Author Topic: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.  (Read 27383 times)

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Offline TwoTired

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Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« on: July 19, 2012, 11:42:56 PM »
In another thread, MRieck asked me what I felt were acceptable motorcycle exhaust noise limits, and wanted number to quantify.  So, I took some time to do some research.  Here's my response/report.

You want my standards, government standards, or AMA's standards?  (AMA = American Motorcycle Association.)  Mine are simple, if it is louder than a stock exhaust system, it almost certainly is too loud, particularly if it has no DOT approval.  But, my major personal concern is in how my home is invaded by drive by sound terrorists.  (More about this later.)   But, loud exhausts are an offense against society and a disservice to ALL motorcycle riders, imo.

AMA has guidelines, here:
How to Perform a SAE J2825 Motorcycle Sound Test

Data gathering:
OSHA reports that SPLs above 85db leads to risks of Tinnitus and hearing loss.  (I am an example of that btw, as I have experienced that and far higher levels as well).  Above 85db, you are advised to use hearing protection.  Will the users of loud pipes supply hearing protection to all those that are in near field vicinity of the louder motorcycle?  (Seems unlikely)

AMA tests for 92db at idle and either 100db for 3 and 4 cyl bikes, a 96db for all others including twins.  My personal opinion is that this is still too loud and certainly unnecessary. The Feds version is actually more liberal, despite the lower number published.  "By state regulation, motorcycles manufactured in or after 1979 cannot exceed a noise level of 84 decibels (dB) when traveling more than 35 mph on a paved street or highway."
They do, however, measure it differently than the AMA.  "The noise level must be measured 50 feet from the centerline of the vehicle", Feds say.
See:  j331a,  http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=j331a&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.temple.edu%2Flaw%2Ftjstel%2F2006%2Fspring%2Fv25no1-Torrey-and-McCulley.pdf&ei=L14HUIyhJoWL2AW76MjMBA&usg=AFQjCNHaLttD86IP-YKUO3rO51WZqN9B_A&cad=rja
Currently, federal law reports the maximum noise emissions for motorcycle exhaust systems as 84-86 dBA. (Still @ 50 Ft)
For more detail see :   40 C.F.R. § 205.166
These would be 50 ft measurements.  I assume the EPA/Gov expects that  if you can stay 50 ft or more away from a motorcycle your hearing should not be damaged.

Sound reading measurements diminish 6dB  for every doubling of distance. So, working backwards, 84DB at 50 ft from source will be 90 DB at 25 Ft, 96 db at 12.5 ft, 102 db at 6.25 ft, 108 at 3.125 ft etc.  See first graphic below.  It shows how much to subtract from the source level in DB, with distance.  For example, a 60 DB noise source will not be noticed 1000 ft away from the source.
AMA's suggested standard is actually more restrictive than current Fed requirements.  I prefer AMA's standard.  And, I expect the noise tolerance will become more restrictive in the future.

For this analysis, I'll take a 2 level of concern approach to noise.  The first being actual damage to the human ear.  If you care about your own hearing the second graphic summarizes the personal risk, as well as risks to bystanders. ( As I admitted earlier, I didn't know about these risks earlier in life, as I still believed I was invulnerable, and now have the resulting damage to prove it wasn't so.)  Anyway, graphic 2 outlines the risks that your machine impresses to those in the vicinity.
If you personally like it loud, now you know what risks you are taking.  If you like it loud for others, you can now see how you may be harming others with careless behavior.  If your machine emits more than 115 db, it only takes brief exposure to begin hearing damage.  But, it certainly matters how far away your machine is from the ear-to-be-damaged.

The second level of concern is the individual annoyance factor which varies with either waking or sleeping.  An alarm clock or telephone ring are designed to wake humans and draw their attention at 60-66db.  Noises this loud are intended to startle. Are you happy to wake up random people with your motorcycle during a drive by?  An AMA 100dBA motorcycle only needs to be 80 ft away to be equivalent to an alarm clock.  To keep from interfering with normal speech you'd need to be 150 ft. from their living room. Graphics 3&4 show how people perceive noise sources a equate their annoyance factor.  I also found some graphics (5 and 6) which were published by local government bodies depicting acceptable noise intrusion levels.

Graphics 7 & 8 show what happens in communities where noise such as loud pipes, have been collectively deemed a nuisance.  Having a loud exhaust means that there are places where you may not operate your machine and limit you access due to intrusive and disturbing machine configuration.

Graphic 9 is a precursor to what can happen when ALL motorcyclist are painted with the same characteristic brush.  You may claim they over reacted.  But, it is not difficult to imagine what the stimulus was that prompted making a sign to that effect.

I found myself strangely attracted to the device in graphic 10, and felt that just maybe there was something there that was worth adding to my tool collection. :)


I expect some may proclaim that our bikes were made before 1979 and therefore fall into a loophole of non-required compliance.  Technically, I agree to that legal aspect for FED and EPA..  However, that doesn't mean the states and localities can't take a more comprehensive approach to all two wheeled vehicles, especially those that are blatant offenders.  Certainly nothing will prevent them from issuing citations, if only for reverse harassment of the noise offender.  Almost all communities have a noise ordinances, and many have time of day/night restriction clauses.  These laws didn't get created because everyone kept quiet, out of consideration for others.


Some parting thoughts...

If you go out of your way to be discourteous to others do you still demand courtesy from others?
Or the reverse, if someone is discourteous to you, do you respond with courtesy.

If 12 loud bikes drive by a non-rider in a car or truck in traffic, do you think said driver is more or less likely to cut off the next bike they notice approaching? (Can always use the I didn't see you/hear you explanation.)  The basic psychology is that one normally wishes to eliminate intrusions into their life, either in a conscious or subconscious way.

A human scream is about 80 db.  This has been used to evoke a fight or flight response since the dawn of man.  Humans are pre-conditioned to respond in this way to these sound levels.
Do you want to reach into peoples homes to evoke a fight or flight response each time you drive by?  Are you actually inviting a fight?

You could say that humans weren't designed to interact with other humans with SPL's above 80-90db and natural phenomena only exceed these levels on very rare occasion.

After doing the research and thinking about it more, I don't really see why motorcycle are allowed, or need, to be louder than autos, actually.
If you operate you vehicle in a residential area and have any expectation to NOT annoy the residents, you should keep their exposure down below 70 db (60db preferred) at the destination.
For a 100db motorcycle that means stay at least 50 and preferrably 100 feet away.

The real answer is related to where and how much the noise is produced and subsequently delivered.  If all homes were universally 300 ft away from any roadway your AMA compliant bike could travel any where without annoyance apart from marching the rider and passenger toward tinnitus and deafness.  I expect, though that most expect to drive their bikes wherever there is a road and ignore any possible impact on residents within 50 ft (or 25 ft).  If so, you should have the responsibility to keep the bike at least as quiet as when it came off the showroom floor.

My front door is 75 ft away from street center, in case you are wondering  (I measured).

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline dave500

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 12:52:06 AM »
years ago a mate of mine got stopped by cops on his fully road registered yammy IT 200 going to his work at night,this bike wasnt loud by any means but because it was cold it was pouring smoke(premix bike)thats why he got stopped,,long story short he had to take the bike to a sound test station,so to better the odds i jambed a heap of steel wool in the exhaust,,it sounded like it had a head cold,(we trailered it there)
we get to the test station and their just finishing a test on a vw powered buggy that failed,,it was mechanical noise more than exhaust the guys figured then it was our turn,they had a simple looking machine i had been sussing out and couldnt get the tacho to work on the single two stroke so they couldnt get the required rpm,i said i could feel rpm so ill hold the engine at what they need,,so i just increased revs just shy of the sound limit leds and said thats the the rpm,,they signed off,,it wouldve failed otherwise,this is early 90s so its bound to be a bit more accurate now.

Offline Tintop

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 04:31:07 AM »
North of Toronto in Caledon they passed a Bylaw based on SAE J2825 about two years ago.  Mainly because of loud sport bikes & HD's using the Forks of the Credit Road.  The police offered free testing (twice) before it became law.  If you failed the free test you were told by how much, and given a warning.  Now they just setup a 'spot check', and pull you over.  Failure = ticket, no discussion. :)
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 06:16:43 AM »
I like the sound of a good motor, but find most Harley's too loud for my liking (prejudice?)

TT - don't you find them in stock form too loud?

PS. I'm ordering one of those sound level meters with the girl now!
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Offline CB500_k2

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 06:42:22 AM »
Your post on appropriate levels of sound has shamed me into putting the stock mufflers back on my Ducati Monster.  I am sure I have destroyed sound tranquility in my wake with unbaffled glass packs.  Thanks for the dope slap.
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Offline Greggo

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 06:49:26 AM »
I know this is a serious conversation and all, but I just couldn't help but be reminded of a certain comical character here...

Elmer Fudd, 1950 & 2003

Offline becken

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 07:10:26 AM »
Excellent TT. Unfortunately, there are too many owners of motorcycles (as opposed to motorcyclists) with the "hey look at how cool I am" syndrome. Are there any aftermarket exhaust systems out there nearly as quiet as stock that still let you retain the centerstand and let you change oil and filter without having to remove them?
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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 07:28:12 AM »
From seeing other posts and this one I think TT's post exists to show what damage and annoyance you are causing when you have an obscenely loud exhaust.  It is a great counter to those that say:

-I like the sound.
-I want to be noticed.
-I think you are getting performance gains.
-I think it is safer because other motorists can hear you.  (This one is the worst)

I too have a loud exhaust and need to rectify it.  I can blame the PO but I haven't even taken the effort to remove my muffler to see if it needs to be repacked.  I am registered as an antique in VA and that plate essentially protects me from all state laws but is unlikely to protect me from local ordinance. 

This might be a dumb question but wouldn't ANY 4 into 1 exhaust be very difficult to get down to reasonable DB levels?

Offline Greggo

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 07:31:05 AM »
Excellent TT. Unfortunately, there are too many owners of motorcycles (as opposed to motorcyclists) with the "hey look at how cool I am" syndrome. Are there any aftermarket exhaust systems out there nearly as quiet as stock that still let you retain the centerstand and let you change oil and filter without having to remove them?

Sure.  For our Honda 4's, there are MAC exhausts that are reasonably close to stock noise level, and don't change the functionability of those other items you mentioned.   

It'd just be super duper if we lived in a world where no one invaded anyone else's personal space, wouldn't it?   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)


PS: My bikes have stock exhausts, except my 500/4 which has a 4-1 with a proper muffler on it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 07:33:42 AM by Greggo »

Offline the technological J

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 07:32:25 AM »
Excellent TT. Unfortunately, there are too many owners of motorcycles (as opposed to motorcyclists) with the "hey look at how cool I am" syndrome. Are there any aftermarket exhaust systems out there nearly as quiet as stock that still let you retain the centerstand and let you change oil and filter without having to remove them?
i call them bikers( more worried about image and how much noise thier bikes can make) and normal motorcycle enthusiests motorcyclists... i dont really care to be called a biker

 most high flowing exaust allow sound to pass as well... i would think baffling sound would also restrict airflow
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 08:01:08 AM »
This is serious stuff. I have tinnitus. I don't know if it was loud mowing equipment i ran when i was younger, or loud motorcycles or loud music, probably a combination of all.

But I hear a constant tone ringing in my ears that never goes away...ever. I don't know what i would give, or have done differently to have avoided this now. I deal with it. White noise is a distraction. Music plays in every room and the shop all day.

But on a quiet evening on the back porch when you'd like to just drift away, there's this constant tone. Aaaarg! Mixed in with the occasional loud motorcycle on the street out front.   :(

Not only do you want to avoid this fate for yourself, you have no right to inflict it on others.
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Offline Gamma

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 08:20:22 AM »
I don't mind being called a biker.  I also have Tinnitus in my right ear.  Not from years of working in close proximity to military jet engines or even the loud music I like, or even bikes with non standard exhausts.  Just a foreign doctor poking about in it for wax.  And then prescribing something that my ear didn't like.

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2012, 08:27:02 AM »


Damn TT, we're gonna have to change your name from TwoTired to TooTechnical!  ;D

I hate the noise terrorist's too. Living in a 100 year old house it rattles my windows everytime some idiot with a loud exhaust, - usually a Harley or a diesel farm truck - or a 'thumping' stereo drives by.  >:(

BTW, I like how all the graphics have been viewed a few times each until you get to the one with the bikini - viewed 129 times!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 08:38:13 AM by Schmthaus »
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2012, 08:29:26 AM »
I have high frequency hearing loss. I like the sound of a good engine but it doesn't necessarily have to be loud. It can be loud and sound good without the rider being an #$%* about it by showing off to everyone else. I use ear plugs. I have a few extra pairs if anyone needs some. Also I sometimes wear a helmet on my Harley and I use synthetic oil. Dangerous combinations  ;)
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2012, 08:33:38 AM »
Lump in boom, boom car stereo enthusiasts and 4x4 enthusiasts that decide glass packs are teh awesome. And Harley d-bags that rev their aftermarket pipes at every chance they get to let YOU know they paid way too much for their bike. I hate them all.
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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2012, 08:40:32 AM »
I use ear plugs. I have a few extra pairs if anyone needs some.


Jerry, I hope they don't come pre-waxed! ew... ;D
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2012, 09:49:52 AM »
I have high frequency hearing loss. I like the sound of a good engine but it doesn't necessarily have to be loud. It can be loud and sound good without the rider being an #$%* about it by showing off to everyone else. I use ear plugs. I have a few extra pairs if anyone needs some. Also I sometimes wear a helmet on my Harley and I use synthetic oil. Dangerous combinations  ;)
I have a flat spot in my hearing also. the Doc said it could be from gunshots, loud music, or loud motors. i said yes to all of the above. he son I am amazed you have this much hearing left.

I also use eaplugs when riding for wind noise. I keep a bunch of them in my pack. I use them at work and sometimes forget to take unused packs out of my pockets.

Loud exhausts are very annoying for the public and while riding..
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Offline the technological J

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2012, 09:55:24 AM »
I have high frequency hearing loss. I like the sound of a good engine but it doesn't necessarily have to be loud. It can be loud and sound good without the rider being an #$%* about it by showing off to everyone else. I use ear plugs. I have a few extra pairs if anyone needs some. Also I sometimes wear a helmet on my Harley and I use synthetic oil. Dangerous combinations  ;)
how loud are stock pipes on a harley? ive been told that stock they are pretty quiet but the first thing "everybody" does is switch to a louder pipe
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 09:56:22 AM »
I like the sound of a good motor, but find most Harley's too loud for my liking (prejudice?)

TT - don't you find them in stock form too loud?
Have you checked a Harley that actually still has stock exhaust?

Every once in a while I encounter a Harley that is NOT loud and obnoxious.  These examples still have the stock exhaust from the factory.  I don't believe the DOT allows a new motorcycle to be shipped from the factory with loud exhausts. See 40 C.F.R. § 205.166.  This has been so, since 1983.  (80dB since 1986)

I learned from a friend who bought a new Harley back in the 90's that they all come with a quiet stock exhaust, but dealers remove them before customer delivery and install the customer's custom exhaust choice (based on sounds, looks, and promised performance).

Individual dealerships are not bound by Federal laws and can change the bike's equipment to meet customer demands.  In short, customers pay extra to counter federal standard and annoy those they ride among.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline the technological J

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 09:58:48 AM »
wow what an awesome reply in less than a minute!
70 KO...sold to fund the ST http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88800.0(Alpha)
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Offline bikerbart

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2012, 10:03:04 AM »
I literally just put my 341's back on last night and happy for it.Quieter and just plain work better on a stock cb750.I am putting my 4-1 on my project bike,With a better baffle in it.Its the rolling boom boxes that I absolutely hate,being from New Haven ct,they are everywhere.You can hear the rattling of every bolt in the car coming loose on the 400 dollar monte carlo with the 4000 dollar stereo.The Harley crowd is ,well that's another story altogether,D bags.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 10:04:43 AM »
It'd just be super duper if we lived in a world where no one invaded anyone else's personal space, wouldn't it?   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

At this point, I'd like people to at least be aware they are invading someone's personal space (or care that they are doing so), and recognize it as anti-social, distasteful, negative behavior.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 10:09:02 AM »
It'd just be super duper if we lived in a world where no one invaded anyone else's personal space, wouldn't it?   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

At this point, I'd like people to at least be aware they are invading someone's personal space (or care that they are doing so), and recognize it as anti-social, distasteful, negative behavior.

I'm with you TT.

While its true we can't always avoid invading someones space. Often by accident, or a lazy lapse, often smoothed over with an "excuse me please".

Its quite another thing when it is a conscious decision to do so.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 10:28:52 AM »
This might be a dumb question but wouldn't ANY 4 into 1 exhaust be very difficult to get down to reasonable DB levels?
Yes, if you mean after market source only.  The bike in my avatar (Cb550F) came with a stock 4 into 1.  To my ears, it is more quiet than the 4 into 4s of 71 to76, but not as quiet as the 4 into 4 of the 77-78 CB550K.

Don't forget the Cb750F models.  The stock 4 into 1 exhaust is quiet.
So, the answer is that it CAN be done. 

Honda was well aware of the EPA influence, and tried to stay ahead of the import game by rolling changes into the models as the effective date got closer.  Having a good faith relationship with a controlling agency is good politics as well as business.
"By state regulation, motorcycles manufactured in or after 1979 cannot exceed a noise level of 84 decibels (dB) when traveling more than 35 mph on a paved street or highway. "

Certainly you are aware of the many 4 into 1 exhausts available for more modern bikes that meet noise emission guidelines.  So, it is not a generic problem.  But, more of a supply meeting demand problem, imo.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

BrockSamson

  • Guest
Re: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 10:42:17 AM »
Yeah I am not seeing the advertisements for "Smooth and quiet". 

CycleX has a muffler I was looking at and they claim "best sounding" which means absolutely nothing. 

I am hearing claims that at lower RPM it is ok as far as noise but once it gets up there its incredibly loud.