Author Topic: Cam chain adjust spins round and round + glitter in the oil.... help? CB550 PICS  (Read 42609 times)

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Offline dave500

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the dowel that sits in the case and aligns into the barrel has a tiny hole through it,make sure this is thoroughly clear.

Offline 74750k4

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I'll be interested to hear what you end up using for ring compressors, and blocks to hold up the pistons, as you place the cylinder bank back in. I'm headed for similar work.

Offline DustyRags

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Dave- thanks! I'll make sure it's all clear. I'll probably also drop the sump at the next oil change, and clean it out (to clarify: I'm ALSO dropping the sump during this rebuild).

K4- me too!  ;D For blocks, I'll likely just grab some nearby wood- my bro's got a ton of scrap in his garage, so we'll likely just grab some likely pieces. For the ring compressor, I'm not sure yet. I might go without it, I might do the hose clamp trick, I might spring for an actual compressor- a lot will depend on how much compressors are and how bold I'm feeling.

Picked up a bunch of nuts 'n' bolts 'n' things along with a new tank emblem today. They don't have the pucks in stock right now, so that'll be another waiting bit... Also got new gaskets for the oil pump, so I'll have a chance to clean that out too. Y'know, while I'm waiting on the pucks... and rebuild the head... and clean everything... and... :P
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline bryanj

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Right

DO NOT touch the pistons unless you want to burn lots of oil

MAKE sure there is NO CRUD OF ANY TYPE in the oilways to the head and use new "Soft" washers either side of the L bracket bolts where the cam end caps attach(and on the top bolt that holds the tensioner)

You DO NOT need any type of compressor if you are patient and take care as there is a large taper on the inside of the sleeves

DO NOT take the outer cover off the oil pump unless you have a cover "O" ring which is not in the parts book but sizes and alternative goldwing part have been discussed many times on this board previously
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline DustyRags

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Cool, oil passages clear- can do. The dowels are out and clean, I'll run some pipe cleaners through the lower channels to make sure they're clean as well. I've already got a new set of crush washers in-hand- talked to Charlie (at Charlie's Place in SF) today, who got me all the parts I needed (almost- need to go back for pucks, he didn't have those in stock).

Can you give me some more detail on the mechanics of the pistons? Not meaning to doubt you, but that's in direct conflict from what was recommended by a mechanic who suggested lightly scuffing the slick spots on the pistons so a bit more oil would adhere to them and they wouldn't stick down the road. NOT the rings, just the pistons below the rings. Thoughts?

Good to know about the compressor- I'm inclined to try it without, the rings seem to have plenty of spring left, so I'm not hugely worried about that. Thanks for the confirmation on that!

And thanks for the line on the Goldwing o-rings! I figured there must be something, I just haven't gotten around to researching it yet. This makes life easier!

Didn't get any work on it done tonight, but inventoried all my bits and it looks like I'm just the pucks and the outer oil pump o-ring short of having a complete set of parts. Exciting!
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline dave500

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polish those lead in ramps on the cylinder liners,theyll slip straight in then.

Offline DustyRags

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Good call, Dave, I'll do that.

Bryan, 20 minutes or so of searching on SOHC for oil pump o-rings brings up a bunch of threads that seem to end with you saying "PM me, I have the o-rings you need" but never saying what size they are or any other info, nor anything about a comparable Goldwing part. Can you point me somewhere? I've got the whole rest of the kit, just neat the one outer o-ring. Seems ridiculous to order the whole kit from England when I've got most of it and can probably source the last one here in the Bay Area with no more than half a day or driving, tops. Help a brother out? Thanks!
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline Fritz

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20 minutes or so of searching on SOHC for oil pump o-rings brings up a bunch of threads that seem to end with you saying "PM me, I have the o-rings you need" but never saying what size they are or any other info, nor anything about a comparable Goldwing part.

Since I'm soon going to trace a left cover oil leak, I've gone through old threads and parts fiches and found the following:
The o-ring for the oil pump cover is sized 46x2mm.
Honda's part no is 91305426003. It's been used in CB350F (seal between cylinders and lower case), CB650 (same as CB500/CB550: oil pump cover), GL1000 (water pump).

Cheers
Carsten
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 03:44:30 PM by Fritz »
1976 CB550F

Offline DustyRags

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Fantastic! Thanks!
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline Fritz

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Fantastic! Thanks!

You're welcome! Beware: I just noticed, that I mistyped the o-ring size. It is not 42x2mm but 46x2mm.

Corrected that in my post above.

Cheers
Carsten
1976 CB550F

Offline DustyRags

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Copy that, Ghost Rider! The size is 46x2.
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline bryanj

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Sorry Mate I did do the O ring kits but the vast increase in postage costs made it more economical for you in the US to buy the Honda one. I believe the search function is playing up as I have posted two different part numbers before but havent got the books anymore.
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline DustyRags

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Cool deal, Fritz posted it above :) Thanks!
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline dave500

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visit your local bearing supply shops,they normally have o rings in metric and imperial,honda use some obscure odd ball metric sizes that dont compute at times like 13.7 etc,often if you take the part your sealing or a good condition sample o ring itll work with an imperial because of the oddball size,a place near me has a minimum sale of 5 bucks so i load up on common ones like the tappet and inlet ones if im only buying say oil pump ones.,hydraulic places that service earthmoving gear are good so are diesel pump and injector service places,they have a large range of copper washers aswell,,the approach helps,,,"i dont know if you can help me but i have this old honda and im looking for,,,," seems to work for me,,its more interesting for them than the stuff they do all day and they mostly go out of their way to help.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 12:01:46 AM by dave500 »

Offline DustyRags

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Awesome, those are great leads! Do you know anything about the durometer or composition I'll need?

My first step was calling Berkeley Honda Yamaha and seeing if I can get the Goldwing water pump gasket, which seems to be it. But if that fails, I'll try the local equipment stores.
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline DustyRags

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OK, it's the end of a long weekend, so please forgive any typos.

I have a couple of questions, so I'll put those up front:

1) #2 cylinder head was much easier to clean (I de-carboned them) than the others. It pretty much just scraped right off. It's very possible this one had oil splashed on it in the course of the last few week's proceedings, but I seem to recall that cylinder having a loose (or at least not very tight) plug. Coincidence? I think yes, but welcome any opinions.

2) A couple of the valves were tough to pull out of their guides. They both seemed straight when I got them out (pulled them by hand fairly easily, it wasn't hammer-tough, but neither did they slide out easily with a finger push). Bad news? It ran great before I pulled it apart, no smoke, etc, so I'm fairly certain they all sealed well. Thoughts?

Without further ado, I started off Saturday pulling the start motor cover and shift lever.



Next came the side cover, and hoo boy, was there some muck under there!



That all got scraped out in short order, the whole thing scrubbed with mineral spirits, and was serviceable quick enough.



Next I tried to get the oil pump unscrewed, but the bottom screw was just giving me fits. So I squirted some liquid wrench on it, and went to work on the oil pan. Got that off fairly easily, and cleaned it. A bit of sludge that looked like very finely powdered gray metal or something, but not much at all. The oil screen was like new. I cleaned the pan inside and out with a bunch of mineral spirits, scraped out whatever horrible glue the last guy in there has smeared all over the gasket seat, lightly oiled the gasket, and bolted the whole thing back on in the proper star pattern. Then I gave the oil pump screws a few more whacks.

It took a bit, and some more liquid wrench, but I finally got all the screws undone. Damaged the bottom one a bit, but not horribly. Pulled the oil pump apart, and found it to be totally clean, the outer cover barely scratched at all (I understand this is normal), and everything well within tolerances. Put the whole thing back together with new o-rings (thanks for the tip on the Goldwing gaskets, everyone). Then I ran off for some lunch and to pick up a new screw at the local Ace Hardware where I found an employee who is a former motorcycle mechanic! He got me hooked up with what I needed (screw, new brass-bristle brush after I wrecked my last one, and a plastic pipe fitting), and I went on my merry way.

Oh, and if you ever need anything for anything to do with engines in Oakland, DO NOT go to the O'Reilly's on Park Street. These guys can't find their heads from their asses. Didn't know what an impact driver was, even after I explained it to them, didn't know what gasket remover was and finally figured out they don't even carry the stuff anymore, didn't know what a valve spring compressor was, and when I called about lapping compound got "what? what? Never heard of it, is that a brand? Huh, ok, hold on..." By the third time I got that IN A ROW, I called the O'Reilly's on Broadway, they knew what it was and had it set aside for me when I got there.

Anyhow, late afternoon, back to the bike, got the new screw in and everything buttoned up nice and neat. And then realized I hadn't taken any photos because everything went so quickly and smoothly and was so pristine!

So here it is all back together.



Next I got the cylinders scrubbed up as clean as they're gonna get, oiled anything that'll rust and wrapped 'em in plastic.



And finally took some brake cleaner to the #1 cylinder. It cleaned right up!



It looked so good that I came back the next morning and did the other three. #2 went really fast- it was all gooey rather than crunchy. I think that's because it got some oil splashed on it a week or two ago when the bike was on the side stand with the oil still in it, but that's also the one that may have had the loose and black spark plug. Got the piston sides sanded very light, and checked the vertical ring tolerances on the two middle ones (forgot on the outers, will do that before I put the head one). Well in tolerance.



Remember that plastic pipe fitting I bought yesterday? Booya, homebrew valve spring compressor!



Mounted (read: "jammed") into the end of the drill press. Special thanks to my brother for letting me use and abuse his tools while he's on vacation! Boy, I hope he never reads this...



Since he uses the drill press for woodwork, I plastic wrapped the table, and then threw some bits of wood on there to keep the head at the proper angle for compressing those springs nice and straight.



Worked great for compressing the springs, but then I couldn't get to the fiddly bits I needed to. Out came the hack saw and the whole became a slot.



Aside from some trouble keeping the head at the proper angle, it all went lickety split. Eight valves, removed!

And now, my second question: Two of these things grumbled a bit coming out- not badly, I didn't need any tools, but unlike the 6 that slid out with the touch of a finger, two of these needed a bit of tugging. It almost felt like they had some deposits on them or maybe weren't quite round straight (edit: I wrote "round" the first time instead of "straight." It was late, I was tired- I meant straight). If there was any indication of a valve leak, I'd be more concerned, but there wasn't. They all looked totally round straight, there was no obvious difference, nothing. Anything to worry about?

All the valves were tight in their guides, no side-to-side motion. The seals are still flexible, so I guess I didn't need to do this. But now I've got it started, might as well keep going. Man, I hope those things are included in the Vesra gasket kit!

8 holes, nice as you like it.



And 8 valves, neatly sorted into an egg carton for safe keeping.



And just to be REALLY sure, I closed the lid on them. This actually seems to be a very good way to keep everything sorted and in one place.



Next up: valve seats this week! I suspect it'll a a formality at best (knock on wood!) given how clean the rest of this bike is. But what the hell, it's something to learn! At any rate, I've hit and surpassed the "bounce point" where you stop tearing down and start building back up, and that's exciting! The case and pistons is prepped, the oil pump checked out, the oil strainer checked out, the cylinders are prepped... just gotta clean the head, lap the valves, put them all back together, and restack the bastard and then I get to ride my very own motorcycle! Hopefully it doesn't blow up beneath me... :)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 11:32:35 PM by DustyRags »
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline Oldschoolmachinist

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I moved my bike across the shop to be nearer the workbench and the GL front end I found on Craigslist. It's a process...

Offline bryanj

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The usual reason for valves being a bit tight is a slight burr at the top of the stem where the rocker adjuster hits. LIGHTLY regrind the champher, if the valve is still tight rotate it in the guide and see if the head "wobbles" proving the stem is bent--Hopefully not BUT RE READ THE MANUAL about valve cover fitting---then read it again several more times till you understand the possible damage and why it happens.

You are definatley going about this the right way and you should get a nice running bike at the end
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline DustyRags

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Cool, thanks, I can do that :)

Can you define"champher"? I assume that's the top bit where the tappet hits it?

I've read up on valve cover fitting and already have the tappets backed out and am scrounging for rubber bands to get them all lashed down (or up, to be exact) before I fit it.
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline bryanj

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OK
Champher is the 45 deg angle on the corner betweeh the side and top of the valve stem. If that don't make sense i will do a pic and scan it when i finish work at about 4am UK time!!
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline DustyRags

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That makes perfect sense, and is enough info for me to go all research crazy on it. Like I do  8)

Get some sleep over there!  :o
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline dave500

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that egg carton trick is great,the burr on the very tip of the stem can be buzzed off with a fine file,its not the very tip so much as the edge,if you remove a valve and it binds youll see it,its not much often,,if you force the valve or wiggle it through youll gouge the inside of the valve guide.

Offline TwoTired

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that egg carton trick is great,the burr on the very tip of the stem can be buzzed off with a fine file,its not the very tip so much as the edge,if you remove a valve and it binds youll see it,its not much often,,if you force the valve or wiggle it through youll gouge the inside of the valve guide.

Yes, I didn't have the heart to tell him he may have scored the valve guide. But, since you brought it up...
 It's hardly ever a good idea to force things. 

Find a bore light and look into the guides for marks.  Clean first with a bore mop.  .22 caliber swab will likely do the job.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline DustyRags

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Yikes, that's terrifying. I didn't see any burrs, but I'll double-check. It didn't seem like a sudden onset, which made me think bent, but I'll check it out. Might also just be a bit of varnish, I don't think I was putting near enough pressure on it to score metal. Certainly no wiggling necessary.

Maybe? Hopefully? Hate to black flagged at this point! The work day just got a lot longer...  :-\
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline Frostyboy

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So Dusty, are you sure that you're happy with the old chain that's been flogging around in there or are you going to put a new one in just to be sure?
Just sayin'.  ;)
Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators.
We haven't met yet.
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