Topic: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition

[Oakleyguy]

Hi Guys,

Been lurking around for a long long time, and I'm knee deep in my build. I'll post up a photo log when I'm closer to completion.

I haven't been able to find a solid answer regarding my options on ignition. I'm looking at the Dyna S (with Dyna Coils) and the Cycle X High Performance Optical ignition. A buddy of mine was stating that the CycleX setup may not produce noticable results on the 750sohc.

I wanted to see what others thought on this before I pull the trigger on the rest of my motor build.

My build will be as follows:

K2 Motor:
Ported and Polished Heads
Adjustable Cam Gear
CycleX Cam, (possibly CX2, haven't decided)
CX Superflow valves
CX 849cc kit
Stock Carbs, May be upgraded in the future (like 1+ years)
4-into-1 Exhaust (Mac style), to be later upgraded to Carpy's Yoshi model)
One of the two upgraded ignitions.

Thoughts?

[Gordon]

I don't know about the Cycle-X ignition, but the Dyna-S isn't a "performance" ignition.  It just eliminates the need to check/set the timing after the initial install. 

[Bluegreen]

I don't know about the Cycle-X ignition, but the Dyna-S isn't a "performance" ignition.  It just eliminates the need to check/set the timing after the initial install.

Or touch points again

[bluezboy]

 I'd stay away from the Dyna, they are famous for not being able to handle the heat behind the points plate and mine has been a pain in the butt.  Other here have had no problem with them, but I no longer trust it. I'm having a Pamco ignition installed this week.

[Duke McDukiedook]

My Dyna-S has been working fine since I got it, no problems here.

What are you trying to accomplish with your build?

[Gordon]

I'd stay away from the Dyna, they are famous for not being able to handle the heat behind the points plate and mine has been a pain in the butt.  Other here have had no problem with them, but I no longer trust it. I'm having a Pamco ignition installed this week.

I always thought the Dyna-S was famous for it's more than three decade long reputation of ease of use, reliability and longevity.

[andy750]

I'd stay away from the Dyna, they are famous for not being able to handle the heat behind the points plate and mine has been a pain in the butt.  Other here have had no problem with them, but I no longer trust it. I'm having a Pamco ignition installed this week.

I always thought the Dyna-S was famous for it's more than three decade long reputation of ease of use, reliability and longevity.

Mine is going on 10 years and 40,000 miles later with no issues. From other threads it seems there may be a current quality control issue with the Dyna S. Maybe?

[Trav-i]

Andy I agree with you.  I think it seems to be the newer Dyna's that seem to be failing a lot.  Me however, I love my points and condensers.  I love the ability to kick start it even with low battery voltage, which you can't really do with electronic ignition.  Plus why mess with what's been working perfectly for many many years.

[BobbyR]

I'd stay away from the Dyna, they are famous for not being able to handle the heat behind the points plate and mine has been a pain in the butt.  Other here have had no problem with them, but I no longer trust it. I'm having a Pamco ignition installed this week.

I am beginning to agree with you. I have had a problem with 1-4 dropping out if I am running the bike hard. I lost power going up a steep Mountain road, no place to turn around 20 Mph in second @7K the last 1/2 of the climb. Let her cool down and coasted down. Ran like a champ, ran her hard down the highway and yep lost power on the hill coming to the house.

The last time I was on the highway after a local road ride. I had it at 80 for maybe 15 minutes, lost power again 5 mins later. This time I could pull over pulled off #1 wire and no change, 1 and 4 were dead. Let her cool off, ran like a raped ape.

I can only surmise it is the Dyna taking a crap from heat. If anyone has another answer I will explore that, if I am right I am getting a Pamco. I could put the points back in but I want to do this job once.

[pamcopete]

Andy I agree with you.  I think it seems to be the newer Dyna's that seem to be failing a lot.  Me however, I love my points and condensers.  I love the ability to kick start it even with low battery voltage, which you can't really do with electronic ignition.  Plus why mess with what's been working perfectly for many many years.

The PAMCO itself will work all the way down to 3 volts. The limiting factor is the ability of the coils to make a spark at low voltage. Here is a video of the PAMCO making a usable spark from a 6 volt lantern battery:

PAMCO Ultimate coil @ 6 Volts

[BobbyR]

That is great Pete, but can they take the heat?

[scottly]

Mine is going on 10 years and 40,000 miles later with no issues. From other threads it seems there may be a current quality control issue with the Dyna S. Maybe?

Not only the Dyna S, but the Dyna 2000 as well. The problems seem to date back to units made 3 years ago or so, some with very low miles.

Pete, how about increasing your warranty period?

[HondaMan]

I'd stay away from the Dyna, they are famous for not being able to handle the heat behind the points plate and mine has been a pain in the butt.  Other here have had no problem with them, but I no longer trust it. I'm having a Pamco ignition installed this week.

I am beginning to agree with you. I have had a problem with 1-4 dropping out if I am running the bike hard. I lost power going up a steep Mountain road, no place to turn around 20 Mph in second @7K the last 1/2 of the climb. Let her cool down and coasted down. Ran like a champ, ran her hard down the highway and yep lost power on the hill coming to the house.

The last time I was on the highway after a local road ride. I had it at 80 for maybe 15 minutes, lost power again 5 mins later. This time I could pull over pulled off #1 wire and no change, 1 and 4 were dead. Let her cool off, ran like a raped ape.

I can only surmise it is the Dyna taking a crap from heat. If anyone has another answer I will explore that, if I am right I am getting a Pamco. I could put the points back in but I want to do this job once.

Bobby, that's the 'classic' failure mode we've been seeing here since about 2007. It seems odd for Dyna, IMO.

[pamcopete]

That is great Pete, but can they take the heat?

1. The PAMCO CB750 uses the same PC board and electronics as the PAMCO XS650 system and that system is installed in the cam shaft on the head of the engine which gets a lot hotter than the crankshaft area.



2. The plate of the CB750 system has twice the area of the plate for the XS650 system for better heat dissipation.
3. The active components are rated to work up to 302F.
4. The IGBT transistor that actually turns the coil on is rated at 10 Amps continuous duty.
5. A coil with a 2.5 Ohm primary resistance draws 12.5/2.5 = 5 Amps X 33% (duty cycle) = 1.65 Amps average current or 1.65/10 = 16.5% of the transistors capability.
6. Here is a video of me taking the temperature under the points cover right after a run:

CB750 Ignition Heat

[pamcopete]

Mine is going on 10 years and 40,000 miles later with no issues. From other threads it seems there may be a current quality control issue with the Dyna S. Maybe?

Not only the Dyna S, but the Dyna 2000 as well. The problems seem to date back to units made 3 years ago or so, some with very low miles.

Pete, how about increasing your warranty period?

Done. It is now 2 Years, up from 1 year. The rotor has a 5 year warranty.

www.cb750ignition.com

Pete

[Eddie]

Thats it I'm buying the Pamco !

[Oakleyguy]

Thanks for the input so far guys. From what I hear it sounds like the Dyna systems have been plagued with some Quality Control issues as of late. Any Dyna representatives here to comment further?

It looks like few people have used CycleX's ignition as well, which surprises me a bit. I've been under the impression that they are a popular go-to shop for nearly everything.

My goals for the bike are to have a strong street machine. Not planning on racing at high speeds, but I want a strong well performing bike (70-85HP). I plan going to our local track once in a while (Hallet) and on spirited drives through the twisties south of Grand Lake (for you Okies). Otherwise I will be aggressively streeting this bike.

Any other thoughts or ideas? I've heard about Hondaman's ignition, and to my understanding it improves reliability, but how about performance?

Thanks everyone!

[bluezboy]

I'd stay away from the Dyna, they are famous for not being able to handle the heat behind the points plate and mine has been a pain in the butt.  Other here have had no problem with them, but I no longer trust it. I'm having a Pamco ignition installed this week.

I am beginning to agree with you. I have had a problem with 1-4 dropping out if I am running the bike hard. I lost power going up a steep Mountain road, no place to turn around 20 Mph in second @7K the last 1/2 of the climb. Let her cool down and coasted down. Ran like a champ, ran her hard down the highway and yep lost power on the hill coming to the house.

The last time I was on the highway after a local road ride. I had it at 80 for maybe 15 minutes, lost power again 5 mins later. This time I could pull over pulled off #1 wire and no change, 1 and 4 were dead. Let her cool off, ran like a raped ape.

I can only surmise it is the Dyna taking a crap from heat. If anyone has another answer I will explore that, if I am right I am getting a Pamco. I could put the points back in but I want to do this job once.

Misery loves company doesn't it?!  Your problem sounds familiar, my bike kept dropping the 2 and 3 on a trip. It seems quality control has slipped a lot with Dyna, since there are guys here that have had no problems with them.

[Gordon]

Thanks for the input so far guys. From what I hear it sounds like the Dyna systems have been plagued with some Quality Control issues as of late. Any Dyna representatives here to comment further?

It looks like few people have used CycleX's ignition as well, which surprises me a bit. I've been under the impression that they are a popular go-to shop for nearly everything.

My goals for the bike are to have a strong street machine. Not planning on racing at high speeds, but I want a strong well performing bike (70-85HP). I plan going to our local track once in a while (Hallet) and on spirited drives through the twisties south of Grand Lake (for you Okies). Otherwise I will be aggressively streeting this bike.

Any other thoughts or ideas? I've heard about Hondaman's ignition, and to my understanding it improves reliability, but how about performance?

Thanks everyone!

You're not going to get any real "performance" upgrade over stock from any of the less expensive points-less ignitions, mainly just reduced maintenance.  A performance ignition is one that completely replaces the ignition system, including the advance mechanism, and allows for programmable advance curves.  From what you say you want out of the bike, stick with either the stock ignition or your choice of the many available points-less ignitions that retain the stock advancer. 

I already have the Dyna-S in both my bikes so I don't need anything else, but considering the recent problems with newer Dyna modules if I were in the market I'd be taking a serious look at both Pete's and Hondaman's set-ups. 

[somesuch]

I'd stay away from the Dyna, they are famous for not being able to handle the heat behind the points plate and mine has been a pain in the butt.  Other here have had no problem with them, but I no longer trust it. I'm having a Pamco ignition installed this week.

I am beginning to agree with you. I have had a problem with 1-4 dropping out if I am running the bike hard. I lost power going up a steep Mountain road, no place to turn around 20 Mph in second @7K the last 1/2 of the climb. Let her cool down and coasted down. Ran like a champ, ran her hard down the highway and yep lost power on the hill coming to the house.

The last time I was on the highway after a local road ride. I had it at 80 for maybe 15 minutes, lost power again 5 mins later. This time I could pull over pulled off #1 wire and no change, 1 and 4 were dead. Let her cool off, ran like a raped ape.

I can only surmise it is the Dyna taking a crap from heat. If anyone has another answer I will explore that, if I am right I am getting a Pamco. I could put the points back in but I want to do this job once.

Misery loves company doesn't it?!  Your problem sounds familiar, my bike kept dropping the 2 and 3 on a trip. It seems quality control has slipped a lot with Dyna, since there are guys here that have had no problems with them.

Add me to that company

My Dyna S ignition developed a problem all of a sudden, without a warning so to speak, just one day it dropped cylinders 2 and 3 At that time it was about two years old but only a few rides....almost no miles at all. Dyna's customer service sucks on top of it.

Pamco sound like a way to go.

[BobbyR]

I will be buying a PAMCO very soon. I have to refresh this bike anyway. I have done some searching over th last few weeks and finding Dyna stories like ours all over bike forums including HD forums. It would seem that the older units by reports are holding up very well, while newer units are dropping cylinders when getting hot. I reading even warrantied units are being returned with no problem found. They just run them on a test bench and if they fire they are deemed good, they don't heat them just run for a few minutes. Hell mine runs great till I push the bike.

In this economy this is suicide. People are spending their money more carefully. Toyota is learning that lesson, the showrooms are much emptier. 

[nokrome]

Thanks for the input so far guys. From what I hear it sounds like the Dyna systems have been plagued with some Quality Control issues as of late. Any Dyna representatives here to comment further?

It looks like few people have used CycleX's ignition as well, which surprises me a bit. I've been under the impression that they are a popular go-to shop for nearly everything.

My goals for the bike are to have a strong street machine. Not planning on racing at high speeds, but I want a strong well performing bike (70-85HP). I plan going to our local track once in a while (Hallet) and on spirited drives through the twisties south of Grand Lake (for you Okies). Otherwise I will be aggressively streeting this bike.

Any other thoughts or ideas? I've heard about Hondaman's ignition, and to my understanding it improves reliability, but how about performance?

Thanks everyone!

    i run the cyclex system on my hot rod machine (850, webcam 63a, heavy porting, cr29's) it never misses a beat. its the only ignition ive ever had in that bike so i cant really compare it to other systems but i have no complaints

[HondaMan]

Any other thoughts or ideas? I've heard about Hondaman's ignition, and to my understanding it improves reliability, but how about performance?

Well, I can offer this about mine: first, it preserves the original dwell and thus the longer-duration spark afforded by Honda's and Dyna's coils. The Dyna has a very short OFF time, which truncates (shortens) the spark, and the voltage droops above 6000 RPM because of this issue. This is why Dyna always advertised that it "Makes ABOUT the same spark as points.". In my box, I also dual-peak the coils electronically, improving both the low-RPM spark voltage and the high-RPM spark duration. Most who have installed it immediately notice the difference in starting and the full-RPM strength this brings, beating even new points. On my own K2, this box is the only thing that ever let it idle by itself at long traffic lights, in 38 years of riding it.

[Spanner 1]

Hondaman's ignition relies on the mechanical ( stock ) points along with it's own electronics for it's reliability record..... which IMO is waaay up there with any other aftermarket mod........
Hey I've already been called " a stupid bastard " ( Retro Rocket ) on ignition threads for suggesting that aftermarket ign. mods are 'fashion' items only... none can prove more HP or fuel economy over the stock points and their 40 yr. proven reliability .... but I understand that some folks just have to have them. The big argument is always... 'I don't want to fool with my points for 10,000 miles instead of 3,000 miles ( great argument , that one  0 or I don't want points at all but am O.K. with adding electronics where not necessary  'cos it must be better.

[brandEn]

Add me to the list of a failed Dyna. I have the Dyna 2000 unit in my 750, bought brand new earlier this year. After less than 1000 miles of use one of the pickup units failed. It was a pain in the ass getting the plate and pickup replaced but reluctantly Dynatek finally gave me a new one even though they said it bench checked fine. No problems since. Missed out on a 2 months of riding season waiting for it though.