Poll

Powdercoat doesn't 'touch up' well from chips, rocks, etc. Many of us have powdercoated the frames: would like to know if you would do it again, after it's had some years on it?

Yep, in a heartbeat.
23 (59%)
Probably: didn't hold up like I thought.
1 (2.6%)
Maybe: looks OK, nothing special about it. (Or, I like the OEM version.)
10 (25.6%)
Probably not: had some issues.
3 (7.7%)
Don't ever talk to me about powdercoat again, that $#@! stuff...
2 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: January 29, 2015, 03:23:34 PM

Author Topic: Frame: powdercoat, or not.  (Read 9223 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« on: October 01, 2014, 04:23:34 PM »
Powdercoat is durable, but can chip. It's thick, and gets into things so you must clean/scrape/grind it off certain places (like engine mounts, swingarm pivot points, inside of rear axle spacers, etc.).

Lacquer/enamel is simpler to apply, easy to touch up, MUCH cheaper, and if done right can last 40 years (mine did!). It doesn't hide much, so it doesn't smooth out the little "ugly" things in the production frames, though.

Tell us what you think, if yours has some age on it?

I have 5 bikes I'm a-building, most of which are bare frames right now. I'd be interested in knowing what everyone thinks about this part of it?
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 06:34:28 PM »
There are hundreds of different Powders today Mark, they don't necessarily have to be thick at all, talk to member Powderman, he's a "proper" powder coater... ;D ;)
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 08:52:33 PM »
Tape off all the places you do NOT want covered. The coater will probably re-tape them with his heat tolerant tape or whatever they use. I missed a couple places and it was tough to remove but that's a good sign.

My guy did a base coat AND a clear coat for better protection.
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Offline brooze72

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 08:57:50 PM »
4 years now on my frame, no complaints, still looks perfect.
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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 03:22:12 PM »
No complaints with PC!
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Offline martin99

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 03:29:14 PM »
I've had good and bad experiences with PC. I think the trick is to find someone who knows motorcycles, and won't run your parts through an industrial process with a bunch of garden railings. Be wary of super cheap quotes!
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 03:36:05 PM »
I've had good and bad experiences with PC. I think the trick is to find someone who knows motorcycles, and won't run your parts through an industrial process with a bunch of garden railings. Be wary of super cheap quotes!

You hit bthe nail right on the head mate, thats why i referred to a "proper" powder coater earlier... ;)
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Offline Stoli

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 07:34:50 PM »
I've had good and bad experiences with PC. I think the trick is to find someone who knows motorcycles, and won't run your parts through an industrial process with a bunch of garden railings. Be wary of super cheap quotes!

You hit the nail right on the head mate, thats why i referred to a "proper" powder coater earlier... ;)

+1 

One reason I like to get frames powder coated is that the guy I use does the prep and the coat for $250-$300. I'm all for doing as much as possible myself but when I can drop off a rusty, greasy frame and pick it up a week or so later and get a like new frame back, I don't have to think real hard about that one.
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Offline Blackfin5

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 07:50:46 PM »
Absolutey.  Cleans so much easier than paint.  Black fingernail polish hides little chips nicely.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 07:57:27 PM »
One of your choices Mark in your poll question should have been " I like to keep it stock as possible" I may have hit that one.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 07:57:54 PM »
Can you choose to have the PC'er do either a heavy coat or choose a light coat? I just wondered what they usually do ?  ???
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Offline Vinhead1957

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 09:51:38 AM »
Prep is 90% of a good job either way.  Either way you may be surprised that rust hides under paint.  I found rust spiders everywhere under the factory paint job.  I like power coat cause it bonds to bare metal.  For the shade tree guy a good etch primer and automotive paint will suit their need

Offline gto_ron

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 05:39:27 PM »
I just had my 350F frame sandblasted.  I'll coat it with epoxy primer and then urethane enamel.  It resists  gasoline and brake fluid.  It won't chip like PC can and if I need to get to bare metal I'll just sand it down.  I do have quality painting equipment

Several years ago I built two Jeep CJ7s for a customer, one had a PC brush bumper, the other brush bumper I just painted.  After 5 years the painted one looked the same; the one that was PC was 50% rust.  I just don't think powdercoating holds up to rough treatment.



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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 05:59:23 PM »
I just don't think powdercoating holds up to rough treatment.

That couldn't be further from the truth, Powder coating is a very good, tough product if done properly, Metal can NOT rust if prepared properly before coating, I powder coated my nut and bolt box 30 years ago, its even been inundated with flood water and still no rust, as i said earlier, when done properly you can't beat powder coating, thats why its so popular as an industrial strength coating all through the manufacturing and building industries... Powder coating has come a long way since the 1980's, there are literally 1000's of different finishes, in saying that, there are good powders and not so good powders, thats why i recommend an expert at doing automotive parts...... This is my guy... His father owns an industrial coating business, lots of experience... ;)

http://www.robertoscustompowder.com.au/Gallery.aspx?ID=13



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Offline gto_ron

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 08:05:06 PM »
Sorry Retro

"That couldn't be further from the truth"

you can't compare a parts box to brush bumpers being driven off-road in all weather conditions, scraping tall brush, going through mud, gravel, dirt,etc.  Powder coating is fine for bike frames and show car frames and maybe nut & bolt boxes but for rough treatment go with a good primer & paint. 

regards

Ron


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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2014, 10:04:01 PM »
One of your choices Mark in your poll question should have been " I like to keep it stock as possible" I may have hit that one.

Right you are!
I modified the "middle" question, 'cuz that's sorta what I meant by that one.
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2014, 10:44:04 PM »
I voted PC after the fiasco that was my attempt at painting the frame with a rattle can. Granted a "proper" paint shop quality job would yield a more accurate stock appearance, I've had great luck (with help from Marc/Powderman) with powder coat. Paccar Black 55% semi gloss is damn near 100% close to the stock frame black, and done right, it looks amazing and is more durable.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2014, 01:41:14 AM »
Sorry Retro

"That couldn't be further from the truth"

you can't compare a parts box to brush bumpers being driven off-road in all weather conditions, scraping tall brush, going through mud, gravel, dirt,etc.  Powder coating is fine for bike frames and show car frames and maybe nut & bolt boxes but for rough treatment go with a good primer & paint. 

regards

Wasn't having a go at you Ron, my parts box has about 1000 {sh1tloads} of different nuts and bolts in it and I made it and powder coated it in around 1986, its been half way round the country and beat to #$%* but it had good quality Dulux powder on it and it hasn't failed yet, its a great example of good powder,  powders these days are much better. I would go with either good powder or a good epoxy {epoxy is very strong but fades if not applied with a clear coat} for the best toughest finish hands down. I paint industrial coatings,  thats my trade I've done a lot of powder coating {mostly industrial}, electro static spraying, Acran, when it was used widely {mining equipment} as well as a pile of industrial polyurethanes and epoxies. You would be amazed what is powder coated these days, including most Bull bars and nudge bars used on 4WD's...  ;)

Edit, a couple of things I left out that should be of interest, Powder has a far better abrasion resistance than any paint and remains pliable for many years {resin based}, it is also 100% solids, which is far better than any paint , it is also unaffected by fuel, brake fluid and other chemicals and has a very low to nil toxicity, it is food grade and classed as a "green" product unlike any  paint or epoxy. Epoxies have poor UV ratings and should have a polyurethane clear coat over them to stop powdering and fading.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 05:36:32 PM by Retro Rocket »
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2014, 05:13:14 PM »
Sorry Retro

"That couldn't be further from the truth"

you can't compare a parts box to brush bumpers being driven off-road in all weather conditions, scraping tall brush, going through mud, gravel, dirt,etc.  Powder coating is fine for bike frames and show car frames and maybe nut & bolt boxes but for rough treatment go with a good primer & paint. 

regards
Is there proof primer and paint are better?
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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2014, 05:39:50 PM »
Sorry Retro

"That couldn't be further from the truth"

you can't compare a parts box to brush bumpers being driven off-road in all weather conditions, scraping tall brush, going through mud, gravel, dirt,etc.  Powder coating is fine for bike frames and show car frames and maybe nut & bolt boxes but for rough treatment go with a good primer & paint. 

regards
Is there proof primer and paint are better?

Paint is definitely not better than powder coating in the instances Ron quoted, actually its the complete opposite, Powder coating has superior abrasion resistance, actually, it has better resistance to almost everything I can think of...... ;)
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Offline Prospect

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2014, 06:54:30 PM »
I wouldn't use it for a proper restoration. It's too much of a departure from the original. For a café racer - maybe.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2014, 10:53:15 PM »
Sorry Retro

"That couldn't be further from the truth"

you can't compare a parts box to brush bumpers being driven off-road in all weather conditions, scraping tall brush, going through mud, gravel, dirt,etc.  Powder coating is fine for bike frames and show car frames and maybe nut & bolt boxes but for rough treatment go with a good primer & paint. 

regards

Wasn't having a go at you Ron, my parts box has about 1000 {sh1tloads} of different nuts and bolts in it and I made it and powder coated it in around 1986, its been half way round the country and beat to #$%* but it had good quality Dulux powder on it and it hasn't failed yet, its a great example of good powder,  powders these days are much better. I would go with either good powder or a good epoxy {epoxy is very strong but fades if not applied with a clear coat} for the best toughest finish hands down. I paint industrial coatings,  thats my trade I've done a lot of powder coating {mostly industrial}, electro static spraying, Acran, when it was used widely {mining equipment} as well as a pile of industrial polyurethanes and epoxies. You would be amazed what is powder coated these days, including most Bull bars and nudge bars used on 4WD's...  ;)

Edit, a couple of things I left out that should be of interest, Powder has a far better abrasion resistance than any paint and remains pliable for many years {resin based}, it is also 100% solids, which is far better than any paint , it is also unaffected by fuel, brake fluid and other chemicals and has a very low to nil toxicity, it is food grade and classed as a "green" product unlike any  paint or epoxy. Epoxies have poor UV ratings and should have a polyurethane clear coat over them to stop powdering and fading.

Hey, Retro, a few questions, if I may:

In 1979 someone painted my tank & side covers with a gold epoxy that is REAL close to the gold candy (but not translucent, obviously). I have been 100% impressed with how well it has held up, just not so much with the color (I asked him for blue...). I finally wore some minor scuffing into it with 30 years of tank bags bumping and sliding on it. But, it was a 1-shot paint over primer, he said: if it a simple paint to apply? It would seem to be a good frame paint, if one could shoot it at home. I sure can't powder coat!

I also have a now well-chipped Imron on my Vetter. It was the buzz in 1974 when I had the original Vetter lacquer in tatters, so I had it Imron'd. After 15 years or so, it started chipping like a windshield stone crack does when something big hit it, and now I have lots of such marks, deep enough I will have to fill them before the next paint. My question is: do you know what can be painted over Imron? No one seems to think anything will stick to it. It can't be removed with solvents, and I am not about to sand my hand-laid fiberglass Vetter I, rare as they are.
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Offline trueblue

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2014, 04:20:11 AM »
The biggest problem I have seen with powder coating is when it gets a stone chip, the rust in the chipped area tends to run under the surface of the powdercoating and after some time it can come off in sheets.  When I did my bike I had the frame painted, my old man is a painter and powder coater so I had the option of either.  He recommended to use a catylised acrylic, there is a product that they use on the undercarriages of trains, it doesn't flake when it gets a stone chip.  It will still chip but you really need to try.  He also put an anti-grafiti clear over it to give it a shine and also any road grime simply wipes off.  It still looks like the day it was applied.

Powder is good, but in my opinion it isn't the ultimate product like some people seem to think it is.  It has its own flaws just like anything else. ;D
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2014, 04:01:13 PM »
Sorry Retro

"That couldn't be further from the truth"

you can't compare a parts box to brush bumpers being driven off-road in all weather conditions, scraping tall brush, going through mud, gravel, dirt,etc.  Powder coating is fine for bike frames and show car frames and maybe nut & bolt boxes but for rough treatment go with a good primer & paint. 

regards

Wasn't having a go at you Ron, my parts box has about 1000 {sh1tloads} of different nuts and bolts in it and I made it and powder coated it in around 1986, its been half way round the country and beat to #$%* but it had good quality Dulux powder on it and it hasn't failed yet, its a great example of good powder,  powders these days are much better. I would go with either good powder or a good epoxy {epoxy is very strong but fades if not applied with a clear coat} for the best toughest finish hands down. I paint industrial coatings,  thats my trade I've done a lot of powder coating {mostly industrial}, electro static spraying, Acran, when it was used widely {mining equipment} as well as a pile of industrial polyurethanes and epoxies. You would be amazed what is powder coated these days, including most Bull bars and nudge bars used on 4WD's...  ;)

Edit, a couple of things I left out that should be of interest, Powder has a far better abrasion resistance than any paint and remains pliable for many years {resin based}, it is also 100% solids, which is far better than any paint , it is also unaffected by fuel, brake fluid and other chemicals and has a very low to nil toxicity, it is food grade and classed as a "green" product unlike any  paint or epoxy. Epoxies have poor UV ratings and should have a polyurethane clear coat over them to stop powdering and fading.

Hey, Retro, a few questions, if I may:

In 1979 someone painted my tank & side covers with a gold epoxy that is REAL close to the gold candy (but not translucent, obviously). I have been 100% impressed with how well it has held up, just not so much with the color (I asked him for blue...). I finally wore some minor scuffing into it with 30 years of tank bags bumping and sliding on it. But, it was a 1-shot paint over primer, he said: if it a simple paint to apply? It would seem to be a good frame paint, if one could shoot it at home. I sure can't powder coat!

I also have a now well-chipped Imron on my Vetter. It was the buzz in 1974 when I had the original Vetter lacquer in tatters, so I had it Imron'd. After 15 years or so, it started chipping like a windshield stone crack does when something big hit it, and now I have lots of such marks, deep enough I will have to fill them before the next paint. My question is: do you know what can be painted over Imron? No one seems to think anything will stick to it. It can't be removed with solvents, and I am not about to sand my hand-laid fiberglass Vetter I, rare as they are.

Hi Mark, A 1 shot epoxy..? The only single pac epoxies i have seen or used are primers, every other top coat product was a 2 pac, thats how epoxies work, they need an activator {part B}to set them off. Wondering how you asked for blue and got gold... ;D :o
Imron is a polyurethane paint and very toxic, you would need to look at a MSDS sheet or speak to Dulux about that, I've used lots of urethanes but only ever as a top coat and in industrial conditions only, like at QLD newspapers, in the press room the painted walls are, or were, stained with a film of ink that can't be seen in the air, but accumulates on the walls and sends them black, an acrylic paint was applied to the walls after cleaning them and then a polyurethane coating is painted over the top of the acrylic to seal it and provide a surface thats easily cleaned, that was a product called PolyU400, its a marine grade clear with great anti graffiti properties, we also use that on council's roadside portable offices that are prone to being graffitied, the graffiti just wipes off.. ;D I do know that there are paints like acrylic auto paints that are recommended not to be painted over PolyU, not sure about 2 pacs myself as I've never had to paint over PolyU, in saying that, polyU paints have great resistance to anything sticking on them, including paint, thats why we use them as an anti graffiti coating. Sorry i couldn't be of more help.. If I ever have any questions about product I usually just ring the paint rep and ask, get it straight from the horses mouth... ;) 
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Offline budman

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Frame: powdercoat, or not.
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2014, 07:38:16 PM »
I'm painting my frame and a bunch of the suspension parts.  I just shot primer on the first parts tonight.  I used an epoxy primer and then a filler/surfacer.  I'm using acrylic urethane on everything.  Not as durable as PC, but I like doing stuff myself and I've not always been impressed with powder coating jobs I've seen.  It's all going to be glossy black.  If something gets nicked or scratched is should be pretty easy to a spot repair or brush touch.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 09:21:33 PM by budman »
Bud

1973 CB750K3 Chopper
2021 Indian Scout