Author Topic: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.  (Read 15082 times)

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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2017, 06:34:49 PM »
the sportster motor seemed to work ok in a buell , must be as you say the weight

Different engine. Even the cases were different. The Buell had better heads a different crank and made about 100hp compared to the sportsters 60~.


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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2017, 03:35:34 PM »
2018 Harley-Davidson Street Glide Special with 107 Milwaukee-Eight made 78.43 HP and 104.44 TQ

http://www.baggersmag.com/2018-harley-davidson-street-glide-dyno-video?src=SOC&dom=fb
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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2017, 03:36:14 PM »
I'm sure it will spin the back wheel with that torque.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
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2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2017, 05:11:53 PM »
I'm curious - what is it about harley's engine design that they routinely produce lower hp to displacement ratios?

A 103 cu. in. motor should produce about 140 hp by modern standards right?

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2017, 05:36:07 PM »
I'm curious - what is it about harley's engine design that they routinely produce lower hp to displacement ratios?

A 103 cu. in. motor should produce about 140 hp by modern standards right?

103 cubic inches equals 1687.87cc SO YES, it should have no problem making double the HP.  These motors are always made to produce low end torque over hp.

A Honda RC51 with a 999cc v-twin makes a claimed 133 hp at the crank and 71.4 ft/lbs by comparison. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2017, 05:44:42 PM »
I'm curious - what is it about harley's engine design that they routinely produce lower hp to displacement ratios?

A 103 cu. in. motor should produce about 140 hp by modern standards right?

103 cubic inches equals 1687.87cc SO YES, it should have no problem making double the HP.  These motors are always made to produce low end torque over hp.

A Honda RC51 with a 999cc v-twin makes a claimed 133 hp at the crank and 71.4 ft/lbs by comparison.

Torque wins races 🏁

But where is the engine efficiency being lost?

Offline USMC5811

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2017, 07:27:12 PM »
I'm curious - what is it about harley's engine design that they routinely produce lower hp to displacement ratios?

A 103 cu. in. motor should produce about 140 hp by modern standards right?

103 cubic inches equals 1687.87cc SO YES, it should have no problem making double the HP.  These motors are always made to produce low end torque over hp.

A Honda RC51 with a 999cc v-twin makes a claimed 133 hp at the crank and 71.4 ft/lbs by comparison.

Torque wins races

But where is the engine efficiency being lost?
Indians must be crazy torque fiends then


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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2017, 07:40:39 PM »
I'm curious - what is it about harley's engine design that they routinely produce lower hp to displacement ratios?

A 103 cu. in. motor should produce about 140 hp by modern standards right?

103 cubic inches equals 1687.87cc SO YES, it should have no problem making double the HP.  These motors are always made to produce low end torque over hp.

A Honda RC51 with a 999cc v-twin makes a claimed 133 hp at the crank and 71.4 ft/lbs by comparison.

Torque wins races 🏁

But where is the engine efficiency being lost?
Good question. 

The RC was definitely built for speed and sure as heck felt like it had more torque that 71 foot/pounds.  Heck my little FZ-09 produces 115 hp and 67 ft/lbs.  And it weighs 414 lbs wet compared to about 490 lbs wet as the RC.  No wonder its such a fast little bugger.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2017, 06:03:27 AM »
The efficiency is lost in the same way that the sound is had. The whole mechanical timing of the engine is just about as bad as it gets for power. For a while I thought maybe the two valves per head were the limiting factor but those numbers from Baggers Magazine with the 4 valve per cylinder Milwaukee engine still can't grasp 100hp.

I think half the reason the sporty and Buell engines make more power is their size. I think giant pistons are only good for torque.

The xb9 and xb12 both had the same bore. The cranks were different. Memory is slipping on that dark chapter of my life, but something made compression ratios different and so the preferred power maker was to build an xb9/xb12 hybrid.


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Offline Geeto67

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2017, 08:34:52 AM »
I feel like HD engines make the power they make by choice, not by limitations of design. There are plenty of guys who can get 100hp or more out of these engines but the reliability starts to suffer. Heck my father's Evo fat boy gets over 100hp on a stock bottom end but it does so by using a roots blower to huff 8psi boost into it. It's literally a cam and a blower and that 1340cc engine is churning somewhere in the 120hp range (it's been a decade since I have looked at the dyno sheet).

The HD engines are aircooled. It's part of the "mystique" but that means they run looser tolerances. most don't run oil coolers either. Ask any aircooled VW guy - when HP goes up, heat goes up, reliability goes down.

Sure ducati was able to pull 100hp out of an aircooled 1000cc engine but it ran a pretty big oil cooler, was OHC, high compression, dual spark, Fuel Injected, and had a cam profile that lugged below 3000rpm. Plenty of drag racers pulled 100hp out of 1000cc ironheads on stock bottom ends by doing the same thing: converting to dual plug, running higher compression, running large oil coolers, head porting, and big carbs. Sputhe built a street legal sportster called the "aluminum steamroller" that was alloy barrels, alloy heads, 1290ccs, and made over 130hp easy (I believe at the rear wheel not at the crank). Still had that same 45 degree angle. So it's possible for HD engines to make comparable power for their size, so why don't they?

rider expectation.

Your average HD sofaglide buyer doesn't want a top end charge. They don't want to feel like they are lugging it below 3000 rpm. They don't want a fast rev and the ability for the engine to quickly change direction. They don't want loading up spark plugs. They want to pull away from a light at 1200rpm and feel like a tractor or a bulldozer is pushing them from behind. They want to punch it WFO at 1500rpms (as soon as they pick their feet up) and don't want it to stumble or cough but effortlessly pull them forward with authority. By the time they make 5K rpm their nuts ran out on them well before the engine breathing did and they back off anyway. They want to lope along in 6th gear on the highway at 2500 rpm and be able to punch it and pass someone.

To that end HD head, flywheel, cam profile, and heck even materials used support a high torque, low HP engine. They are the pickup truck engines of the motorcycle world - durable and understressed.

If you doubt this look at the v-rod. 116hp and 84 ft lbs out of 1131ccs and passes emissions. It's water cooled, reliable, 60 degree twin, and HD people hate it because those things are not "traditional HD". By the way, HD sold a 165hp version of the v-rod called the destroyer - it was a stunningly reliable bracket racer out of the box. Even the later Rods make something closer to 130hp out of 1247ccs. 

A the end of the day HD has no incentive to make a high "HP" engine. Their buyers don't want the compromises that comes with a high hp racing v-twin - they want pickup trucks that pull stumps and whip donuts. why mess with what works?
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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2017, 09:38:48 AM »
I feel like HD engines make the power they make by choice, not by limitations of design. There are plenty of guys who can get 100hp or more out of these engines but the reliability starts to suffer. Heck my father's Evo fat boy gets over 100hp on a stock bottom end but it does so by using a roots blower to huff 8psi boost into it. It's literally a cam and a blower and that 1340cc engine is churning somewhere in the 120hp range (it's been a decade since I have looked at the dyno sheet).

The HD engines are aircooled. It's part of the "mystique" but that means they run looser tolerances. most don't run oil coolers either. Ask any aircooled VW guy - when HP goes up, heat goes up, reliability goes down.

Sure ducati was able to pull 100hp out of an aircooled 1000cc engine but it ran a pretty big oil cooler, was OHC, high compression, dual spark, Fuel Injected, and had a cam profile that lugged below 3000rpm. Plenty of drag racers pulled 100hp out of 1000cc ironheads on stock bottom ends by doing the same thing: converting to dual plug, running higher compression, running large oil coolers, head porting, and big carbs. Sputhe built a street legal sportster called the "aluminum steamroller" that was alloy barrels, alloy heads, 1290ccs, and made over 130hp easy (I believe at the rear wheel not at the crank). Still had that same 45 degree angle. So it's possible for HD engines to make comparable power for their size, so why don't they?

rider expectation.

Your average HD sofaglide buyer doesn't want a top end charge. They don't want to feel like they are lugging it below 3000 rpm. They don't want a fast rev and the ability for the engine to quickly change direction. They don't want loading up spark plugs. They want to pull away from a light at 1200rpm and feel like a tractor or a bulldozer is pushing them from behind. They want to punch it WFO at 1500rpms (as soon as they pick their feet up) and don't want it to stumble or cough but effortlessly pull them forward with authority. By the time they make 5K rpm their nuts ran out on them well before the engine breathing did and they back off anyway. They want to lope along in 6th gear on the highway at 2500 rpm and be able to punch it and pass someone.

To that end HD head, flywheel, cam profile, and heck even materials used support a high torque, low HP engine. They are the pickup truck engines of the motorcycle world - durable and understressed.

If you doubt this look at the v-rod. 116hp and 84 ft lbs out of 1131ccs and passes emissions. It's water cooled, reliable, 60 degree twin, and HD people hate it because those things are not "traditional HD". By the way, HD sold a 165hp version of the v-rod called the destroyer - it was a stunningly reliable bracket racer out of the box. Even the later Rods make something closer to 130hp out of 1247ccs. 

A the end of the day HD has no incentive to make a high "HP" engine. Their buyers don't want the compromises that comes with a high hp racing v-twin - they want pickup trucks that pull stumps and whip donuts. why mess with what works?

Insightful. Thanks.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline simon#42

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2017, 10:12:12 AM »
I'm curious - what is it about harley's engine design that they routinely produce lower hp to displacement ratios?

A 103 cu. in. motor should produce about 140 hp by modern standards right?

103 cubic inches equals 1687.87cc SO YES, it should have no problem making double the HP.  These motors are always made to produce low end torque over hp.

A Honda RC51 with a 999cc v-twin makes a claimed 133 hp at the crank and 71.4 ft/lbs by comparison.

Torque wins races 🏁

But where is the engine efficiency being lost?

power wins races

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2017, 11:31:42 AM »
My friend has a Corvette Z06 that makes 645 hp and 645 ft/lbs.  Both are impressive figures.  The thing not only has top end but ridiculous amounts of pulling power. 

With Geeto's post in mind, I can see why people would want more torque-focused motors, but I wonder why the hp is so low in comparison for a motor with such high displacement.
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2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline J-Rod10

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2017, 01:23:28 PM »
Do they need more power? It'll do 100mph easy. I don't need to do more than 70-85. It's a cruiser, not a trackable bike. Gobs of torque, makes it easy to get all that weight going.

Offline ofreen

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2017, 01:29:10 PM »
Do they need more power?

The touring Harley's are pretty pokey when it comes time to pass, especially on a hill, and especially two up. I hear the new motor is mnch better for this but I haven't had chance to ride one yet.
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Offline 754

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2017, 01:42:32 PM »
Generally fours are over square  meaning the bore measures bigger than the stroke..better for up and worse for torque.
Long stroke or under square like the HD, make  more torque m but less hp... characteristically. .

Over square equals a revvy engine, Over square revs lower.
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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2017, 02:15:53 PM »
I am surprised triples are not more popular.  Seemingly more torque-emphasized, narrower and lighter than a in-line 4.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2017, 02:23:28 PM »
I am surprised triples are not more popular.  Seemingly more torque-emphasized, narrower and lighter than a in-line 4.

Except for trash can.  That xs750/3 is neither light nor narrow.  Even after taking the vetter accessories off  :o

Thanks for the explanations on harley's design fellas.

Offline eigenvector

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2017, 04:14:39 PM »
Triples are popular - Triumph has done stellar business with their triple.  That 1050 Tiger I had was an absolute power monster, even tipping the scales like I did back when I owned one I could routinely smoke people off the line and while moving.

They have fallen out of favor though - not sure why other than historical reasons I'm sure.

I appreciate the explanation Geeto.  To me Harley has always been a safe company - one engine design, push-rods and it does work for them.  So why change it?  Really no reason - it does seem to support them well.  They don't race in MotoGP, only flat track - so they don't need to develop engines for GP.  I'm guessing Marquez wouldn't want to try racing a V-twin around San Marino against Ducati or Honda.  I don't know how a V-quad (?) or an inline 4 would come out in flat track either.

But, without other engine layouts to draw upon it does limit their market.
You will not be buying a Harley adventure tourer anytime, nor would you ever see a Harley sport bike.  For a company that only makes motorcycles - they are strangely limited.

I appreciate the link to the 750 guys, although I still would have like to see a smaller engine - that push-rod layout kind of limits their options though.  That said, their price on the 750 was pretty decent, maybe even decent enough to consider.
Rob
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1979 CB750K Limited Edition
1977 CB550K
1984 CB700SC Nighthawk
1983 VF750S Sabre

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2017, 04:36:26 PM »
That new(er) naked Yamaha is a triple and I see a lot of them on the road.

To add to what frank wrote, the other benefit of a 4 cylinder is the amount of power pulses. Call me crazy but a twin and a 4 cylinder making the same power still feel very different and I don't mean via vibrations, but seat of the pants power.


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2017, 05:04:34 PM »
The new xs850 from yamaha is a really attractive looking machine.
It's an interesting amalgamation of design preferences though.  Lots of popular artistic touches for a production bike.  And it actually feels really good to sit and hold onto.

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2017, 05:15:41 PM »
That new(er) naked Yamaha is a triple and I see a lot of them on the road.

To add to what frank wrote, the other benefit of a 4 cylinder is the amount of power pulses. Call me crazy but a twin and a 4 cylinder making the same power still feel very different and I don't mean via vibrations, but seat of the pants power.


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I have the new cross-plane Yamaha triple (FZ-09). It is nothing short of amazing.  The same motor powers the XSR900 (retro) and FJ900 (touring).  It is much narrower than an inline-4 and really pulls hard for such a lightweight motor/bike.

FYI - Triumph's new 765cc triple is going to be the control engine for Moto2 in another year and a half. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2017, 05:35:34 PM »
The new xs850 from yamaha is a really attractive looking machine.
It's an interesting amalgamation of design preferences though.  Lots of popular artistic touches for a production bike.  And it actually feels really good to sit and hold onto.

I hear it's a beast.


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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2017, 05:45:24 PM »
The new xs850 from yamaha is a really attractive looking machine.
It's an interesting amalgamation of design preferences though.  Lots of popular artistic touches for a production bike.  And it actually feels really good to sit and hold onto.

I hear it's a beast.


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The motor is called a 900 but it's an 850cc inline triple.

The XSR is a good looking and great performing bike.  Part of me wishes I had one instead of my Thruxton R, but I already had the FZ-09.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 05:48:32 PM by SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan »
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2017, 06:00:02 PM »
I like the lesser dressage versions.