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Author Topic: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)  (Read 3610 times)

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Offline StanLipert

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2018, 03:39:25 am »
Mirko,
There should be one arc against a supporting slider between each sprocket, if possible. You have a roller changing direction in the front and back runs. How many hours at red line has you engine on it?

Offline underdog

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2018, 04:21:11 am »
  Stan, for those of us who aren't familiar with the tensioner that you're talking about, how about a few pics or a better description?

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2018, 05:50:35 am »
Mirko,
There should be one arc against a supporting slider between each sprocket, if possible. You have a roller changing direction in the front and back runs. How many hours at red line has you engine on it?

Bike is running from December 2017. It has almost 1500km now on clock. Rev limiter is at 10500rpm. I stopped counting how many times it was at the rev limit. Engine is a lot quieter then original and when combined with my primary chain tensioner you almost dont here chains.

If you ever reverse engineered cb750 engine you would now that it is not possible to have only one arc per side with enough curvature to eliminate harmonic oscillations of chain because chain length needs to be increased by two links. With chain length increased by two links and if only two opposing curvatures per side, chain would touch it self in the middle of cam tunnel.

If chain length is not increased by two links you cant introduce any curvature in chain guides and have chain supported in full length. I dont see a problem in middle wheel. It is needed to introduce necessary curvature. Also the only possible place to locate tensioning blade is at the holder pin for wheel in upper case. Google it and you will see similar things in modern engines... Important thing is that when cam chain is under load chain is pushing against curved guides all the way from crank sprocket to cam sprocket. That eliminates any oscillations in my cam tensioner system.

Also important thing... I am using PA 66 + MoS2 material. This will last several racing seasons. If you ever see a chain tensioner using ordinary PA 6(it is white plastic), that tensioner will not last long because PA 6 is not sutable for high temp applications and it will rapidly wear off...

PS Check out also my primary chain tensioner it is more crazy than cam tensioner. And funy thing is that it works perfectly and there is no more sound of primary chains...
Mirko

« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 12:23:08 pm by MessnerMoto »

Offline Yoshimatic

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2018, 07:01:50 am »
I really like the look of this tensioner
1969 GL175 twin
1970 CB750 K0
1971 CL350
1975 CB750F1
1977 CB750F2
1977 CB750A (original condition)
1977 CB750A (836 Cafe Racer)
1978 CB750F3

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2018, 02:13:40 pm »
  Stan, for those of us who aren't familiar with the tensioner that you're talking about, how about a few pics or a better description?

I think Stan was taking about this tensioner. KA tensioner sold by M3 racing if I remember correctly.

If you read this topics http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150140.100.html you will see that people had big problems with this KA tensioner.

Look at the second picture it has a rapid wear... Read the several post in link above from people who used this KA tensioner, not a good experience....
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 01:37:29 am by MessnerMoto »

Offline cbr954

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2018, 08:14:58 pm »
I had issues with that tensioner as well, the problem gets worse when you mill the head, the chain only makes contact on a very small portion of the slider material.
03 CBR954RR, 72 750 chopper(970cc
F2 head), 2017 CRF450R, 2001 CR250R, 72 CB500, 79 XR250, 04 CRF50,70's soon to be rebuilt cb750 drag bike.

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2018, 06:45:09 am »
Just small update. I have all the parts for assembly. I will start shipping soon in several days :)

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2018, 06:56:51 am »
Excellent!!
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
DHolda/Seeley Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144774.0
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html

Offline bwaller

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2018, 01:21:14 pm »
Pretty damn sweet.

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2018, 03:22:42 pm »
This is one complete kit, chain does not go with the kit ;)

But you get

1. CNCed back slider made from PA 66 + MoS2 plastic with laser cut stainless steel support plates
2. CNCed tensioner made from PA 66 + MoS2 plastic with laser cut stainless steel support plates
3. CNCed middle wheel made from PA 66 + MoS2 plastic with NTN HK1312 high speed needle bearing
4. One fancy nitrated axel for middle wheel, hardened to 55RC
5. One Aluminum 8mm diameter pin. Sides of this pin are CNCed so it slides in upper hole of cylinders
6. One 6mm steel pin
7. This kit is hand assembled and riveted

You need this chain for this to work:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CATENA-DI-DISTRIBUZIONE-DID-219FTH-96M-HUSQVARNA-350-TE-1990-1998/351761127274?epid=1658174043&hash=item51e698d76a%3Ag%3A8GcAAOSwzgRWua%7Ep&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=did+219+fth+96&_from=R40&rt=nc

It is DID 219 fth 96 links HD cam chain with two extra links(OEM is 94 links). It is endless but comes open with link that need to be riveted

Final price is 160EU

Shipping is 8EU for hole world(I checked for several countries from all over the world and it is always 8EU, maybe there is an exception...)
It is airmail with tracking number/info.... You should not pay import taxes but maybe there will be some exceptions....

The hole price is 160 + 8  = 168EU or by current rate 197USD You can choose EU or USD....

This is low margin for profit. I can't afford PayPal fee. If you want to pay like you are buying product I need to include also PayPal fee 5%.

Enjoy ;)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 08:43:11 am by MessnerMoto »

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2018, 03:42:19 pm »
I'm in. Please send payment info and total without PayPal fees.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
DHolda/Seeley Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144774.0
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html

Offline 754

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2018, 05:00:58 pm »
 That sounds pretty reasonable..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2018, 07:59:35 am »
That sounds pretty reasonable..

thats understatement ;)


Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2018, 11:30:49 am »
No if only you made one for a 650 . . .
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline simon#42

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2018, 12:28:01 pm »
that is a good price ,   well done

Online Cb750 Racer

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2018, 06:21:54 pm »
That sounds pretty reasonable..

thats understatement ;)

Dam you work quick! looks good cant wait to test mine out  ;)
1972 Honda CB750 AAMRR Racer
1972 Suzuki GT750 Project
1975 Honda CB400f
1981 Kawasaki KZ750 LTD
1984 Kawasaki GPZ550 =>610cc
1996 Honda CR500

Offline Yoshimatic

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2018, 03:52:42 am »
I will get one please, I will PM you.
1969 GL175 twin
1970 CB750 K0
1971 CL350
1975 CB750F1
1977 CB750F2
1977 CB750A (original condition)
1977 CB750A (836 Cafe Racer)
1978 CB750F3

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2018, 12:05:26 pm »
No if only you made one for a 650 . . .
until mirko gets around to design one for the 500/550/650, you can use my solution

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,55162.msg593605.html#msg593605

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2018, 02:08:07 am »
Cam tensioner went to all parts of the world! It is time to write some installation info. I will compile it in PDF and send it to all.

Tensioner should go in like OEM one but there are some things to pay attention to

Installation tip 1.

When you are assembling the engine(cylinders, piston, head...) it is important to have the chain always tightened like in OEM cam tensioner installation.

But it is more important for this cam tensioner than for OEM, because if "kink" on chain happens (look at the picture) and you have tightened the head you will not be able to turn the crank/engine. If this happens you need to untighten the head and lift the cylinders from upper case a little bit to release the kink. Don't try to force the chain to release the kink by force turning the crank.

Offline Medyo Bastos

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2018, 03:57:48 pm »
Got mine, ‘preciate it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2018, 06:16:45 am »
Cam tensioner went to all parts of the world! It is time to write some installation info. I will compile it in PDF and send it to all.

Tensioner should go in like OEM one but there are some things to pay attention to

Installation tip 1.

When you are assembling the engine(cylinders, piston, head...) it is important to have the chain always tightened like in OEM cam tensioner installation.

But it is more important for this cam tensioner than for OEM, because if "kink" on chain happens (look at the picture) and you have tightened the head you will not be able to turn the crank/engine. If this happens you need to untighten the head and lift the cylinders from upper case a little bit to release the kink. Don't try to force the chain to release the kink by force turning the crank.
I received my 2 pieces....thank you. good tip too.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline kmb69

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2018, 08:01:47 am »
Just received mine. Thx
If they work as good as they look, you have a real winner!

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2018, 10:56:40 am »
Hopefully somebody will soon start using one :)

Offline CBJoe

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2018, 02:27:19 pm »
Hi Mirko...I got mine in the mail today!  Thanks much.   Unfortunately I wont be much help as I don't have a reason to take the engine down yet.  But when I do it'll be going in.

Sorry for stupid question...but this uses the stock tension adjuster yes?

Cheers, Joe


'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html

Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2018, 02:52:55 pm »
Hopefully somebody will soon start using one :)
I'm waiting for the proper riveting tool.....won't be available until 9/20
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

 

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