Topic: Lost & Lovin it! 1979 Honda CB650 - First Bike. First Build.

[juan_carlito]

No worries. Check the cam chain tensioner carefully for cracks on the rubber surfaces.

Ok will do. Is this a common problem on this bike? Bikes in general?

Quick update . . . nothing has changed lol. Hurt my back at work and then it was my wires birthday so the last few days have been a write off. Hopefully I get some stuff done by the weekend and I can update with more pics etc. Going to try and get the new gaskets into the engine and swap in the new rear shocks. And then . . . I might chop the ass end off her lol . . .  Stay Tuned!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The cam chain and cam chain tensioner were weak links on the CB motors.

[juan_carlito]

The cam chain and cam chain tensioner were weak links on the CB motors.

Oh ok. Thanks for the heads up. Its appreciated.

Now if only I could get all these "chores" around the house done and get back to work on the bike lol

[calj737]

There's 24 hour in a day, it's up to you how you choose to spend them...

[juan_carlito]

There's 24 hour in a day, it's up to you how you choose to spend them...

Totally agree . . . thats why I sleep less than most lol!

Feeling accomplished!
  Well I finally did it.I decided it was about time I start taking the engine head apart and replacing gaskets. I was avoiding it as I was worried as a first timer I would mess it up and ruin the bike. Turns out theres really not that much to mess up. Well I say that now as I still have to reassemble lol. But I got it all taken apart and cleaned up (just quick clean as I'll have to do it all again when I get more stuff and attempt valve lapping and replacing piston rings….and painting the engine maybe) and now I just have to put the new gaskets etc back where they belong and put it all back together. I'll post pics tomorrow for those interested.
I only found 8 washers though and theres 12 cylinder head bolts?? After looking into the holes I notice the 4 centre holes have are different…so my assumption is the 8 washers go on the remaining bolts and the 4 centre don't have washers? Any feedback appreciated.
Also I am pretty sure in my rebuild kit theres new copper gaskets for my exhaust…at least thats what I think they are lol. Either that or a part for the bottom end….do the copper gaskets seem like they'd be too thick when your looking at them? I know they get squished down when installed so thats why I think the 4 pieces I have are them. Again I'll post pics tomorrow.
Anyway thats all for now as it's 2:30am and I still have a bunch of work around here this weekend!
 Thanks for reading

PS. The broken bolt the was in the cylinder head cover came out no problem. And I found a couple bolts on the parts bike that might work…just slightly shorter so we'll see. I still need one to replace one of the stripped head ones anyway so might as well get a few. Or file down the head of the stripped 8mm down to a 7mm . . . hmmmm

[juan_carlito]

Photo Update

Ok so as promised pictures so far . . .


Cylinder head cover - will replace this gasket


Bearther covers will also get new gaskets


Camshaft removed


Removed 6 rubber seals


Suspended cam chain like forum members suggested


Beer breaks are important


First look at piston tops and old gasket (Left side)


Right side


First look at valves  . . . future project


Cleaned up quickly . . . will do better when doing valves


Other side


Also just a quick clean on piston heads…


Other side


New gasket

Now it's time to put everything back together. Filed down the stripped head on the one bolt to a 7mm so that should be ok now. Going to try the slightly shorter bolts to replace the other stripped and broken one. If not I'll hit the hardware store…Then check the oil pump screen as suggested…Put the carbs back on…put exhaust back on,maybe add baffles…clean up and put back spark plugs (new ones if needed)…add fluids….and test fire!!
I assume I'll want to turn the engine over a few times by hand first or with no spark kinda deal to get lubes going where they should be.
Anyway, thats it for now. . . fingers crossed!

[juan_carlito]

 Update

Ok . . . So I have everything I took off back on.Put new seals on the breather covers, cylinder head cover, and cylinder head (+ O-rings) as well as the oil pan. While the oil pan was off I cleaned the gunk out and cleaned the screen. All in all not bad for a 35 year old bike…few little pieces of POs blue gasket crap that was everywhere but no random pieces of metal or anything gnarly so I'm pleased there. Also installed the exhaust with new gaskets, even if it took a few minutes to figure out how the split ring collar things went back in . . . Now I have to reinstall the carbs add fluids and hook everything back up and test fire! Fingers crossed.
Also have to rebuild the master cylinder, bleed breaks, install new mirrors, the license plate bracket and tail light, new rear suspension, mount the headlight, and mount the new speedo n tach more permanently than I have them now.Then once I figure out the wiring she SHOULD be good to go! I'll still have to re-jet and tune and figure out what I am doing for a seat..…and in the future lap the valves, replace piston rings, rebuild the front suspension, new paint, new tires, etc etc etc lol
I did take pictures but didn't post them as  . . . well they don't really look too different lol. The seals just look a little nicer. If anyone wants them posted though just ask. Also, when replacing the 6 rubber seals that cover the head bolts do you use some sort of silicone or locktite OR install dry? I saw both done when previously watching youtube videos . . . thoughts???

[calj737]

That "blue gasket crap from the PO" would worry the bejeezus out of me. Finding it in the oil pan is a pretty good indication it has made its way through the engine. You would do well to remove the oil pump and clean it, and inspect the oil passages from the head to the pan for clear flow.

Run solvent through every orifice and make sure it flows through without obstruction.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The fact that you have some type of RVT in the pan is no bueno. I know you did not want to do a full teardown of the motor but it is advisable.

[juan_carlito]

I guess i should clarify. When I said there was some of the blue sealer crap in the oil pan and it was "everywhere" . . . I meant it was used as a sealer for the oil pan and that seal had been damaged and was everywhere. SO not sure if the couple pieces were drawn in there through the engine or if they fell in when removing. With that being said perhaps looking further won't be a bad idea as the same sealer was used as well on the cylinder head cover.
 All I meant when I said I was happy with what I found is that I was happy there was no metal flakes or signs of serious damage etc.
Guess its on to removing and cleaning the oil pump next and see what I find! Gawd way to make a guy work lol

Thanks for the concern and heads up

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

We just wouldn't want you to pass on looking if there are trouble sign, get the motor together and BANG the motor grenades.

[juan_carlito]

Well a quick update is in order I suppose. Tonight I did the same thing I have done for the past week . . . tried to figure out wiring.
New mini speedo tach are both working (minus the high beam indicator light??) and blinkers all blink when they are supposed to and at the right rate. Brake/running light only works when brake is pushed, but I think this is a grounding issue on the running circuit...we'll see and the headlight is not hooked up yet. I am hoping that part goes easy.
Next step fabricate some brackets for everything and figure out where to hide the wiring mess now that I don't have the stock headlight housing  . . . weeee wiring is fun

Oh and so far I have not discovered any further signs of the infamous blue crap (rvt) being anywhere it shouldn't be. SO as long as that luck continues I am almost ready to button her back up and put in some fresh fluids and finally start her back up! (I hope lol)

Then re build master cylinder....Check brakes....figure out what I am doing for a seat....then test ride!! Further mods over the winter but I want at least one ride before snow flies.

[juan_carlito]

GOT IT!
First off thanks to everyone who's helped out thus far!!
  2 more blown fuses while trying to trouble shoot with the battery still hooked up lol but in the end I figured it out. The black and brown wire off the light are for the small secondary bulb that is on when running and ignition in "P"...One to power one to ground.
The lack of running light in the back is due to the light being on the same circuit as the front one that works in "P"...from what I can tell it should also activate in the "on" position but only does sometimes....or after I sit in "P" for a second first then switch to run...is this a bad connection or a weird factory setting? I have no clue. Might wire a second line to the back from the hot line up front so the tail light is always on as well as on in "p"....would hate to deal with the "ol law man" cause that light decided not to work while on the road lol.
Still have to properly connect everything though....either bullet connectors or solder and heat shrink?? we'll see. For now I am just STOKED that everything is working!!!

After cleaning up wiring its on to brakes and then hopefully one ride before snow flies lol! Oh . . . right . . . I need a seat too :p

[calj737]

JC - you're diagnosis of the wiring is not correct, at least not per the factory diagram. The BRN is not a ground. GREEN is ground. BROWN and BLACK are 12v switched from the ignition.

Here is the color-coded factory diagram that confirms what circuits are powered by differing key positions.
http://manuals.sohc4.net/CB650/cb650wiring.jpg

If your tail light is not working when the key is turned, then you have a connection problem along the path, or within the ignition switch itself. I'm glad you've got it to "work" but for it work reliably it needs to be wired correctly lest you continue to short out fuses or not have correct lighting while riding.

[juan_carlito]

JC - you're diagnosis of the wiring is not correct, at least not per the factory diagram. The BRN is not a ground. GREEN is ground. BROWN and BLACK are 12v switched from the ignition.

Here is the color-coded factory diagram that confirms what circuits are powered by differing key positions.
http://manuals.sohc4.net/CB650/cb650wiring.jpg

If your tail light is not working when the key is turned, then you have a connection problem along the path, or within the ignition switch itself. I'm glad you've got it to "work" but for it work reliably it needs to be wired correctly lest you continue to short out fuses or not have correct lighting while riding.

Yea I re thought it this morning after some sleep. Going to rewire the black and brown from the headlight to corresponding black and brown off stock wiring. Should give me running light when key is turned and also have the light in "P" position too….also going to trace the wire back from the tail light. I think its a loose connection at the ignition but want to check all the way to be sure. Perhaps 2am isn't the best time to wire a motorcycle lol. Thanks for the info by the way!

Oh, and blown fuses so far have all been from me trouble shooting without disconnecting the battery and shorting out circuits with bare wires….lesson learned…..but just in case I picked up another 5 today lol

[juan_carlito]

I re-wired the head light black and brown so instead of the brown going to ground it now goes to the same brown as the rear. Now when in "on" position the rear running light seems to be working and the small secondary light on the headlight only comes on when in park. Otherwise the headlights low is always on as running. I am happy with this unless someone points out a flaw in my system lol
 Also chopped the rear portion of the frame off where the back seat etc would have been. Looks kinda cool I think, but lack of a fender needs to be addressed before riding lol. Also discovered that the back rest pad that was on the stock bike is almost exact shape I need for a seat. going to use it as a template to make a new one! Then just hoping the new lowered suspension isn't too low . . . if it is well then I guess I'll have to look into hard tailing her

[juan_carlito]

Feeling good!

Well its about time for a proper photo update since it's been awhile. I had not been taking may photos because I have only been working on wiring, and taking a bunch of pictures of wires in various spots on the bike didn't seem very exciting to me lol.
Anyway, the bike is wired and working finally. Big shout out to everyone that helped but especially @Jetblack over at Chop Cult who seems to be the man when it comes to wiring ANY motorcycle! I have however yet to decide what to do with the battery and the connectors,rectifier,etc etc that was under the stock seat...they can stay put for now and I'll look at it again over the winter! But for now all the wires are wrapped up nice, new connections where needed, and everything is working properly....plus I feel pretty good about myself lol. My only complaint is without the stock headlight housing I have a bunch of wires up front I don't like. They are currently bundled up and wrapped in an old leather wrist cuff/bracelet I wore for years (all I could find lol) but I will be on the lookout for a way to hide em all in the future.
I also forgot to take pictures of the process but I chopped a few inches of her ass end. First alteration to the frame itself and I like it! Funny how a couple quick cuts can make a stock bike look like a bobber that quick! Now I need a proper seat as the one you'll see in the pics below is actually the back rest cushion pad from the "sissy bar" rack thing that was on there. It fits pretty well though so I might just alter it a bit and re cover it for now till I make a better one. Also going to need a rear fender but need to look into that a bit still as I want to keep the bobber look and just run a fender strong enough to hold a person with a small pad on the fender itself (At least for now, I have an idea for a rear seat set up later) but all the pics I find like this are hard tail bikes and the fender has a strut off the farm to help with weight. SO not 100% sure how to mount everything to operate with rear suspension. *any tips?* Now I have to rebuild the master cylinder and check over the brakes. If thats good I'll put new fluids in and see if she still fires up!
Still lots to do to reach my goal, but considering I bought this bike as a non running project bike and am hopefully a few small jobs away from having a running and rideable bike....I am pretty fuc%!#g stoked.
Ok pictures . . . .


Lighting and gauge placement upfront (photo is pre final wiring obviously)

 
Chopped rear end w/ temp seat


View with rear lighting placement


Just another view of the bike with chopped frame


New ride height. Stock was 32" at seat and 27.5" at frame. (Pictures previously posted)

As always thanks for checking out my build thread and any feedback is appreciated! Stay Rad!

[calj737]

You need to shorten the brake linkage connection from the forward controls. That arm is too long and will hang in the first half decent speed turn you encounter.

I realize with the forward control, and chopped pipe you have space issues, but you better rotate the arm and re-connect to raise the arm and rod, or change the cam arm and use a inline bend on the rod.

And you may want to seriously consider capping the ends of the seat hoop to prevent the infiltration of water, dirt, bugs and other assorted items that will find their way inside. Like a prankster dropping nuts and bolts in to let you enjoy the rattle every mile....

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

In addition to capping the ends of the frame rails, I think you'll need a rear fender (I'm sure it's in the works) to keep all kinds of road grime from kicking up onto your back.

Don't let go of the bars, or you'll be in for a rough ride on the tire! 

[juan_carlito]

In addition to capping the ends of the frame rails, I think you'll need a rear fender (I'm sure it's in the works) to keep all kinds of road grime from kicking up onto your back.

Don't let go of the bars, or you'll be in for a rough ride on the tire! 

I have a plan in place for the end caps and I believe I mentioned needing a rear fender . .if not I meant too lol.

As for the forward control linkages they are just loosely in place right now, they will change before final install. But thank you for pointing that out as I would have not known until learning the hard way lol.

[juan_carlito]

I really need to update this thread!!! So much has happened. But for now here is a post I made on another thread in regards to finally tuning the bike.

"Well.....Took the pods right off and zip tied some fabric over the air intakes to keep out debris and took er for a ride to see if the pods where restricting any ports...ran like #$%*! That was not the problem lol. But then I decided when I got home to drain the carbs individually into glass jars and compare how much fuel came out....They were close at 1 and 2. and 2 was close to 3. But 4 was low and none were actually the exact same...SO I checked the manual and cut out a measuring tool and set the floats to .50 in as suggested.And then I had an idea.... I changed out my modified main jets and put in the stock set again....then I re installed the stock air box and re lubed a sticky throttle cable so the throttle actually snapped back to close instead of sticking slightly open :p I also set the idle adjuster screws to 2 turns out as a starting point. The only thing I can't do that I want to is replace the stock idle jets . . . I don't have another set. . . So in theory everything should be far more balanced now. The idle jet circuit will still be rich clearly but hopefully I will be back at a good base to start tuning from. I did roll it out of the shop and start it up. Still required little to no choke, but was still slightly warm from previous test ride. Still idled well around 1000rpm and if I tried to crack it open really fast it stumbled a little, but if I eased it up in throttle I was able to get up to 5000rpm without an issue. I stopped there as it's 1am and the family is asleep and seeing as I have cut off exhaust I don't want my wife and neighbours planning my accidental death lol
Hoping to get a quick test ride in tomorrow and see where I'm at! Who knows if I am really lucky maybe I can find somewhere or someone who has a set of idle jest I can grab, then someone said I could probably get it tuned with a simple needle shim and float adjustment. Fingers crossed!!!"

[juan_carlito]

OK! Been awhile since I updated this thread…So quick photo update from stages in build I never posted
These are all going to be photos I took off my photo bucket page. But I am not posting them all just a few to give you all an idea… If you want to see all the pics I load there just search 'JuanCarlitoOnline' and my page should come up!! Heres the link ---->http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/juancarlitoonline/library/1979%20CB650%20Bobber%20Project?sort=2&page=1

OK . . .  Lets begin!

One thing I did was black out my exhaust…just a rattle can job with high temp paint


Here the exhaust is back on the bike


Another shot of exhaust




Played with some seat ideas . . .


Played with the idea of a sissy bar..


And briefly tried to be fancy with paint lol


Ended up going all black with a gloss clear coat . . . and covered the skate deck seat . . .  I miss the raw metal tank


Another shot of the seat. Covered with foam and vinyl from an old seat



Was considering selling to buy a different project so took some photos, heres a couple

Post 1 of 2

[juan_carlito]

Post 2 of 2


Made this little screw driver out of a lamp shade topper, a broken screw driver and some solder….now I can change the idle screw settings without removing the carbs lol


While trying to diagnose the running issue I tried running no filters to see how the airflow effected the issue . . . this did NOT help lol


Made a home made float height tool . . . it gets the job done ok...


Took the carbs apart again to check the needle clip position only to find out that there is only one option!! Ended up adding a washer as a shim


Playing with the idea of a real rear fender instead of my little stubby plastic one...


Also looking at different ways to lock out the rear end until I can get a real hard tail set up…this is my favourite so far but would mean a new seat and relocation of battery/electrics


Thinking something more like this but with shocks replaced with struts might make more sense fore a temp solution


BUT this would look way cooler




Decided the lowers looked like #$%*….So I cleaned them up . . . and added some paint…. I like it better now.


Figured I'd do the fender too . . . also moved up the light and repositioned the horn


Side by side of the exhaust . . .


An instagram (@Bearded_Bobber) post trying to decide on some exhaust tips…I moved the shorty baffles into the tips as well to make removal easy in the future


And this was the problem all along! A seized up Automatic Timing Unit . . . Click image for video


And I finally got to ride the bike for real, on the highway, at speeds, and in ALL the gears at high RPM!!! (Dad is on his 81' Virago 750 project

Since the last pic I have added a little more black paint and basically just been working out ideas as to which direction to go with locking out the rear. Just adding struts would mean I can keep the current seat and leave the battery/electrics alone but would have to either narrow the fender or widen the frame….. By locking out with the angled tubing from tank to axel I could leave the fender fat but would have to get a new seat and relocate all the electrics and battery and would be far more permanent of a "temp solution" in case I did want to sell later….Still have to play the pros and cons game a bit more before I commit . . . BUT at least she runs now and can easily hit 120kmph which is where I stopped as the test ride was with no insurance or license
Will update again soon with photo of the plugs after the test run, some more photos of the whole bike at its current state and any other stuff that may happen by then. As always thanks for checking out my build! Its been a blast so far.