at?

<3 you twotired 

[xsmooth69x]

also some more updates on the day i could work on the bike i cleaned my engine..... and that went..... not so good 

so i didnt know that the stock engine from factory had paint on it already..... and my previous owners decided to spray his headers black while it was on the bike so when i was cleaning i wanted to get that extra over spray off.... well i used some gell 5 layer paint stipper..... well it striped off more than just the over spray 

also it took me 1 gallon of wd40 and it looks really good...... i forgot to take the before pictures so i wasnt to happy with myself when i remembered so sorry everyone



^^^ clean

so i took my grinder thing



and took off some of the other paint to see what my engine looked like





so now im going to have to figure out how to spray the part i want to look like metal/chrome.....



i want the top of the motor black then the small middle section red (that dosnt look so little on my visual simulation) and the bottom section the stock engine color...... the spark plug wires i want them to be red too and the spark plug caps black and the tan color are my cool wrapped headers...... 

so im posting right now if i have to get this thing sand blasted now so i can paint it or i can just do it some other way...... because i cant use my cool grinding tool to get in all the little spots....

also check out what i picked up for $50 a 3/4 of an engine and a bent frame  hurray!!!!! its a 1974 cb550





so this was worth $50 to me because i wanted the center stand and any other engine piece internally that i need. my original motors compressing was like 120-240-235-230 or something like that.

this new engine was free so i decided to do a cold kick start compression test too. so i poured a little oil through the spark plug holes to loosen maybe re soak some stuff get things all slick since there is no oil in the motor....

then my brilliant self kicks it for the fun of it welll........the oil shot out of 3 cylinders across the garage which was dumb because i had to clean it all up..... so since it was only 3 i was like damn maybe 1 cylinder is completely shot. so then i started working on the engine some more till i for some reason looked up....





^ found the missing shot of oil.......... my parents werent to happy 

this motors compression was 175-180-205-210...............

also some more stuff in the mail



All Balls Steering Stem Bearing Kit 22-1011 ...............................................$33.73 shipped to my door from www.amazon.com

wheel bearings......
Kit9727  -  6302-2NSE Nachi Bearing 15x42x13:Sealed:C3:Japan........$5.84
Kit9729  -  6304-2NSE Nachi Bearing 20x52x15:Sealed:C3:Japan........$7.86
Kit9730  -  6305-2NSE Nachi Bearing 25x62x17:Sealed:C3:Japan........$9.91
shipping...............................................................................................$4.99
TOTAL...$28.60 www.vxb.com

Exhaust Heat Header Wrap 1/16" X 2" X 50' Tan........................................$27 shipped to my door www.ebay.com

the points and master cylinder rebuild prices are on the first page of parts and prices 

allllllllllll so got these cool looking springs



now i got them off ebay.com they came off a 1975 cb550 they are Monroe shocks..... but someone on the forums posted the the color code for the spring rate was a lot stiffer than the stockers.... ow well ill see what they are like  i think they look cool lol

there is a little rust but no pitting





they were $55 including shipping

picture of my custom motorcycle shop



also the last time i worked on my bike i ruined one of my bottom fork tubes..... it was kind of rusted and pitted so i decided to grind it off.... well i guess the more i ground and stripped it off the bigger the holes got?..........



the other good bottom



so in retro spec of my current frame and this new one that i can clearly see is uber bent







im also in complete denial on my other frame that i originally got but it needs to be fixed or swapped out.......

i really appreciate twotired btw this is invaluable information to learn before i by another bike.

[xsmooth69x]

Hey man I like your frame treatment and the gauge template idea, make your own.  You have a lot of good ideas but I think you're getting caught up in your Cafe Racer passion/vision.  Happens to me all the time.  So call me master obvious if you will but I say listen to TwoTired and get your #$%* straight before you worry about see through points covers and where the LED lights go.  This way you won't waste anymore unnecessary time,money or effort.  Good luck and keep the ideas coming.
Respect
CD

the only reason it hasent been fired up is that im still trying to figure out my wireing problem..... my points are shot. i have the replacements so thats ok..... the wires on my coils where electric taped together so i have to figure that situation and get new wires and plugs (got new spark pugs   ). then i have to buy a battery..... i rebuild my carbs that where filled with tree sap so i still have to remount them on the rack and im waiting for my carb sync to come in the mail.

so when all that is complete im going to either kick start it on the frame or try to wire the electric start.....

but while i sit around at my other house i just toss some ideas around. i only get to go back to my parents house to work on my bike like 1 or 2 days a week every other week till summer term A classes for college is over.... which is in 2 weeks 

so my hands on time is really limited. so thats why i can nit pick on little things. i have 2 engines for this bike and all the parts if the frame is messed up worst comes to worst it will either be replaced free or ill buy one which wont cost to much.

another reason i need twotired to walk me through this is because i have to build my case about this frame so i can go back with it and #$%* and demand an exchange.

[bikebitzofvt]

This thread reminds me of another CB550 build that was hampered by frame trouble.  Sohron (you can search for him by user, then follow his posts) had his 74 CB550 almost completed when he found the frame bent, causing some major delay (over a year) and his having to start over with a different frame.  Check out his build threads, the 1st thread has lost most of it's pics, but you can check out the new assembly thread here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=86697.0

Just my 2 cents here, but I agree with those that think something is out of whack with the bike.  The scratches and dents on the back of the fender closest to the exhaust (seen in 2nd picture) are just one more indicator.  However, I noticed the pipe is not stock - it's an old 4 into 1.  I have a Kerker on my 750 and they stick out futher from the engine than the stock pipes did.  I'd estimate a little over an inch.  This might be what's making the space between the front wheel and frame look too close in your earlier pictures.  Perhaps we could get a few 550 owners to duplicate your frame to front wheel measurements on their own bikes - that would help determine if there's really something wrong.  I had to part with my last 550 last fall when family economics demanded it or I'd check myself. 

Did you take the steering stem off the frame and check the bearing races and steering stem yet?  If a bike hits something head on hard enough both of those parts can get seriously knocked out of whack, along with the frame and forks.  The front tube in the frame - where the bearing races sit - can elongate into an egg shape (think of the fork legs as a lever, the bottom race as the fulcrum, the force of an impact and you can imagine the results) and the steering stem can get bent as a result of the same.  I see you bought some tapered steering bearings so all this will have to come apart to install them.  Check these parts carefully while youre installing the new bearings.  Here's a link to a quick walk through on installing your new bearings http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=89112.msg999893#msg999893

I noticed in your sig "ow and i dont know how to ride it either"  Check out http://nm.msf-usa.org/msf/ridercourses.aspx - this is an excellent way to learn how to ride safely, most courses even have bikes to ride & learn on!  As an added bonus in most states passing the course gets you a voucher good to get your motorcycle endorsement without taking a riding test at the DMV!

BTW - That parts bike was a great score!!!  I wonder ... is it me or does the lower shock look bent??

Have fun wrenching, building & riding!

[Syscrush]

Watching with interest...

[xsmooth69x]

This thread reminds me of another CB550 build that was hampered by frame trouble.  Sohron (you can search for him by user, then follow his posts) had his 74 CB550 almost completed when he found the frame bent, causing some major delay (over a year) and his having to start over with a different frame.  Check out his build threads, the 1st thread has lost most of it's pics, but you can check out the new assembly thread here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=86697.0

Just my 2 cents here, but I agree with those that think something is out of whack with the bike.  The scratches and dents on the back of the fender closest to the exhaust (seen in 2nd picture) are just one more indicator.  However, I noticed the pipe is not stock - it's an old 4 into 1.  I have a Kerker on my 750 and they stick out futher from the engine than the stock pipes did.  I'd estimate a little over an inch.  This might be what's making the space between the front wheel and frame look too close in your earlier pictures.  Perhaps we could get a few 550 owners to duplicate your frame to front wheel measurements on their own bikes - that would help determine if there's really something wrong.  I had to part with my last 550 last fall when family economics demanded it or I'd check myself. 

Did you take the steering stem off the frame and check the bearing races and steering stem yet?  If a bike hits something head on hard enough both of those parts can get seriously knocked out of whack, along with the frame and forks.  The front tube in the frame - where the bearing races sit - can elongate into an egg shape (think of the fork legs as a lever, the bottom race as the fulcrum, the force of an impact and you can imagine the results) and the steering stem can get bent as a result of the same.  I see you bought some tapered steering bearings so all this will have to come apart to install them.  Check these parts carefully while youre installing the new bearings.  Here's a link to a quick walk through on installing your new bearings http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=89112.msg999893#msg999893

I noticed in your sig "ow and i dont know how to ride it either"  Check out http://nm.msf-usa.org/msf/ridercourses.aspx - this is an excellent way to learn how to ride safely, most courses even have bikes to ride & learn on!  As an added bonus in most states passing the course gets you a voucher good to get your motorcycle endorsement without taking a riding test at the DMV!

BTW - That parts bike was a great score!!!  I wonder ... is it me or does the lower shock look bent??

Have fun wrenching, building & riding!

you sir will get a special shout out for posting that previous build with the frame damage. a picture on that forum confirmed how F'ed my frame is

also that bottom shock is not bent....

my camera lens im using is good for taking very very very far away pictures and when i shoot macro pics the huge concavity of my lens makes things look curved......

[Syscrush]

you sir will get a special shout out for posting that previous build with the frame damage. a picture on that forum confirmed how F'ed my frame is

my camera lens im using is good for taking very very very far away pictures and when i shoot macro pics the huge concavity of my lens makes things look curved......

So, are you saying that your frame is or is not damaged?

[xsmooth69x]

you sir will get a special shout out for posting that previous build with the frame damage. a picture on that forum confirmed how F'ed my frame is

my camera lens im using is good for taking very very very far away pictures and when i shoot macro pics the huge concavity of my lens makes things look curved......

So, are you saying that your frame is or is not damaged?

Frame is totaled. its bent twists, F'ed up

what bikebitzofvt what referring to was my monroe shocks, and they arnt bent its my camera

[xsmooth69x]

So TwoTired and Bikebitzofvt you have helped me confirm my frame is completely F'ed up

this picture from bikebitzofvt directing me to another forum members build thread that also has frame damage not noticeable to these newb eyes



looking at this picture i had no idea how straight the front of my frame is

after that i look for my 90" metal angle ruler and really really measured my bike........ and the frame is F'ed







so now next weekend if i have time i will be swapping out this frame for a new titleable frame

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i have to give out a special thanks to TwoTired for his persistent expertise regarding my frame and my thick headedness. your a pro and thank you for saving me alot of time heart ache and possible safety danger. i give you mad props

also thank you to Bikebitzofvt directing me to a previous build that enlightened me about the extensiveness of how F'ed up my frame was + a lot more valuables information because of the detailed build thread from SohRon

[Syscrush]

So, 2 lessons learned here:

1) A wooden yardstick is not a straightedge.
2) TwoTired is the f'n man!

[xsmooth69x]

So, 2 lessons learned here:

1) A wooden yardstick is not a straightedge.
2) TwoTired is the f'n man!

Touche sir

[TwoTired]

please explain this to me like im a 4th grader..... how would i use a protractor? like what points do i measure?

i got this bike from a huge vintage bike lot. they buy sell trade and scoop up any old bikes that newer bike stores take in as trades and dont want to resell.....

Important translation is: The frame use abuse history is unknown.

I will point out that the bent down tube aren't a problem in itself.  But, they are a tel-tale the there is some damage.  It's the headstock angle that is the actual issue.

I took some photos (Below) of the important geometry, which you may take as a lesson.

I used a degree wheel and two straight edges to exemplify.  Your headstock is about 6 inches long.  I made a brash assumption that the head angle changed at the center point purely for illustrative reasons.  Further, I assumed a 2 degree angle change of the headstock.  At 3 inches from the pivot point, I measured a 2 degree deflection distance of 0.105 inches.  Note that at 24 inches from the pivot point, that same two degree angle has grown in distance to about 7/8".  The same angle produces increased distance between radials the farther it gets from the pivot point or origin.
Now apply what you learned to the trail drawing.  Mentally decrease the headstock angle.  Do you now see how the axle would get nearer or farther from the down tubes as the headstock angle changes?

In terms of trail, the distance get shorter as the headstock angle nears vertical.  Longer trail distances add straight line stability the bike (meaning you can ride hands off the bars).  Shorter trail distances make it easier to change the front wheel position.  But, at some point the front wheel hunts for stability, turning one way and then the other in oscillation.  This is head shake or at worst a tank slapper.

[TwoTired]

Headshake?

[Motorcycle Accident]TT-Tankslapper-19sec

[SohRon]

Bummer on the frame situation, man; I know where you're at. Thankfully you didn't have the thing all the way together before you found it! Good move on the new frame.

BTW, the above pic is actually of the new frame I picked up to replace the damaged one, and it's pretty straight, so that's why you can't see the problem...

[xsmooth69x]

please explain this to me like im a 4th grader..... how would i use a protractor? like what points do i measure?

i got this bike from a huge vintage bike lot. they buy sell trade and scoop up any old bikes that newer bike stores take in as trades and dont want to resell.....

Important translation is: The frame use abuse history is unknown.

I will point out that the bent down tube aren't a problem in itself.  But, they are a tel-tale the there is some damage.  It's the headstock angle that is the actual issue.

I took some photos (Below) of the important geometry, which you may take as a lesson.

I used a degree wheel and two straight edges to exemplify.  Your headstock is about 6 inches long.  I made a brash assumption that the head angle changed at the center point purely for illustrative reasons.  Further, I assumed a 2 degree angle change of the headstock.  At 3 inches from the pivot point, I measured a 2 degree deflection distance of 0.105 inches.  Note that at 24 inches from the pivot point, that same two degree angle has grown in distance to about 7/8".  The same angle produces increased distance between radials the farther it gets from the pivot point or origin.
Now apply what you learned to the trail drawing.  Mentally decrease the headstock angle.  Do you now see how the axle would get nearer or farther from the down tubes as the headstock angle changes?

In terms of trail, the distance get shorter as the headstock angle nears vertical.  Longer trail distances add straight line stability the bike (meaning you can ride hands off the bars).  Shorter trail distances make it easier to change the front wheel position.  But, at some point the front wheel hunts for stability, turning one way and then the other in oscillation.  This is head shake or at worst a tank slapper.

ya this makes perfect sense thanks for the time to show me a mock up. i was just so fixated on the fact that the front section of the frame where to coils sit is so thick and reinforced i didnt think those 2 skinny down tubes on the frame would dictate the angle of the front of the bike that much.

i will be getting a new frame.

i will for sure check the front frame down tubes and the triangle part that SohRon also had a problem with

****^^^^^ this was such a sweet explanation btw your awesome****** had to add that again

[xsmooth69x]

Bummer on the frame situation, man; I know where you're at. Thankfully you didn't have the thing all the way together before you found it! Good move on the new frame.

BTW, the above pic is actually of the new frame I picked up to replace the damaged one, and it's pretty straight, so that's why you can't see the problem...

wait i thought that picture i took off you build to show how straight the front end was, was the frame that had the bent part of the frame in the triangle section by the foot area. or is this the new new frame that is all perfect and pretty

[bwaller]

Those sure look like S&W shocks. They were a definite improvement over stock when new. Rusty shafts will be difficult on seals. Check that the upper bushings aren't ruined, they were soft.

[xsmooth69x]

Those sure look like S&W shocks. They were a definite improvement over stock when new. Rusty shafts will be difficult on seals. Check that the upper bushings aren't ruined, they were soft.

i was going to take the shocks apart and use some 800 grit wetsand paper and take off the rust. they are litterally surface rust i can scrap it off with my finger nail. 

i will check into the bushings. they are nice and stiff and not mooshy. also they seem like you can change them out with the stock ones they look about the same size

ya i posted a thread about these shocks and monroe was bought out by S&W or Ikon or something.

they defiantly have monroe written on the inside piston area.

idk they look really cool 

[xsmooth69x]

$500 1975 cb550k

Decided to update my parts bought list so far....

23 ngk wire splice connector x4
17 ngk copper core wires
13 ngk spark caps XD05F x4
12 ngk spark plugs D7EA x5
24 stainless steel bolt kit 53 piece
10 end mirrors
25 oval old school # plate x2
12 exhaust gasket x5
58 stebel nautilus compact horn + wire harness
11 cable lube
3   clutch cable adjuster x2
7   oil filter and o rings x2
15 ignition switch
9   ignition switch bracket
60 clip on handlebars 35mm
20 brake shoe pad
15 front brake pad
5   foam grip
10 pro motion throttle tube
25 uni air filter
48 ek 530 100 link heavy duty chain non o-ring
10 OEM battery strap
32 headlight halo h4 conversion
48 hid 6000k 35w h4
28 front rear wheel bearings
34 stem bearing
40 used headers
20 mint points cover
16 both contact points
13 fork seals
52 carb rebuild kit x4
20 master cylinder rebuild kit
27 exhaust header wrap
55 monroe shocks
30 mint wire harness
35 used forks
72 carb sync
8   gas cap gasket
50 carb x1
10 throttle cable
10 speedo cable
10 exhaust sleeves x1 pair
10 rubber seat for tank
10 air box boots x2
90 paint
30 gallon wd-40 and brushes
32 respirator

things to buy.....
both SS brake lines
brake and clutch leavers
left control
battery
tires
strips
tubes
tail light
fork and chain oil
fuel filter
headlight mount
helmet
body armor
kevlar carbon fiber gloves
hagon goggles

if my engine compression isnt good
head gasket
piston rings
anything else....

[xsmooth69x]

also i will let everyone know about the frame swap and how that will go......

im done with summer classes the 17th so it will be an all out build fest!!!!!!!!!!!!

[xsmooth69x]

ok some updates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here are some new parts i got in the mail









^ got a new ignitions and this cool cover thing for it



i also did my coils. waiting to mount them to cut the wires the right length and finish the caps



then i was out in the junk yard and found 2 of these!!!







they are the 550 air filters with brackets that go onto you stock air box!!! got them for freeeeeeeee

used the K&N air filter recharge kit and they filters are like new!

also cleaned and rebuilt my forks



the buffing is kinda shotty but im getting a table buffer thing soon so they will really shine when im done

[xsmooth69x]

an update with the frame.....

the frame is bent but very slightly and evenly on both sides

there are no cracks or stress anywhere on the frame

i might just keep it the way it is.

i really like the shorter stance of the bike. its only 1 inch of the front forks moved closer to the frame. people changing the suspension using different forks moves the angle and pitch of the forks anyways so if it rides good why not. im not making a history museum quality bike so i will see how it rides. people make up custom frames for bikes and cut them i doubt the 1 inch isnt going to effect anything crazy

the tire clears everything and the bike looks really cool. im going to put it all back together take it out for a ride and see what it is like.

if i have any problems ill get another frame!!

i also do actually have another frame i havent got round to titling it yet. it was on the parts bike i bought and that frame is actually still good.

the neck and angle is perfect the only unsightly thing is the down tubes on the frame from the neck. the previous owner had on of those front peg crash bar things and just tightened the crap out of the tubes smooshing them. but i vice could make them more aesthetically pleasing.

[Syscrush]

an update with the frame.....

the frame is bent but very slightly and evenly on both sides

there are no cracks or stress anywhere on the frame that I can see with the naked eye

i might just risk my life and safety for no apparent reason and keep it the way it is.

Don't.

i really like the shorter stance of the bike. its only 1 inch of the front forks moved closer to the frame.

Then have a good frame modified or custom-built by a professional frame builder.

i also do actually have another frame i havent got round to titling it yet. it was on the parts bike i bought and that frame is actually still good.

the neck and angle is perfect the only unsightly thing is the down tubes on the frame from the neck. the previous owner had on of those front peg crash bar things and just tightened the crap out of the tubes smooshing them. but i vice could make them more aesthetically pleasing.

It's not just aesthetics, if the downtubes have been crushed to the point where they're deformed, the frame is pooched.