Author Topic: K2/K5 Drag project  (Read 121562 times)

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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2014, 10:36:07 PM »
I actually don't have the drive that comes off the Fuel pump, and Hilborn doesn't offer one for this system.. that's the kicker  :(

And according to Blue71turbo I don't need the electric fuel pumps or the surge tank.. just fuel tank straight to the pump
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 10:40:09 PM by TreyAllen »

Offline johno

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2014, 02:11:49 AM »
Hi bro,
re my salt gearing ........will be different to yours ................ best bet pick your max RPM and use the SOHC owners forum , technical section, gear ratio speed calculator , its a ripper, tyre circumference, top gear ratio changes with models etc , use our calculator and presto,   top speed with what ever sprockets you have.

re mine , my goal was to set gearing for max RPM at 9,500 ( hoping 10,500 RPM BUT THAT WILL BE MY BONUS )
18 inch rear tyre Bridgestone battlemax.
My numbers and I chose 520 size made 17 &18 fronts and 43 and 41 & 40 rear  with K gears except F3 for 5th gear

RPM.......Sprockets   ......K     ..............F
9,000     17:41                              153 mph
              18 :41                              162
              17:42                               149
              18:42                               158
              17:43             150            146
              18:43             159            154
              17:45             144            139
              18:45             152            147
10,000  17:43              167            162
             18:43              177            172
              17:45             160            155
             18:45              169            164

cheers Johno

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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2014, 09:04:54 AM »
Looks like 18 Front and 43 back it is... for now!  8)

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2014, 11:57:48 AM »
Trey......Reference Tires:  Most of the high-speed tires are tubeless radials............with that wheel you will have to run a tube............metal stems and caps are required.

I plan to get a few 'break-in' miles on my motor with an 18-48 sprocket combo with 530 chain.  I will also have a 19-tooth CS and 37-45 rear sprockets for the salt. Each tooth on the rear is between 2 and 3 mph.............but each combo has an affect on the ability of the motor to pull to the desired max.

I run 50-lbs. of air in the front and start with that in the rear.  My first adjustment for any traction loss would be to slightly decrease the rear pressure. Several competitors fill their tires with nitrogen.
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2014, 06:23:06 PM »
I found this master cylinder on a set of drag bars that came with the lot..

aside from the lever being slightly bent, It seems to be immaculate on the inside.. haven't seen one like this

« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 11:13:15 PM by TreyAllen »

Offline 754

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2014, 09:53:27 PM »
Name is on it..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2014, 10:54:14 PM »
Yeah, I know what it is.. Just didn't know if it was rare or not

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2014, 10:56:57 PM »
Grimeca is an Italian manufacturer of brake related parts they are still in business as far as I know but i'm not to sure about parts for their vintage stuff..?
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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2014, 11:08:28 PM »
Ah cool

Other than fixing the lever and acquiring a SS brake line it's good to go!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 11:13:02 PM by TreyAllen »

Offline Tintop

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2014, 06:35:40 AM »
Ah cool

Other than fixing the lever and acquiring a SS brake line it's good to go!

I'd probably add a seal kit to that list, just in case. ;)
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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2014, 08:58:45 AM »
All the rubber bits seem to be like new, All of this stuff sat inside someones house for a majority of the last 40 years..

But with a project like this I tend to replace everything that could possibly fail.. So good call tintop!

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2014, 03:58:05 PM »
Real good call! Replace it if you can! Before you go...you better be able to stop!  ;D Bill
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2014, 09:16:48 PM »
At Bonneville the long course is 11 miles..............5 miles to slow to a stop. In 2009 Chris Carr lost his chute from the BUB Streamliner and need 5.5 miles to stop. He was still short of hitting 'Floating Mountain by more than 10 miles.  Brakes are for parking in the pits or IMPROUND 8)
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
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Offline 754

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2014, 09:34:12 PM »
LOL I remember riding with Old Scrambler and his buddies. We stopped at a restaurant area, and Chris Carr showed up,  and said Hi to us..
 He was driving like a maniac, passed us later..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline saltcitycafe

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2014, 11:59:25 AM »
At Bonneville the long course is 11 miles..............5 miles to slow to a stop. In 2009 Chris Carr lost his chute from the BUB Streamliner and need 5.5 miles to stop. He was still short of hitting 'Floating Mountain by more than 10 miles.  Brakes are for parking in the pits or IMPROUND 8)

You forgot the one other thing brakes are....false hope that at 300 MPH they are goimg to do any good lol, or the glass half full approach. They are there to give you something to do in case of emergency....it won't help but you will keep yourself busy lol

Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 09:25:39 PM »
In all this talk about the brakes, and looking at old pictures of the AT&SF(although no where near related) I noticed Sr had started with a spoke wheel in the front,then went to mags on both. I haven't been real excited about running spoke wheels either..

I recently was traded a 81' Cb650 for some labor on a customers bike. I noticed that it had dual disk front brakes, air ride suspension in the forks, and drum brake in the rear. And the classic Honda Comstar mag wheels.. They are 16" rear and 19"front

Also threw on the 530 43t rear sprocket and plan to run the 530 17t CS. For now..

So I'm considering using these mag wheels for the land speed. Some high speed rated tires to suit,SS brake lines, and some sort of new master cylinder

Also opened up the t3t4 my neighbor was kind enough to donate to the project, going to have to find someone to make me a manifold.

Anyway, thanks for keeping up fellas!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 11:03:36 AM by TreyAllen »

Offline Don R

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2014, 03:12:56 PM »
 You will need a pump sized for the rpm and engine size, if you use a belt drive you can adjust pump speed,  the barrel valve linkage adjusts the fuel/throttle opening ratio. Your system will need a bypass valve to return excess fuel to the tank, it has a replaceable pill to tune the fuel pressure. It may also need an additional spring loaded high speed bypass to control fuel pressure at top rpm. It requires a manual fuel shutoff valve too.
 There are still guys using these engines in mini sprint and dwarf type cars, They run the pumps direct off the end of the cam sometimes. I saw a dual, magneto/ fuel pump drive that fit the right end of the engine too.
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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2014, 03:37:58 PM »
Thanks for the wise words Don,

You have really cleared up the system and what it needs, I was going to try to run a belt off the crank if possible as how it was used before. I was told from Hilborn that they make a new pump, but that they do not provide a drive for it, nor do they supply a Plenum.I would have to get these things made up myself

I have heard of the combination Mag/pump.. I believe it has more of a triangular shaped case than my ARD does.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 10:17:42 PM by TreyAllen »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2014, 03:57:10 PM »
What fuel pressure does it need to run? there's plenty of electric fuel pumps around now that weren't when this system was popular...Another thing, you could run late model fuel injection of a GSXR or similar, for example, GSXR 600 injectors are said to flow up to 300+ HP...I am going to do this on my 1000cc build... ;)

These are my modified GSXR throttle bodies to suit the 750/4   8)



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750 Bitsa 900cc
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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2014, 09:57:35 PM »
Those are sweet mate, I would love to have a more modern version but this hilborn just happened to be in my parts lot and had a manifold for a turbo already on it.

I also got a update from hilborn.. There was a mixup on part numbers and I now have the correct reciept for the injection. It was ordered in 84 for a 1000cc Honda for a company called "Turbo Technology" out of California.

Looks to be running at 32psi.. Was set up for a turbo

any info?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 12:43:37 AM by TreyAllen »

Offline sethdhawkins

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2014, 10:06:25 PM »
All a man needs in this world is someone to love, if you can't give him that, give him hope, if you can't give him hope...just give him something to do!

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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2014, 10:10:10 PM »
And not to hop subjects, keep the fuel injection info coming!!

But I have these choice of wheels and i'm also trying to decide on. These look to be in great shape after a little cleaning

The front is stock, and the rear is a 3.50 x 18 race style wheel. Check em' out

Offline sethdhawkins

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2014, 10:28:42 PM »
Shouldered aluminum rims always look the business to me. The speeds at which you intend to travel, it probably doesn't matter that the rear looks sweet. Is it down to a choice between these and the mags?
All a man needs in this world is someone to love, if you can't give him that, give him hope, if you can't give him hope...just give him something to do!

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Offline NalleyRacing

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2014, 10:33:51 PM »
I'm going for stability over everything.. I could sell all my wheels and try to locate a set of Lesters, they seem to be a bit more narrow and would be ideal for land speed.

I also have a stock rear wheel, 18x 2.50 or so I believe

The shouldered wheel is more for the drag set up ill be going for after August.. but any ideas?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 10:36:40 PM by TreyAllen »

Offline sethdhawkins

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Re: Trey's Cb750 landspeed- Oil cooled, Fuel injected, turbocharged
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2014, 10:50:03 PM »
I certainly don't know anything about going very fast over a salt flat, but after a google search regarding tire profiles and compounds, it seems the consensus is that "narrow is more betterer." After reading from this: http://saltflats.com/traction.html

And then there's this excerpt:
"I overheard a discussion between a couple of motorcycle guys a while back. Both these guys were speed limited by traction on the salt. They both rode very powerful Nitrous fueled bikes. They were comparing the differences between two popular “Z” rated tire brands. Dunlop and Metzler. While Traction was a significant problem for both of them, the only discussion I heard was about which tire was most resistant to “chunking”. That is, throwing pieces of rubber out of the face of the tread face, due to power loading and the immense centrifugal forces. Concerns about running a tire that will simply survive outranks traction problems. Catastrophic tire failure at high speed often results in serious wrecks."

That statement kinda scares a risk taker straight.

"Experience shows that narrow tires provide better traction at Bonneville. Bonneville traction strategy requires just about the opposite to what works at the local drag strip.
My own unproven theory explaining this fact is that, at speed, wide tires sort of “Hydroplane” on this bit of loose material. I also suspect that wide tires at speed are near “Hydroplaning” on air alone. It must take “some” time to force the air outward towards the side of the tire, and at “some” speed, air would pile up and be forced under the tire, eventually providing about the same traction one finds on an Air Hockey table. The narrow tires, especially ones with little tread, a rounded profile, run at maximum recommended inflation pressures, have less tendency to trap air and seem better able to bite thru the loose dusting on top. The proof of this is in the pudding. Look at the photos of the Bonneville cars that have proven to be fast. Drive tires on the successful cars and bikes are, narrow with a very pronounced round profile. That round shape, combined with high tireair pressure yields a very small “tire contact patch”. As unlikely as that combination sounds, it is the proven winner on the salt."

I know this was discussed previously in the thread, but I thought there was some useful info there.

As for wheels? How about some super narrow Excels, laced with some 6 gauge Buchanan spokes, trued to perfection?
All a man needs in this world is someone to love, if you can't give him that, give him hope, if you can't give him hope...just give him something to do!

1972-ish CB750K
1974 CB450
1974 CB360
1976 136' Ocean Going Tug