Topic: MessnerMoto - CB750 f2 - Some Parts are now available from build!!

[Trad]

MessnerMoto, can I ask what your profession is? You are doing some amazing stuff in here. 

[MessnerMoto]

MessnerMoto, can I ask what your profession is? You are doing some amazing stuff in here. 

Thanks! First of all my name is Mirko;) I am an IT guy. To be precise  currently working as a mobile developer. But this is my dream

[MessnerMoto]

I made progress on several fronts...

I made spacers for back wheel. Wheel I am using is made for 25mm axle... I had to make spacers for 20mm axle...
Also I changed wheel bearings from 6205 to 6304(25mm ID to 20mm ID).





Wheel is perfectly centered in swingarm. Tolerance +/- 0.1mm

Because I wanted to save time I bought brake that goes with this wheel(KTM adv 1190 R)



But I didn't think about how it will look. That brake holder will never go with my bike. It doesn't look good.

So the solution was to design and make holder...















This one is better looking

... Also I had my forks disassembled, straightened, assembled(note to everybody: there is a big chance that you are buying forks from crashed bike. Always check if forks are bent, and usually they are .

Fender holders are cut. There is not a trace of them anymore

[RAFster122s]

What are you going to do about the chain sprocket offset from the motor to the rear wheel?

[MessnerMoto]

What are you going to do about the chain sprocket offset from the motor to the rear wheel?

Look at Page 3. I made custom sprockets

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Mirko,

That brake carrier is elegant. I like how you milled off the front fender mounts, too.

[MessnerMoto]

Mirko,

That brake carrier is elegant. I like how you milled off the front fender mounts, too.

Thanks Don

Small update....


I received my disks today. They are Brembo ORO series front for GSXR. For rear also Brembo for KTM. They match perfectly... Like the rounded look



Also I did make my set of stainless bolt for from disks. To eliminate clearance issues with my 3d fender I had to make bolts with thiner head. Originally it is bolt head is 3mm my bolt have 2mm thick head. Bolts have tighter tolerances then originals. Also they look better in stainless(304)







I made 100 bolts just in case

[754]

Did you cut the hex in the bolthead with a wobble broach?

[MessnerMoto]

I think yes. It was done by the shop. If you are talking about this

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Also I did make my set of stainless bolt for from disks. To eliminate clearance issues with my 3d fender I had to make bolts with thiner head. Originally it is bolt head is 3mm my bolt have 2mm thick head. Bolts have tighter tolerances then originals. Also they look better in stainless(304)

I made 100 bolts just in case

I like those, too!

[MessnerMoto]

Also I did make my set of stainless bolt for from disks. To eliminate clearance issues with my 3d fender I had to make bolts with thiner head. Originally it is bolt head is 3mm my bolt have 2mm thick head. Bolts have tighter tolerances then originals. Also they look better in stainless(304)

I made 100 bolts just in case

I like those, too!

Did I say you will not get them? ...

[MessnerMoto]

I am currently in Berlin. Buy chance I stumbled on custom bikes displayed at Gestalten bookstore. Bikes from Wrenchmonkeys, Autofabrica... are on display... It is a promotion of this book http://shop.gestalten.com/the-ride.html
You can't imagine how happy I was to see some bikes from my favorite builders

[MessnerMoto]

There is a lot things going on with the build. I just don't have time to upload... Overvalued with work this days.
I will just give you small update because I think this is interesting.

This is how I enlarged swingarm pivot holes on the frame.... After a discussion with Hondaman in PM one month ago I realized how critical are tolerances around pivot bolt for good and safe handling. Originally pivot bolt is 13.8mm and holes are 14.15mm. I think Honda made this loose fit because they could not produce two pivot holes to be exactly on same axis... The problem is that pivot bolt will move under heavy load. Adding to a lateral movement of back wheel. And I am using 16mm pivot from later DOHCs(15.95mm exactly)

My goal was to reduce that gap from 0.35mm to 0.1mm. Guys from CNC shop made all this happen.

Holes are of the axis so we had to use one hole as a guide. We inserted one tube of 14mm in first hole as a guide. Grabbed that tube with
special CNC tool for 14mm diameters. Then clock was used to fine adjust parallelism of the hole(fine taping the frame here and there). Then we fully tightened the frame for working table. Similar process was done for second hole but with longer tube spanning from first hole to almost entering second hole. Missing pictures for that second part.

So at the end holes are 16.03-16.07mm(Larger at the entrance of boring)... And pivot bolt is going in first in to a first hole easly with slight taping to for second hole....
 
This can be done better using frame neck as a parallel guide but it is beyond needed. Also it is not a bad thing to do it with bolted engine.

[MessnerMoto]

I am finishing with CNC parts. Several more and I am finished. Handlebars are 22mm with 8 degree angle. Designed by me... made by my good friends from CNC shop. There will be no clamp bolts
You will see in several days how the handlebars are clamped to forks  

[FunJimmy]

Internal wedge inside the bar.
Not new.

[MessnerMoto]

Yep something like that

[brandEn]

WOW! Those are cool.

[754]

I would have just bored them first then mounted on a plug with a washer and bolt.
Way less machining and material.. .they look good.

[MessnerMoto]

I would have just bored them first then mounted on a plug with a washer and bolt.
Way less machining and material.. .they look good.

We tried that but part was moving during machining. This is a second try . Probably there is even better way to do it...

[RAFster122s]

Not sure which portion was moving and difficult to machine.  I would have milled it and not cut the round portion leaving the outside edge half cut with maybe 30-45 degrees or the cut not cut for the last 1/3 of the radiused end. Program the cnc to cut the sides of that section so you have parallel sides respective to the end for the boring.  Then the part free with edges squared to be able to clamp so your boring can be aligned to the end. You will of course have to check with a laser or plumb line  that your drill or milling bit is going to bore into the part straight. If it is off by much you may be able to see that with the bar ends attached.

Ideally you perform all the machining without removing the part of all the angles align. (Within the bounds of the programming...)
It is interesting,  I guess you have a strong desire to have something no one else has or you enjoy seeing designs come to life.

What is your testing method going to be for critical parts since you are reinventing/reengineering many parts on the bike?


David

[MessnerMoto]

Not sure which portion was moving and difficult to machine.  I would have milled it and not cut the round portion leaving the outside edge half cut with maybe 30-45 degrees or the cut not cut for the last 1/3 of the radiused end. Program the cnc to cut the sides of that section so you have parallel sides respective to the end for the boring.  Then the part free with edges squared to be able to clamp so your boring can be aligned to the end. You will of course have to check with a laser or plumb line  that your drill or milling bit is going to bore into the part straight. If it is off by much you may be able to see that with the bar ends attached.

Ideally you perform all the machining without removing the part of all the angles align. (Within the bounds of the programming...)
It is interesting,  I guess you have a strong desire to have something no one else has or you enjoy seeing designs come to life.

What is your testing method going to be for critical parts since you are reinventing/reengineering many parts on the bike?


David

Thats not a bad idea... but next time we will not bore a hole for forks. Where fork is supposed to be we will drill two smaller holes of lets say 10mm.... and two same holes on a tool. Tool is a cylinder of 50mm diameter so it will not interfere with part when we turn part for other side machining.

I like to design and if designed something nicer then I am really happy:). Seeing something you imagined in real life is rally rewording. And thats usually a point of custom motorcycle... Trying to be different

I always leave same  amount  or more material like in OEM parts. I always have some OEM parts next to meet for measurements. And if I really want to remove material as much as I can I use some FEA analysis... Like for top triple. And don't forget I am using 6082 T6 all the time. Higher yield strength then cast Al.





 

[754]

I think you meant forged aluminum.
 I suggest,
 The handle bar stub, leave it 1.5mm oversize,  then mount with the fork part INSIDE a large enough 3 jaw chuck.. Probably will end up not sticking out.
 Then machine your inside features, and face end with an endmill..dont hit the chuck.
 Now mount it on what you will, use for handle bars.. Back into lathe with fork part and stub clear of the jaws then turn to same O.D. As handlebar.... Have a radius on edge of tool facing fork part.. Get as close as you can then blend the rest..  It will, look slick...

[MessnerMoto]

I think you meant forged aluminum.
 I suggest,
 The handle bar stub, leave it 1.5mm oversize,  then mount with the fork part INSIDE a large enough 3 jaw chuck.. Probably will end up not sticking out.
 Then machine your inside features, and face end with an endmill..dont hit the chuck.
 Now mount it on what you will, use for handle bars.. Back into lathe with fork part and stub clear of the jaws then turn to same O.D. As handlebar.... Have a radius on edge of tool facing fork part.. Get as close as you can then blend the rest..  It will, look slick...

I was talking about clamps being cast alloy...

Stub area on part is close to 22mm... exactly 22.00-22.10. Ant is close to being perfect circle. When we finish drilling stub area on part for plug and threads we will screw in the rest of stub tubing. With the complete stub on we will do the polishing. So it will be almost seamless transition from part to rest of the stub.

The main problem in machining this part aries from 8 degree angle of stub. Maybe it was not clear from pictures I posted...





This 8 degree is because I want want handle bars to go low. I like a little bit more conformable riding position without that losing that clip on look

[754]

I know its 8 degrees , that. Wont matter when you machine it on the lathe, gripping with a 3 jaw. Faster to finish rounding it in a lathe than milling or hand finishing.

 I think most stock triple trees are forged, not cast.....look at the part line...  Way thicker than casting.
If they're cast  they would be much weaker..

[MessnerMoto]

I know its 8 degrees , that. Wont matter when you machine it on the lathe, gripping with a 3 jaw. Faster to finish rounding it in a lathe than milling or hand finishing.

 I think most stock triple trees are forged, not cast.....look at the part line...  Way thicker than casting.
If they're cast  they would be much weaker..

So you are talking about making big hole for forks at the lathe? Or about other roundness around fork hole?

For people who don't know what we are talking about here is a picture explaning how do make difference between cast and forged part



Looking at the part lines on GSXR k6 k7 clamps I can say they are cast. 



on bottom clamp part line is not even trimmed. And part lines are not even in one plane