Topic: New CBX pics: Back into the vintage Honda game...

[Tintop]

Looking good Syscrush.   Put a fork brace on it, biggest improvement you can make to those early 80's Hondas.  And yes the stock rear shocks suck, maybe some Hagon 2810's.

[Syscrush]

The shocks on there now are Fox twin-clickers.   I think that with some dialing in, they should be able to work a lot better than they do now.

Fork brace and emulators would help out this front end a lot, but I'm not going to do that work since the forks will be swapped for custom sprung & valved USD forks over the winter anyhow.  Shocks will be replaced with modern YSS, Penske, or Ohlins.  I originally planned to swap to more modern wheels, but I've decided to stick with the boomies.  They look better and better to me the more I look at the bike!

[jaguar]

Nice CBX.

They are cool bikes

[strynboen]

yes fork is a veak point on erly bikes...i keep mine forks stock..but this fork brace is a must..a opgrade to newer forks is better

[Syscrush]

I found that emulators, brace, springs, and rebuild would cost about as much as a complete 'Busa front end.  I have decided to take an approach that will require more time & money than just a 'Busa swap, so I'm saving my pennies for that instead of upgrading the 35mm wobblers.

[sazaver]

One of my dreams. Amazing look, very muscular... And you have to have a proper riding video for us! we need to hear those 6-hammers in action!

[FunJimmy]

I found that emulators, brace, springs, and rebuild would cost about as much as a complete 'Busa front end.  I have decided to take an approach that will require more time & money than just a 'Busa swap, so I'm saving my pennies for that instead of upgrading the 35mm wobblers.

I agree that a modern USD fork and those ultra cool gold wheels would be the "beez knees", especially if you get a set fo gold forks and rotor carriers. Front ends are super affordable on eBay these days.

Keep the stock stuff for future use if needed, but that bike would rock with the upgrade. If I can help in any way, let me know.

[Syscrush]

I agree that a modern USD fork and those ultra cool gold wheels would be the "beez knees", especially if you get a set fo gold forks and rotor carriers. Front ends are super affordable on eBay these days.

That was my first thought, but I think I have to be very careful about mismatched golds wrecking the look.  So the way I'm thinking now is to use black forks with either chrome or DLC sliders.  There's some chrome on the engine at the same level as the sliders, so I think that would look OK, but I also think that the dark DLC tubes would look pretty rad, and make the effect of the USD's a bit more subtle - so it's not immediately obvious what's going on there.

[FunJimmy]

That was my first thought, but I think I have to be very careful about mismatched golds wrecking the look.

I see what you mean, so I did a bit of research and found Ohlins to be just about spot on. 

[Syscrush]

I haven't updated this thread in like forever!

Some shots from last spring, after the crap non-Fox shocks were replaced with custom-valved, 4-way adjustable YSS shocks...  A bit more money than Ohlins, but more adjustment than the ones they sell for the CBX, the custom valving, and a color scheme that works much better with the bike overall.  I also upgraded to a 16mm pivot bolt, fitted a new aluminum swingarm from Trac Dynamics, new chain & sprocket, and all-new wiring harness including RFID keyless ignition.

This winter, the serious modding began.  Upgrading to the later-model 39mm forks, with new TNK tubes, Sonic springs, and AK-20 cartridge internals, adjustable for rebound & compression.  These forks should be a world apart from the stock wobbly 35mm damping rod crap that I was riding before.  I also added a fork brace, and increased the offset by 10mm to bring trail down from 120mm to something a bit more nimble-feeling.

Top triple with KTM Duke handlebar risers/clamp in place. Machinist insisted on making that nice smooth replacement (or maybe just cover) for the stock nut.  This shape keeps me from having the forks protruding so far above the top of the triple, and will also place the bars a bit higher for some additional comfort.



I am very pleased with how the custom triple works with the stock gauges.



Here comes the mea culpa... I know that some of you are gonna be pissed that I let him chop up an original top triple. I don't feel very good about it - when he called and said that he wanted to do it, I was pretty upset. But the end result looks like a pretty cool solution to retain the original instrument cluster and headlights.



Nice beefy bottom triple.



I told him that I didn't want to see the bolts from the front, and he did a great job of keeping it nice and clean.



Kept the stock fork spacing so that I could use that sessy SuperBrace. I'll be kinda nervous until I see all the upgraded brake stuff actually fit with the wheel assembly, but he`s confident it`ll work - and these results make me inclined to believe him.

I also upgraded to an Earl's 13 row oil cooler and a thermostasis motorcycle thermostat.

Next up: upgrade to 4-pot Brembo calipers and 310mm rotors...

[FunJimmy]

Lookin like a fantastic suspension upgrade. I'm surprised that you found AK-20 cartridge kits for conventional forks. I was under the impression that they only fit upside down forks. Triples look awesome too.

BTW, what rear sprocket do you have on there. It looks simular in construction to a SuperSprox hybrid sprocket.

[bwaller]

Looking good, very worthwhile work.

[Syscrush]

Lookin like a fantastic suspension upgrade. I'm surprised that you found AK-20 cartridge kits for conventional forks. I was under the impression that they only fit upside down forks. Triples look awesome too.

AK-20's are available for a bunch of RSU forks, including your 43mm Yammies.  They also do the 39mm Showas found on a lot of vintage Hondas and a ton of Harleys.  They're popular with the SV crowd for their 41mm RSU's as well.  For the forks under 41mm, they don't do preload adjusters, but for 41's and bigger they do.


The machinist kept calling me with questions about this and that as he worked on the triples, and it was becoming clear that he wasn't really doing exactly what I asked for, which was starting to REALLY stress me out.  When he sent the pics, I had to go for a walk before checking them out because I was sure I was gonna be disappointed.

WRONG!  It's not exactly what I asked for, it's 10x better.  I'm very happy with this guy.

BTW, what rear sprocket do you have on there. It looks simular in construction to a SuperSprox hybrid sprocket.

Give the man a fish!  It totally is a SuperSprox, and it is badass.   I haven't done enough miles on it to confirm or deny their claims of longevity.

[Syscrush]

Looking good, very worthwhile work.

Yeah, I'm really happy with it.  I'm just the guy doing the research, sourcing the parts, and paying the bills.  I was very lucky to get hooked up with a good machinist, and I also have a good relationship with a local shop that does a lot of electrical work - and I've done enough business with them that they know how f'n fussy I am and they invited me to spend some weekends in the shop to go through test-fitting and installing the swinger & shocks.

As for how worthwhile it is - I am a fervent believer that suspension improvements can change the whole character of a bike for the better, while money spent on engine upgrades tend to be incremental improvements at best.

It's funny, I often hear stuff like "I don't need a great suspension, I'm not a racer", but I contend that good suspension is at least as important on the street as it is on the track. I've ridden some gnarly tracks, but never one that was potholed like city streets in the frost belt. Also never been surprised by washboard pavement in a blind turn on the track.

As far as I'm concerned, hitting the brakes while turning on rough & dirty pavement taxes a motorcycle's suspension at least as much as anything most of us are likely to encounter on a track.  When I upgraded my SV650 from cartridge emulators to good cartridge forks, I noticed the improvement more on the street than at the track.


The shocks and slightly decreased rake and trail transformed the bike.  The less-flexy cartridge forks, stronger triples, fork brace, further reduction in trail, switch to handlebars, and massive brake upgrade should put it in a new league.  Once all of the kinks are ironed out, my expectation is that it'll be one of the very best handling and braking CBX's on the street.  Almost all of the USD-converted bikes I've seen are using transplanted triples from bikes with much less rake, and their smaller offset will yield a lot of trail.  Also, I believe that the cornering traction gained by going to 17" wheels and modern radial rubber is offset by the significant loss of cornering clearance that comes with how much the smaller diameter tires and shorter forks lower the bike.


It's funny to say given how incredibly ostentatious even a stock CBX is, but I think that other than the oversized rotors, the suspension setup on this bike will make it something of a sleeper.

[Syscrush]

BTW, about the shocks... My suspension guy (Rick at Cogent Dynamics) had some prior experience with the YSS shocks, and he said that he thinks the quality of construction is on par with Ohlins, but where Ohlins far exceeds YSS is in initial setup.  Ohlins suspension is ready to go on the bike out of the box and will almost always work great right from the start, while the YSS stuff is delivered with the damping way off.

Because of the more appropriate color scheme and the greater adjustability, I decided to go with YSS, with the expectation that the valving would have to be redone.  When they got to Cogent, he put them on the dyno and sure enough, the stock damping was awful.  But he was able to sort it out, here are the before and after plots:

Before (red) and after (blue) custom re-valving by Rick at Cogent. In addition to the curves now being where they belong, you can see that it's a lot more symmetric plus that crazy hysteresis is gone.

[strynboen]

like this smaller oil lines.(and all the other stuff)...
fuse box..is it moved dovn under the side cover??


i vork on a fairling mounting..and need a kaburettor opgrate..it starts to leak from acc pump...

you are right.i vill not spend any money on engine update on a cbx..its front and rear suspension,,and brake power..it stands back against newer bikes..
but from a sohc to a cbx, all is big improvent..for some sesons..then improvents must be made..as you learn the limits of the standart bike

[dhall57]

Three bikes I would like to have someday:

Honda CBX
Kawasaki Z1
Suzuki GS1100E

[Stev-o]

Seven bikes I want someday:

CB750........check [x5]
CB550........check
Z1 900.......check
H1 500.......check
RD350.......check
H2 750...looking...
Vintage Ducati.....dreaming....

[jas67]

Some bikes I want to own someday (dreaming):

RC30
RC45
RZ500
RG500
NS400R
NS250R

[FunJimmy]

Any updates?
Calipers?
Chain guard?

BTW, your signature should have links to your builds so we can easily find them. :-)

[Syscrush]

Any updates?
Calipers?
Chain guard?

BTW, your signature should have links to your builds so we can easily find them. :-)

Rotors are from a 2007 GSX-R1000.  I chose them because they're flat and have the same # of bolts as the wheels, but a significantly larger bolt circle diameter - I figured that all of those things would simplify the adapter fabrication.  I also chose them because the carriers are very lacey and see-through, and I wanted my wheels to still be a major feature of the bike:

Calipers remain TBD, because the 65mm Brembo OEM cast calipers I was planning to use are ~2mm too wide.  My machinist thought that they could be made to work with the stock fork spacing (which let me retain the SuperBrace) by milling a bit off the inboard side, but the casting there is just too thin - there's no spare material.  I'm still researching sizes for OEM cast calipers, but it's looking like if I want a 4-piston (or 6-piston) caliper that actually clears the wheel, it will probably have to be billet.

And some heartless bstrd keeps posting pics of his sessy Brembo GP calipers and giving me daydreams.  Honestly, I have so much money into this front end by now - between the rotors, adapters, custom triples, upgraded fork internals, SuperBrace, etc. etc. etc. that I'm starting to think that even if I found some Nissin or Tokico calipers that would fit, it would be chintzing out.  Spending a week looking at billet calipers from Brembo, Jaybrake, Harrison, and Discacciati has kind of made even the cast Brembos look low-rent. WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME??? 


As for the chain guard - the machinist saw the pics of your setup and didn't feel like he could make something similar work for my bike.  I think he's out to lunch but if he's not comfortable taking it on, I'll have to find someone else who will.  I think I'll get some plastic square tube and mock it up myself with a Dremel before I go looking for someone to do the fabrication for me.


If you wanna see more about how the decision-making and build have progressed, here's my build/research/shopping thread from a CBX forum.

[FunJimmy]

Rotors are from a 2007 GSX-R1000.  I chose them because they're flat and have the same # of bolts as the wheels, but a significantly larger bolt circle diameter - I figured that all of those things would simplify the adapter fabrication.  I also chose them because the carriers are very lacey and see-through, and I wanted my wheels to still be a major feature of the bike:

All good reasons and they look great.

Calipers remain TBD, because the 65mm Brembo OEM cast calipers I was planning to use are ~2mm too wide.  My machinist thought that they could be made to work with the stock fork spacing (which let me retain the SuperBrace) by milling a bit off the inboard side, but the casting there is just too thin - there's no spare material.  I'm still researching sizes for OEM cast calipers, but it's looking like if I want a 4-piston (or 6-piston) caliper that actually clears the wheel, it will probably have to be billet.

Combining parts from the thousands of donor bikes to get the best match is never going to be easy unless you have tons of free time and a wrecking yard to pick through. I've generally found that eBay sellers will do their best to measure parts which is important because the combination of parts has to be considered as a whole before machining can commence.

Finding an additional 2.0mm of clearance shouldn't be that difficult. It can be achieved by spacing the rotors away from the wheel, back machining the calipers and in the design of the caliper adapters.

Like a conventional spoked wheel, the blades of your mag wheels are angled so machining the caliper to gain clearance may only effect the lower edge. Have you cross sectioned a caliper to determine how much actual material can safely be machined? How about spacing the rotors a little closer to the fork legs. Maybe 1.0mm can come from that and the balance from the caliper. Can you post a direct on picture of the rotor/fork spacing?

As for the chain guard - the machinist saw the pics of your setup and didn't feel like he could make something similar work for my bike.  I think he's out to lunch but if he's not comfortable taking it on, I'll have to find someone else who will.  I think I'll get some plastic square tube and mock it up myself with a Dremel before I go looking for someone to do the fabrication.

Sounds like you need a different machinist. Send Frank 754 a PM. He's great at thinking this stuff through and has tons of hands on experience with vintage bikes.

[754]

I am thinking of making a set of trees for myself, probably 210 or 215 mm for 41 mm fork.
 Better 5 mm wider than too narrow.
 Are any of your calipers,  split down the middle?
 Am thinking,  you could mill 2 mm of the mounting face, and trim 2 mm off the pistons maybe?

[Syscrush]

All good reasons and they look great.

Yeah, I'm really pleased.

Combining parts from the thousands of donor bikes to get the best match is never going to be easy unless you have tons of free time and a wrecking yard to pick through. I've generally found that eBay sellers will do their best to measure parts which is important because the combination of parts has to be considered as a whole before machining can commence.

That's exactly the approach I'm taking - digging up threads (or posting my own) where people have measured caliper widths, calling vendors of new calipers, and emailing eBay sellers.

Finding an additional 2.0mm of clearance shouldn't be that difficult. It can be achieved by spacing the rotors away from the wheel, back machining the calipers and in the design of the caliper adapters.

Like a conventional spoked wheel, the blades of your mag wheels are angled so machining the caliper to gain clearance may only effect the lower edge. Have you cross sectioned a caliper to determine how much actual material can safely be machined? How about spacing the rotors a little closer to the fork legs. Maybe 1.0mm can come from that and the balance from the caliper. Can you post a direct on picture of the rotor/fork spacing?

The Comstar wheels have very wide spokes for such a narrow rim.  And being 19", they're wide pretty far from the axle.  He knew it would be close so the rotors are already spaced as close to the forks as either of us is comfortable with.  Even when I had CB1100F rotors on there, they were less than 1mm from the fork leg, so I knew that a 4-pot setup would be very, very tight.  That's why I gave up on a USD + radial caliper setup - I spent hours at bike shops measuring the space between the two inboard faces of calipers on probably 100 bikes and found that only the older Triumph Tiger came close.

Back machining the 65mm calipers is apparently not doable.  He didn't section them, but he did disassemble them to measure how much material was there and determine that there's just not enough extra to remove (unlike the vast majority of Tokico, Nissin, and AP calipers he's fitted in the past).

He got his hands on some of the older 40mm Brembo cast calipers and he said that they'll fit.  Those are harder to find than the GP calipers, but when you do find 'em they're a lot less coin.  And a lot less bling.  I have some time to decide over Christmas.

Sounds like you need a different machinist. Send Frank 754 a PM. He's great at thinking this stuff through and has tons of hands on experience with vintage bikes.

I have a ton of admiration for Frank and have had a bit of back & forth with him about this stuff over the last year.  Ultimately, I decided to go with someone local so he can have the whole bike at once and deal with fitment of everything.

I have another machinist lined up to do the chainguard.  I also have a buddy with a milling machine and a lifelong desire to ride a CBX, so if I can mock up something decent myself in plastic, I might have a crack at doing it myself in Al, too.

[Syscrush]

like this smaller oil lines.(and all the other stuff)...
fuse box..is it moved dovn under the side cover??

Yes, the fuse box is under the right side cover.  A bunch of space was freed there when I swapped out the stock Alt for a more modern one with a built-in regulator/rectifier.  The ignition is a keyless RFID setup with the sensor hidden on the bike.  Both of those changes together made the top triple a lot simpler/cleaner.