Author Topic: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Rebuilt to NEW OLD STOCK -- PIX ON PAGE 50  (Read 245111 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #425 on: March 29, 2014, 11:19:25 PM »
Alright, I gave it a shot and it did break free. The washer is shaped like a c-clamp, not sure why, wouldn't this cause leaks?

I cleaned up the cylinder in hot soapy water and gently removed the corrosion at the entry point with a wire cup on dremel. Once clean, I noticed that there seems to be some kinda scratch on the inside where the opening of the C-shaped washer was. Is this thing toast?

I've seen marks like those before when that malleable C-washer is used. The master cylinders varied these parts, don't seem to have rhyme nor reason for 'why'. Last 4 years I've rebuilt 3 of them, and 2 had the C-washer, one was a regular round one (?). They were ALL stuck, just like this one. Once the fluid leaks, it finds friends outside the clean brake chamber, and they feast on the aluminum and corrode it. This makes it swell and discolor, like yours.

The seal area is up inside the tube near those little holes to the reservoir, like Terry was trying to describe above. If there's no scratches up there, all is fine. Make sure to wet the parts with brake fluid when you slide them in, or they will stick and nick themselves from the dryness. While they will still work, it will shorten their lives.

The K0-K2 before 12/71 all had brake reservoir lids labelled "Use J1703 Fluid Only" (among other hostile-sounding words). This became "DOT3 or J1703a" in the 1972 era. Soon that yielded to "DOT3".

The DOT4 type is a semi-synthetic: avoid that or the cups will swell and slowly dissolve, in my experience. It also seems to eat the rubber O-ring in the caliper over time, causing the pad to not retract, and drag and squeal. (These last statements may spark an oil-thread-like argument here, I'm just stating my observations with DOT4 lately, like the past 7 years or so. I'll apologize in advance...).
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #426 on: March 30, 2014, 09:26:10 AM »
Thanks Mark, as always for the detailed explanation! I'm relieved to know that this is still usable, the scratch is only on the upper end half of the piston. The piston itself has a boatload of crud on it, but the other half of it is very clean. And from what I can see shining a light down the bore, all of it seems intact past this one scratch on top.

So after searching, I gathered that it is recommended to gently hone this bore before reassembly, but I can't find the infamous "Two Stone" hone anywhere. Can a long mandrel with say 2000 grit sanding roll do well enough?

Again, thanks @goldarrow, @Terry, @Hondaman for all the invaluable advice.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #427 on: March 30, 2014, 02:10:45 PM »
Cleaned up the rotor and measured it with calipers at several spots, average thickness is at around 7.05mm. Doesn't seem to have any deep gouges but I can't find anyone to deglaze it. Factory manual says lower limit is at 6.0mm and not sure how much will be taken off when getting it deglazed. Should I reuse this one or find a better one?

Offline BPellerine

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #428 on: March 30, 2014, 04:58:13 PM »
looks ok to me Ed,the rotor itself is stainless so hard to deglaze .I think that member godfrey has a service for them.bill
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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #429 on: March 30, 2014, 06:08:35 PM »
+1 on Goddrey on his parts and services.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #430 on: April 01, 2014, 11:58:41 AM »
Edward, haven't checked on Godfrey's service, but we used to Blanchard grind them. See what he does, not easy material to work with, Bill If yours isn't grooved too much, might be fine, Ive got 10-15 we can check. Godfrey's might be the way to go. ;D
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #431 on: April 01, 2014, 12:20:50 PM »
Thanks guys, I had initially contacted Scottly after seeing his thread in the services offered section. He didn't have a way to resurface it though. I'll PM Godfrey and see if what he suggests. Worst case, I can fine disc sand off the light corrosion and live with the grooves. Unless Mr. Benton finds me a shiny one ;)

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #432 on: April 01, 2014, 12:28:35 PM »
I'm looking! ;D
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Godffery

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #433 on: April 01, 2014, 02:52:38 PM »
Thanks for the good word guys.
Replying to PM now.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #434 on: April 01, 2014, 08:07:07 PM »
Thanks for the PM with detailed explanation Godffrey.

Made some time today to finish up on the MC. I couldn't find a small enough hone, so I just rolled up a third sheet of 2000 grit sanding paper and reamed it a bit. Worked well, and that thing that looked like a scratch is pretty much gone, was just brake fluid crud. I didn't push it too hard, this is how it looks right now. I will clean it out with denatured alcohol when it returns from Powderman then put it back together.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #435 on: April 01, 2014, 08:12:34 PM »
Ed, that is not the correct MC for a K1, it should work fine though.  I believe the grooved sides of the reservoir indicate it is from a much later sohc.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #436 on: April 01, 2014, 08:16:21 PM »
Ed, that is not the correct MC for a K1, it should work fine though.  I believe the grooved sides of the reservoir indicate it is from a much later sohc.
Mine's a K2, but you're probably right, the gauges, controls etc. were all from a later bike, and I replaced all that with the correct ones. At this point, I'm losing the will to care and just wanna ride ;) I'm sure once Marc does his magic, it will be hard to tell  ;D

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #437 on: April 01, 2014, 08:27:40 PM »
that's how I feel too generally...hang in there though
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #438 on: April 01, 2014, 10:27:15 PM »
I think Sean's nailed that feature: it looks like the K6/F0/F1 (or so) version. Those appeared, along with another similar one, up to the K7/F2. The last of them had a little brake switch (mechanical) up on the lever instead of the pressure switch on the steering neck.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #439 on: April 02, 2014, 12:44:51 PM »
Grrr! I can't help it  >:( I really tried to not care.

It has to be correct, so, on to other things that need done for now, as I wait for the correct MC to arrive.

Offline Tews19

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #440 on: April 02, 2014, 12:48:36 PM »
Hey shoot me a PM if you want a MC proper for the K2.... Pay shipping and it's yours. It will need to rebuilt. I can ship tomorrow as I am back in the bike scene
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #441 on: April 02, 2014, 10:44:40 PM »
Hey shoot me a PM if you want a MC proper for the K2.... Pay shipping and it's yours. It will need to rebuilt. I can ship tomorrow as I am back in the bike scene
Sweet! Glad to have you back Nick, thanks for helping out!

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #442 on: April 04, 2014, 02:12:59 PM »
After meticulously cleaning out the battery box, I realize it not the correct one  >:( which means the harness is incorrect as well as the K2 didn't have a starter safety unit or a 3 fuse holder. This bike is horse$hit I tell ya, complete and utter horse$hit. Time to slow down and see what else is wrong before working on it further...




Offline timbo750

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #443 on: April 04, 2014, 03:05:10 PM »
Hang in there. The result in the end will be so much more rewarding.

Project 1 CB750 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126864


Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #444 on: April 05, 2014, 08:38:45 PM »
The K2 correct MC from Nick got here today, THANKS NICK!

Second time around this went quicker, torn, cleaned, boxed up and ready to go. Also, this one has a circular washer instead of the C-shaped one, so the bore is in much better shape.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #445 on: April 06, 2014, 12:18:30 PM »
I'm about half way through tearing down the oil pump for a full rebuild, and the shaft seal with the metal outer band is being a nightmare. Any tips on getting this out safely? So far the pump looks fairly scratchless on the insides but it might be a different story once I clean it thoroughly. I'm a little hesitant about going nuts with awls and pins in there.

There is a little bit of crap stuck behind the screen. I read around here that the screen can be bought from a boats place as its the same part used by Honda for their boats? Is this true? I would like to get the junk out from under it but if there is no guarantee for a drop in replacement, I'll leave it alone.

Also, do gasket kits (Vesrah from Jp specifically) include the gasket that is used in the oil pump body?

I've left the pump as is for now, will go read up some more and wait for suggestions. I believe once the oil pump is done, I can officially change the build thread title to inspection as the tear down will be complete.

Offline jerry h

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #446 on: April 06, 2014, 02:16:50 PM »
I bent the end of a small screwdriver, then was able to easily just tap it out from the outside. 






The gaskets do not come in any gasket kit.... here are the numbers needed :

2) 91305-426-003
1) 91208-MN1-771
4) 91302-377-000





There are other ways, this worked really well for me.  Put the new center seal in the freezer for a little bit before tapping in and it will go in very easily.

Hope this helps.
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #447 on: April 06, 2014, 03:20:15 PM »
Thanks Jerry, I have all the o-rings, the shaft seal and the infamous rubber stopper and spring. I got it all in Elan's super kit, and the only thing it didn't have was the screen.I was asking about the flat rectangular gasket that goes between the largest two parts of the pump. Don't have that either.

I'm having trouble getting the old shaft seal out. I tried to gently pry it out but its so old and horrid its starting to tear into bits. The metal ring that's on the outer of the seal is probably what is fused with the pump. Not sure how to get them to separate safely.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 03:25:20 PM by edwardmorris »

Offline timbo750

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #448 on: April 06, 2014, 08:03:18 PM »
I would like to know more about the strainer and the associated boat part as I have not heard this before. Mine too had crud stuck in it and it is now slightly damaged after removing.

Project 1 CB750 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126864


Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- ENGINE TEARDOWN
« Reply #449 on: April 07, 2014, 10:48:27 AM »
I would like to know more about the strainer and the associated boat part as I have not heard this before. Mine too had crud stuck in it and it is now slightly damaged after removing.

Project 1 CB750 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126864
This is where I read it, I suppose we need to page Hondaman on this one as I've had no luck finding it on any boat parts site. Maybe the part number changed?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101408.msg1241884#msg1241884