Topic: RE: Video Editing on a Budget?

[chewbacca5000]

I have been getting more and more interested in video editing, and with the black Friday specials I noticed that SSDs (solid state hard drives) are marked down up to 50% off which got me to thinking maybe updating my 8 year old Phenom II 955 with 8 gb and a 80 gb intel ssd would be a good idea.

For those of you who don't know a SSD will make your tired old PC better than new and boot up in around 30 seconds or less and launch programs instantly.

Here is what I learned so far.
1. SSD RAIDs top on at 4 disk for consumer grade
2. Standard video editing uses the cpu for editing
3. GPU is mostly for running after effects
4.  32 GB is a good starting point for ram.
5. Multiple core CPUs are best.  Premiere can use all the cores.
6. Having a SSD array is key. 
7.  A better worklow may might be possible by having 2 or more computers 1 for editing and others for rendering.  Export/Rendering is time consuming.

I would be interested to hear from members who do this for a hobby or living.  Thanks again for the recommendations on the phone.

Sources:
Intel 4k video editing guide
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/workstation-adobe-4k-guide.pdf

Kingston Raid SSD RAID Arrays
http://www.kingston.com/us/community/articledetail/articleid/8?Article-Title=Accelerating-System-Performance-with-SSD-RAID-Arrays

General discussion about video editing.
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-much-does-ram-matter-with-video-editing.1562388/

Edit: Read this guide if you are planning on building a video editing system.
http://ppbm7.com/index.php/new-system-build

For a novice $1,500 is a good starting point for a budget system i7-4790k, 32 gb ram, SSD raid 0, and a GTX 980.

If you want to make money at it you need a 6 core i7-5930k system which adds an extra $1,000 to the cost.  What makes the i7-5930 a good choice is the 15mb of cache vs 8 on the 4790k, and the it has 40 PCIe lances vs 28 lanes on the 4790k.

Think of PCIe lanes like lanes on the highway, and 16 of those lanes are taken up by the GTX980 which only leaves 12 lanes on the 4790k while the 5930 has 24 free lanes.  Those lanes can be used for a super fast m.2 hard drive that has a 2 GBs transfer.  It is a huge difference.

I am going with an i7-4790k as that is the max I am willing to spend at this time.  If I really like the video editing stuff I will bump it up to an 8 core setup.

[Bailgang]

You are correct, Video Editing is all about the cores.  Before you go any further you need to assess  your budget.  I recently build 2 editing machines for our production team at work.  We used AMD FX-8350s and 32 Gigs of RAM.  32 Gigs of ram is the sweet spot right now.  We also threw in a GTX980 that actually help actively with encoding with the CPU.  They aren't just for after effects anymore! 

You literally have an infinite amount of options at this point.  Your little Phenom 955 was a great processor and still is, it's just lacking cores lol. 

You could also go server grade components. AMD 12 and 16 core server chips are CHEAP right now on the second hand market and full Intel servers are CHEAP on the second hand market as well. 

What it all boils down too without giving you every possibility out there is figure out your budget.  Then choose the components that will give you the most Cores or Threads.  32 Gigs of RAM is a must.  Be careful with SSD Raid arrays, you lose TRIM support unless you have a high end PIC express raid card.  Then choose a graphics card last. Be sure to get a case with good airflow. When encoding, the CPU is going to be %100 and heating your house. 

[Bailgang]

Chewy, before you or anyone else reading my above post thinks I actually know a thing or 2 about computers let me explain. The above post was written by my oldest son who's here for Thanksgiving, he's a freak of nature so to speak because he's a computer geek that also knows how to turn a wrench on a bike or car in fact he has a 73 750 and also a member of this site however he hasn't logged in on his own account in so long he forgot his password so used my acct to reply to your question.

[chewbacca5000]

Chewy, before you or anyone else reading my above post thinks I actually know a thing or 2 about computers let me explain. The above post was written by my oldest son who's here for Thanksgiving, he's a freak of nature so to speak because he's a computer geek that also knows how to turn a wrench on a bike or car in fact he has a 73 750 and also a member of this site however he hasn't logged in on his own account in so long he forgot his password so used my acct to reply to your question.

Tell your son thanks!  What a great Thanksgiving day present.  Does he have any throughput numbers on those systems for basic rendering and after effects?  ie. how long does it take to render 1GB in premier and how long would it take to do 1GB in after effects. 

Not sure but am also getting the impression that many who do video editing have 2 machines 1 basic machine for editing and 1 for rendering?

[Bailgang]

I am always glad to help! 

I don't have any solid numbers at the moment but I can get you some This Friday or Monday when the media team comes back.  A lot of times yes, many editors have 2 machines so when one is rendering or encoding they aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs lol.  You could keep your 955 machine and throw an NVIDIA card in it for after effects and have a new machine for encoding and such. 

[chewbacca5000]

Is PassMark - CPU Mark High End CPUs - Updated 26th of November 2015 relevant for video editing / rendering?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4790K+%40+4.00GHz&id=2275


It seem like itel is in the top half of the list and AMD is always in the bottom half.  Also, are some CPUs better for video editing?  If I can keep the budget under $1k I would be happy.  Everyone is raving about the i7 4790K.  I would not mind trying an intel after going with AMD for my last build.  Back then intel i7 920 whipped the phenom II.

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80646I74790K-i7-4790K-Processor-Cache/dp/B00KPRWAX8/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1448562923&sr=1-1&keywords=i7+4790k

[Bailgang]

Intel has an incredibly high IPC (instructions per cycle) compared to AMD. High IPC is always better, no question.  In the case of editing more Cores or Threads is better.  Both AMD and Intel have the same instruction sets so the difference in encoding comes down to clock rate and IPC.  If you have 1k as a budget definitely go with Intel.  The 4790K  is a great processor giving you 8 threads to work with. 

The passmark benchmark is an overall performance benchmark of a cpu and a good standard to go off of.  oddly enough I cannot find benchmark  results purely about encoding.  If you can swing it, you should look into a 5820K.  that will give you 12 threads and larger cache, however those boards can be pricey and you'll need DDR4 which is coming down in price but not as cheap as DDR3. 

If you were on a smaller budget AMD would have been the better choice but your budget gives you enough room to go really big with intel. 

[chewbacca5000]

Thanks Cal.

I wish I could just get mac pro and be done with it, but something says that will not solve all my problems, and at $3,000 I am not convinced it is a good value.

I begging to understand editing and rendering are two different things, and that a powerful workstation is key for editing while cheaper grade hardware might make sense for rendering.  Also all that color correction, shading, and effects need a big powerful card.

I currently have 3 computers.  1 Phenom 955 with 8 gb and a 80 gb ssd, and 2 intel core 2 duo with 4 gb and 1 has a 128 gb ssd.

Sadly the 2 core 2 machines run ddr 2 and are not upgradable, but the cases, power supplys and fans are all high quality.


Also the Phenom 955 is socket am3 gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P maxes out at 16 gb so not sure what can be done here.

[CB750R]

I've dipped my toe into the world of video and that's about it. I'm more of a still photog still.

I've build an i7 machine with 16gb of ram dual ssds and dual 7200rpm storage discs and encoded a few projects in handbrake.

It's usable for me, but I can see why someone would want two machines so one can encode while you can stay busy editing on another!

[chewbacca5000]

I've dipped my toe into the world of video and that's about it. I'm more of a still photog still.

I've build an i7 machine with 16gb of ram dual ssds and dual 7200rpm storage discs and encoded a few projects in handbrake.

It's usable for me, but I can see why someone would want two machines so one can encode while you can stay busy editing on another!

How long ago did you build that setup?  Getting a couple ssds would speed things up alot.

[chewbacca5000]

Ok here is what I am looking at.

Intel Core BX80646I74790K i7-4790K Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.40 GHz)

Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR3 1600 (PC3-12800) 240-pin UDIMM BLS4KIT8G3D1609DS1S00 / BLS4CP8G3D1609DS1S00

Gigabyte GA-Z97X-GAMING 5 LGA 1150 Z97 115dB SNR HD Audio with Built-In Rear Audio Amplifier ATX Motherboard

Samsung 850 EVO 250GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-75E250B/AM)  3 in Raid 5

[chewbacca5000]

Intel has an incredibly high IPC (instructions per cycle) compared to AMD. High IPC is always better, no question.  In the case of editing more Cores or Threads is better.  Both AMD and Intel have the same instruction sets so the difference in encoding comes down to clock rate and IPC.  If you have 1k as a budget definitely go with Intel.  The 4790K  is a great processor giving you 8 threads to work with. 

The passmark benchmark is an overall performance benchmark of a cpu and a good standard to go off of.  oddly enough I cannot find benchmark  results purely about encoding.  If you can swing it, you should look into a 5820K.  that will give you 12 threads and larger cache, however those boards can be pricey and you'll need DDR4 which is coming down in price but not as cheap as DDR3. 

If you were on a smaller budget AMD would have been the better choice but your budget gives you enough room to go really big with intel.

I am happy with all  the black Friday discounts I was able to get what I believe will be a decent intel rig for the same price or less than the AMD.

Also, I decided against getting the 5820k setup as it would have cost $1,100 for the mobo, ram, and processor.  I got the 4790k  setup for $647.  Maybe in a year or two down the road I will get something different.

I figure I can use the savings to get a decent graphics card.  Also newegg has the Samsung 250 GB EVO for $71.  I think amazon and newegg mointor each others traffic.  I just keep on flipping back and forth until the price dropped to my buy point.  With 3 of these in a RAID I should be pushing close to 1.5 GBs which is fine considering most consumer grade mobo raids  tops out at 4 SSDs.

I will have to sell some parts to pay for all this and get a 980 GTX or other graphics card. 

[Bailgang]

Intel has an incredibly high IPC (instructions per cycle) compared to AMD. High IPC is always better, no question.  In the case of editing more Cores or Threads is better.  Both AMD and Intel have the same instruction sets so the difference in encoding comes down to clock rate and IPC.  If you have 1k as a budget definitely go with Intel.  The 4790K  is a great processor giving you 8 threads to work with. 

The passmark benchmark is an overall performance benchmark of a cpu and a good standard to go off of.  oddly enough I cannot find benchmark  results purely about encoding.  If you can swing it, you should look into a 5820K.  that will give you 12 threads and larger cache, however those boards can be pricey and you'll need DDR4 which is coming down in price but not as cheap as DDR3. 

If you were on a smaller budget AMD would have been the better choice but your budget gives you enough room to go really big with intel.

I am happy with all  the black Friday discounts I was able to get what I believe will be a decent intel rig for the same price or less than the AMD.

Also, I decided against getting the 5820k setup as it would have cost $1,100 for the mobo, ram, and processor.  I got the 4790k  setup for $647.  Maybe in a year or two down the road I will get something different.

I figure I can use the savings to get a decent graphics card.  Also newegg has the Samsung 250 GB EVO for $71.  I think amazon and newegg mointor each others traffic.  I just keep on flipping back and forth until the price dropped to my buy point.  With 3 of these in a RAID I should be pushing close to 1.5 GBs which is fine considering most consumer grade mobo raids  tops out at 4 SSDs.

I will have to sell some parts to pay for all this and get a 980 GTX or other graphics card.

I'll pass that on to my son, I'm glad he could help. He works in IT for phone and internet provider in his area and is familiar with Windows, MAC and Linux operating systems pretty much because he has to be familiar with them in order to do his job. He doesn't have the budget to afford the absolute fastest cpu and mobos either but he overclocks what he has as much as he can get away with and still have a stable setup. When he was still living here he had a comp so overclocked and so many cooling fans on it to keep it cool it would dim the lights momentarily when he'd first boot it up.  He also messes with arduino and raspberry pi boards which I think is really cool.

[FunJimmy]

Two computers in one!

This might sound odd and confusing but you may benefit from dual boot drives. I litteraly have two separate C:/ drives powered by a single pole, double throw switch. Select which drive to boot (editing or game drive) to powering on prior to boot and away you go. I did this because I wanted to keep my kids propensity to online video games from polluting my computer. Now that they have their own laptops I use one drive as a pure video editing machine (clean Windows7 install and Adobe CS6 only) and the other as my day to day machine. Would also be a good way to intigrate an SSD drive without filling it up with basic programs.

[CB750R]

I've dipped my toe into the world of video and that's about it. I'm more of a still photog still.

I've build an i7 machine with 16gb of ram dual ssds and dual 7200rpm storage discs and encoded a few projects in handbrake.

It's usable for me, but I can see why someone would want two machines so one can encode while you can stay busy editing on another!

How long ago did you build that setup?  Getting a couple ssds would speed things up alot.

It's two years old. I had the two storage drives in Raid configuration to begin with but it's now one half hackintosh with one boot drive ssd and one spinner for storage. The other SSD and storage windows. my interest in video sorta shifted and I got into CAD/CAM and CNC. still a great power house of a computer I am happy to say has been flexible enough for anything I've thrown at it.  I think a new video card may be in the future...

[chewbacca5000]

I've dipped my toe into the world of video and that's about it. I'm more of a still photog still.

I've build an i7 machine with 16gb of ram dual ssds and dual 7200rpm storage discs and encoded a few projects in handbrake.

It's usable for me, but I can see why someone would want two machines so one can encode while you can stay busy editing on another!

How long ago did you build that setup?  Getting a couple ssds would speed things up alot.

It's two years old. I had the two storage drives in Raid configuration to begin with but it's now one half hackintosh with one boot drive ssd and one spinner for storage. The other SSD and storage windows. my interest in video sorta shifted and I got into CAD/CAM and CNC. still a great power house of a computer I am happy to say has been flexible enough for anything I've thrown at it.  I think a new video card may be in the future...

What video card are you using?

What I am learning is that software hardware combination is critical to getting good results.  For gaming a 4 core with a GTX 980 is the way to go since most games can't utilize more than 4 cores.

For FinalCut Pro this poster says to use AMD and Final Cut is optimized for AMD
http://www.tonymacx86.com/buying-advice/179233-final-cut-pro-x-video-editing-hardware-software-z97x-motherboard-i7-4790k.html

Now première pro is optimized to use CUDA technology found in Nvida

Great info on real time 4k video editing http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe-premiere-pro-cc.html#
The Multi-GPU (2x Quadro M6000) is absolutely amazing and it should be at $4,000 bucks!

All this research is enough to give someone a splitting headache no wonder people just buy a Mac Pro and be done with it.

[CB750R]

I was using premiere and have a GTX650ti. I used a patch so Adobe would recognize the card and utilize the cuda cores for this card.

Like I said I dipped my toes in the water I have a cannon 7d and was able to utilize the stability functions and some very basic editing and then encoding with Handbrake.  I'm by no means an expert as I have a habit of diving into the deep end of a subject like video or building a hackintosh or building a CNC machine and learn a lot fast but sometimes retention is not my best skill 

[CB750R]

I do somewhat agree with your sentiment on the Mac Pro. I had serious WANTITIS for a Mac Pro so my hackintosh met that need. However learning to build and keep stable the hack is a pain in the ass. To be honest the dual boot config is a pain as when windows half needs to reboot for updates you have to manually ensure it boots to windows to make sure the updates proceed. Sorry getting off topic slightly.

My advice go as big and as dedicated a rig as you can.  I'm planning to divorce my Mac/PC computer into 2 separate machines.  My experience with Mac has been fun but the CAD/cam has sucked me back to Windows, where as my photog Side really liked trying out the Mac OS.

[chewbacca5000]

I do somewhat agree with your sentiment on the Mac Pro. I had serious WANTITIS for a Mac Pro so my hackintosh met that need. However learning to build and keep stable the hack is a pain in the ass. To be honest the dual boot config is a pain as when windows half needs to reboot for updates you have to manually ensure it boots to windows to make sure the updates proceed. Sorry getting off topic slightly.

My advice go as big and as dedicated a rig as you can.  I'm planning to divorce my Mac/PC computer into 2 separate machines.  My experience with Mac has been fun but the CAD/cam has sucked me back to Windows, where as my photog Side really liked trying out the Mac OS.

+1 retention is not my best skill either.  That is why I am "currently" enthusiastic about E-Commerce and internet marketing as there is always something new to learn and alot of what I learn is fairly marketable.  By watching top tier performers I am sold on the power of video, and it is almost expected that everything has a professional glossy feel to it.

Check this out amazing Hollywood quality in Gone Girl which was shot in 6k and and edited using 2 Multi-GPU (2x Quadro M6000)

http://images.nvidia.com/content/adobe/videos/Gone_Girl_Case_Study_R8_1080-original.mp4

This is probably at $12,000 computer.

I hear what you are saying on the windows/ mac thing everything I read is that it is alot more work than it is worth.  The windows/premier has too much value imo.  I would love a MAC Pro if video editing was my day job and a company paid for it.

Now to decide on what video card?

[FunJimmy]

I do somewhat agree with your sentiment on the Mac Pro. I had serious WANTITIS for a Mac Pro so my hackintosh met that need. However learning to build and keep stable the hack is a pain in the ass. To be honest the dual boot config is a pain as when windows half needs to reboot for updates you have to manually ensure it boots to windows to make sure the updates proceed. Sorry getting off topic slightly.

My advice go as big and as dedicated a rig as you can.  I'm planning to divorce my Mac/PC computer into 2 separate machines.  My experience with Mac has been fun but the CAD/cam has sucked me back to Windows, where as my photog Side really liked trying out the Mac OS.

+1 retention is not my best skill either.  That is why I am "currently" enthusiastic about E-Commerce and internet marketing as there is always something new to learn and alot of what I learn is fairly marketable.  By watching top tier performers I am sold on the power of video, and it is almost expected that everything has a professional glossy feel to it.

Check this out amazing Hollywood quality in Gone Girl which was shot in 6k and and edited using 2 Multi-GPU (2x Quadro M6000)

http://images.nvidia.com/content/adobe/videos/Gone_Girl_Case_Study_R8_1080-original.mp4

This is probably at $12,000 computer.

I hear what you are saying on the windows/ mac thing everything I read is that it is alot more work than it is worth.  The windows/premier has too much value imo.  I would love a MAC Pro if video editing was my day job and a company paid for it.

Now to decide on what video card?

Pick up a good used Nvidia Quadro 6000 with 6gb ram on eBay for under $400.

[Bailgang]

My current vid card, cpu and moboard are hand me downs from my son, too slow for him but fast for what I use it for. I was using 2 IDE HD's for a bit but my son picked me up an SSD drive to replace the IDE's and holy smokes that sped it up.

[chewbacca5000]

GTX 970 after effects and premiere pro

[chewbacca5000]

GTX vs Quadro

[chewbacca5000]

GTX980 vs K4000 color correction in premier

[Zaipai]

I am always glad to help! 

I don't have any solid numbers at the moment but I can get you some This Friday or Monday when the media team comes back.  A lot of times yes, many editors have 2 machines so when one is rendering or encoding they aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs lol.  You could keep your 955 machine and throw an NVIDIA card in it for after effects and have a new machine for encoding and such.

So I also am a computer geek and turn wrenches.