Topic: Cheap 836 kits back on ebay...$110! *Update!

[HondaMan]

Good to know.Thank you sir. I just thought maybe there was a known cam that was a no-go perhaps.

The lift limit without modifying these pistons is about 9.3mm on the intake side. That's a lot: you have to do some tricky things with the valves and adjusters to make this much left even work. If you stick with something like the Megacycle 125-00 cam, you won't have to do anything special: if you get their billet version of this cam, you won't even need a slotted sprocket to install it, either! With the Webcam 41/a, you will need the APE slotted sprocket to replace the Honda lightened sprocket, so you can get enough adjustment: if you have the non-lightened sprocket, you can just slot it about 3/8" or so to make up the timing.

[shinyribs]

Thanks for the reply! How do you like the 836 with the F2 cam? Is it a big difference from stock,or just noticeable?

Well, I added the 836 kit ported the head and added the cam all at once so I can't say how much is the cam but I seriously love the torque. It accelerates faster at lower rpm's. Even with the 18/48 sprockets. I find I don't rev it as tight which is a good thing.

Thanks for the reply! Sounds like a great setup you have there. I run 18/48 as well. I think I know where I can get my hands on an F2 cam,too Thanks again



Hondaman-Thanks for that info. You really put my mind at ease with that. Much appreciated!

[Hummel]

I just ordered 2 sets too first plan SAS wiseco or JE piston.. But nothing Can compare with that price ! Now i omlyd need cam and springs i Think :-)

[brandEn]

Well I have finally read this thread all the way through. I am rebuilding my K4 engine and these seem like a  decent, reliable and affordable option. I have an F2 cam I want to use. Is the F2 cam something that can just drop in with a stock cam sprocket with these pistons? Don R you still like your setup with these?

[Don R]

Heck yes, I haven't been able to ride recently although it was in the 50's recently there was still ice here and there. The only thing I might change is, I used  stock K valve springs. I may still switch them out just so I sleep better.
 I had a little trouble finding someone that could do the bore, most big machine shops cutters don't go this small and it's a big cut. My guy did it in his spare time and did a beautiful job for 2 hundred. I don't have a dial bore gauge but the rings fit perfectly and the gaps were right where I wanted them.

[Terry in Australia]

Here are my eBay pistons installed and ready for the head to be bolted back on. They're a snug fit compared to the RC's that came out of my engine, so hopefully my engine will be a lot quieter this time around! Cheers, Terry.

[ekpent]

Terry -Never did hear the reason for the tear down but did see the other posts on What did you do-- Was there anything broken in there or was it piston chatter ?  Glad you are playing with one of these for a good report while we head to snow and you to spring---Have fun-------------

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Eric, yeah mate, it appears to be just piston slap, (or "chatter") I'd heard that forged pistons needed a lot more clearance than cast, and with the JMR head and Megacycle 125/75 cam the bike went mental around 7000 RPM, but the rattle when the engine was cold gave me some pause for concern, and I never rode it too far for that reason.

I'm quietly confidant that it'll now be much quieter, at the expense of a little BHP due to the flat top pistons. That's no biggie, my 836 is my smallest bike anyway, so if I want to go faster, I'll just ride something else. Cheers, Terry.    

[ekpent]

G'Day Eric, yeah mate, it appears to be just piston slap, (or "chatter") I'd heard that forged pistons needed a lot more clearance than cast, and with the JMR head and Megacycle 125/75 cam the bike went mental around 7000 RPM, but the rattle when the engine was cold gave me some pause for concern, and I never rode it too far for that reason.

I'm quietly confidant that it'll now be much quieter, at the expense of a little BHP due to the flat top pistons. That's no biggie, my 836 is my smallest bike anyway, so if I want to go faster, I'll just ride something else. Cheers, Terry.    

Please keep us up to speed.  Eric

[Don R]

How did your deck height come out?  A couple of us had the piston a few thou out of the hole. I took mine back apart to install aftermarket springs, retainers a bigger cam and replace a bent valve there was some evidence the pistons had lightly touched the carbon on the head. I used two metal core base gaskets.

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Don, I torqued the head down last weekend and rotated the crank a few times, then after a panic attack because I'd forgotten to measure the piston ring end gaps I lifted the head again yesterday, (but all was good) and with the head gasket compressed I couldn't see any evidence of piston marks on the inside of the head.

Keep in mind that my cylinder block hasn't been decked, so it might be a little taller than yours? My head (one of Mike Rieck's very early Stage 3 jobs) has been machined .017" but I don't think I'll have any issues, I've removed my Megacycle 125/75 cam and installed a "Mystery" cam that has about 1mm more lift than an F2 cam, and a lot more duration, but that's still 2mm less lift then the Megacycle, so there shouldn't be any "valve kissing" issues, either. (hopefully) Cheers, Terry.



Here's the "Mystery" cam, see the raised blocks cast in just next to the tach gear. Ever seen one like this?



All buttoned up and ready for install. Actually I'll tip it upside down to re-seal the neutral light switch, as I think it was leaking.

[Don R]

There were apparently some kits that had a different compression height from the pin centerline to the top. There is a picture of a couple pistons on the same pin in this thread. Yours look good if they are at TDC in the picture. The cam sounds like a good one, should be fun. The squares on the cam look familiar but I don't know a name.

[Elan]

I Mrieck had to make the valve reliefs larger to accomodate my oversized intake valves. But otherwise its been 400 miles and im happy with them.

[KJ790]

I've passed the first 1000 miles with my ebay pistons in a modified F3 engine. Like I mentioned eariler in the thread, I had to shave .060" off the head to get the compression ratio up with the large combustion chambers in the F3 head, but it has worked out well. No issues so far, runs nice and strong.

[MRieck]

I Mrieck had to make the valve reliefs larger to accomodate my oversized intake valves. But otherwise its been 400 miles and im happy with them.

Correct!

[CB750F2]

I have used one of these kits on my F2. I opted to fit a K head to bring the compression back to standard. I have had the bike back on the road and I am very pleased with the result. Pat

[Brantley]

I'm here to report c. 3100 trouble free miles on these pistons since getting my bike on the road in late May.

[Stev-o]

I'm here to report c. 3100 trouble free mile on these pistons since getting my bike on the road in late May.

I'm sold...

[Terry in Australia]

I've got a customers engine coming in for a rebuild this weekend Steve, and if he needs new pistons I'll definitely recommend these, they're one of lifes few real bargains. Cheers, Terry.  

[RAFster122s]

   Odd, did this post to the wrong thread in response to Stev-o's post or he delete his... I thought this was posting to the 550 big bore cheap kits not this thread... will move... David

I'm here to report c. 3100 trouble free mile on these pistons since getting my bike on the road in late May.

I'm sold...

I like hearing this Stev-o.
That certainly beats the $ to modify the pistons on a Henry Abe (HA) kit to take a wider oil ring of 2-piece or 3-piece (Honda std 750) design so those kits are reliable. (Most common failure modes on Henry Abe 605 kit were: Was most common to have broken rings motor failure without too much time passing after rebuild, as the rings [two piece oil control ring or one piece oil control ring? I forget which] are considered to be junk by most here. Second failure mode is improper cylinder sleeve replacement with a dropped liner, usually caused by machine shops inexperience with SOHC4 motors and not pressing them to a torque value or proper torque value.)
With good rings the Henry Abe pistons are not bad and the CB550K/F just needs an overbore to fit the pistons, like the CrusinImage (CI) big bore 550 kit. The Henry Abe liners only need installed when using the pistons in a CB500K.
Don't remember anyone comparing the piston weights and out of the box finish of Henry Abe 605 kit to the CrusinImage 550 big bore kit. As has been said here, the CI 550 big bore kit needs some sharp-edge  clean up on many if not most every kit's pistons (easy to do with wet sanding). Whereas, Henry Abe does not need piston edge cleaning but, (as I previously mentioned) more seriously needs good rings which require some lathe work to widen oil control ring thickness AND I think I recall that std 750 rings require top ring groove to be widened "just a hair" large (figurative expression being used as I don't remember but, seem to recall that being mentioned with some rings or all rings...) The Henry Abe kits are 61mm overbore whereas the CI kits use a 61.5mm overbore size. Considering the figure I heard on Total Seal modifying the HA pistons at $40/piston and selling you one of their two piece ring sets for whatever their asking price is... CI kit wins as their rings appear to be good quality as ring failures are not being reported.

I think the old stock (NOS) Henry Abe kits that made their appearance on ebay a few years back are gone and their value is much less because of these high quality kits.

[HondaMan]

Here are my eBay pistons installed and ready for the head to be bolted back on. They're a snug fit compared to the RC's that came out of my engine, so hopefully my engine will be a lot quieter this time around! Cheers, Terry.

Hey, Terry: is that the top end I sent to you about 3 years back?

I was just about to use that beautiful cam you sent me about that time, when I discovered it was a K6/F0 cam (!). I had long thought it was a K5, for some reason? The intake timing is the 5-degrees-later version, so it went back into my 'spares' box.

I got a good K4 cam (5-35 timing) and a slotted sprocket to make up another 3+ degrees on top of that, instead. I'm getting lazier as I get older, and suspect that I won't spend so much time above 110 MPH anymore, so I'll put the torque down where the speed limits are, around here. 

[ekpent]

Anybody have a clue on how many kits this guy has sold ?  Just this site alone has been very good for him I would think..

[scharny61]

Hi Terry
do you remember the order of the rings on those pistons? I have recently bought some from cruisinimage ?? and don't know which ring goes where.

The packaged order is ;
top, bevelled edge top and bottom.
second, black with square edges
last, 3 piece oil ring
I think this is the order to put them on but unsure.
hope you can help
cheers

[PeWe]

It sounds like my old dirty RC 836 pistons. Rings assembled at my local tuner that tuned Pro bikes and also raced in top Europe league during the 70-80's.

Below general information about rings. The gaps must be correct in clearance and how they are positioned
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=33728.0

[Terry in Australia]

Hi Terry
do you remember the order of the rings on those pistons? I have recently bought some from cruisinimage ?? and don't know which ring goes where.

The packaged order is ;
top, bevelled edge top and bottom.
second, black with square edges
last, 3 piece oil ring
I think this is the order to put them on but unsure.
hope you can help
cheers

G'Day mate, yep, you're spot on. Unlike just about any other piston rings I've used, I couldn't find any tiny marks on the two top rings to tell me which side is "UP", but it doesn't seem to matter, there's no smoke or other issues, I just installed them on the pistons in the same order/direction they were packed. Cheers, Terry.