Author Topic: CB750K1 resto begins  (Read 5773 times)

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Offline scrambler

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CB750K1 resto begins
« on: June 09, 2018, 09:25:24 am »
Dear All, I registered here as I became a CB750 owner in December. I bought this bike for commuting while I`m working on my project bike which is ending so I`ll start restoration on the K1 once the registration expires on it on July. The Honda is in good condition for the age, it`s an early 1971 bike with HM300 mufflers and the small tail light. It was painted black back in the seventies, apart from that and the headlight with the chromed fork ears it`s all original. The engine probably needs attention because it`s leaking oil here and there, has some chain rattling, some transmission noise in 5th gear and I think it should be stronger. The plan is to restore it back to original. I`ll post some pictures soon if I can. Here`s a few pics I made last weekend.

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 09:31:01 am »
Coming up here.

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 09:48:21 pm »
After the bike has been sitting on the table in the garage for about a year, finally i found some time today to start stripping it down. Overall, it went pretty well, no broken bolts, everything has come apart easily, much better than what I expected. Another positive surprise was that all the electronic components are new on the bike, including the harness, solenoid, rectifier, etc. Great I won`t have to deal with that.

I post a few pics about the progress.
 

Online PeWe

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 11:41:40 pm »
Another historical beauty to get its former glory!
Take photos of each step when taking it apart, it will help you later in the process assembling it. Good idea to verify with manual to avoid PO's eventual mistakes to be repeated.

I have sometimes got thoughts if I assembled it right or if I forgot something, checked my photos and could sleep well. ;)

Be aware having extra engine parts on the bench. I found parts I thought I'd forgot to put inside engine. Not a nice feeling.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline dusterdude

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 05:56:38 am »
Nice bike

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mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 01:34:21 pm »
Another historical beauty to get its former glory!
Take photos of each step when taking it apart, it will help you later in the process assembling it. Good idea to verify with manual to avoid PO's eventual mistakes to be repeated.

I have sometimes got thoughts if I assembled it right or if I forgot something, checked my photos and could sleep well. ;)

Be aware having extra engine parts on the bench. I found parts I thought I'd forgot to put inside engine. Not a nice feeling.

Yep, that`s good practice, I try to get everything pictured during the process. Sometimes the camera can see more than I can, easy to spot things I didn`t notice in the first place :)

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2019, 01:34:57 pm »
Nice bike

Thanks!
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Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2019, 08:48:13 am »
Hi All,

In the past weeks I went ahead and disassembled the bike almost completely. I wrote a long post about it yesterday with a lot of pictures but when I hit "post" the whole thing just vanished and never reappeared ever since  >:(

Anyways, I`ll give it another shot.
I pulled out the engine, more precisely pulled the frame off of the engine, I stripped down the frame, it`s almost ready for powdercoating. There`s quite a bit of rust here and there, I`ll need a new triple tree bc the stopper is broken and new fork ears and headlight, these are from the later models I think. Here are some pics, let`s see if it works out this time: 


Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2019, 08:53:01 am »
Working!

Offline jakec

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2019, 02:53:48 pm »
Cleaning/sanding/painting my frame was my least favorite part of my build so far. What was that aftermarket thing on the throttle in the original post?
1970 CB750 K0
1970 CL350 K2
1975 CB400 F0
1977 CB750 Chop

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2019, 10:53:59 pm »
Cleaning/sanding/painting my frame was my least favorite part of my build so far. What was that aftermarket thing on the throttle in the original post?

That`s the indispensable feature of every serious tourer nowadays: a cruise control :)

Offline jakec

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2019, 09:39:05 am »
What's the screw on the bottom of the switch pod seen in the same photo? My 550 has it and I assumed it was for locking the throttle as well.
1970 CB750 K0
1970 CL350 K2
1975 CB400 F0
1977 CB750 Chop

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2019, 06:53:40 pm »
What's the screw on the bottom of the switch pod seen in the same photo? My 550 has it and I assumed it was for locking the throttle as well.

Perhaps that`s for adding some more resistance for the throttle so it`s harder to twist, in case you wanted to. Not sure it`s a good idea to use the screw to lock the throttle though, must be fun to loosen it in emergency...

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2019, 09:55:39 am »
That is one nice New Factory K1!
The fork ears are K2 or later, which you've already surmised. They probably got bent when the incident that broke off the steering stop happened, which likely also bent the tank, hence its repaint. You might find either some 'undent' work (or Bondo?) on the side of the tank opposite the broken steering stop. This too-far-twist often damaged the wiring harness right at the steering head, too, so that might account for the new harness?
The K1 had a particular issue when the New Factory started making the frames with the increased-strength lower bolsters for the engine: they forgot to provide a path for the water vapor that accumulates inside the frames to find a way out, as the new bolsters were fully welded shut. There was a recall notice to add a small (3mm or 3/16") hole in the bottom of the frame cradle, just behind the front lower engine bolsters, to provide ventilation. Here in the US, our (then new) high-pressure carwash sprays would force water into the frames, back above the driver's footpeg mounts, and it would collect behind the bolsters, rotting the frame. I drilled many holes there, and occasionally still do! (It was hard to forget, as the bike had to be held over on its side by 2 shop employees to allow a long electric drill to get access to the frame sites...)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2019, 10:09:20 pm »
That is one nice New Factory K1!
The fork ears are K2 or later, which you've already surmised. They probably got bent when the incident that broke off the steering stop happened, which likely also bent the tank, hence its repaint. You might find either some 'undent' work (or Bondo?) on the side of the tank opposite the broken steering stop. This too-far-twist often damaged the wiring harness right at the steering head, too, so that might account for the new harness?
The K1 had a particular issue when the New Factory started making the frames with the increased-strength lower bolsters for the engine: they forgot to provide a path for the water vapor that accumulates inside the frames to find a way out, as the new bolsters were fully welded shut. There was a recall notice to add a small (3mm or 3/16") hole in the bottom of the frame cradle, just behind the front lower engine bolsters, to provide ventilation. Here in the US, our (then new) high-pressure carwash sprays would force water into the frames, back above the driver's footpeg mounts, and it would collect behind the bolsters, rotting the frame. I drilled many holes there, and occasionally still do! (It was hard to forget, as the bike had to be held over on its side by 2 shop employees to allow a long electric drill to get access to the frame sites...)

Hey,

Thanks for your comment, it`s entirely possible that the chain of events happened just as you described. It`s weird though that if they fixed everything and even repainted the tank, why did they not replace the triple tree?

I`ll take a good look at the frame around the bolsters for corrosion. What exactly do you mean by New Factory?

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2019, 10:28:59 pm »
I pulled apart the engine last weekend. Overall, it`s in good condition to its age. I thought it`s untouched, but somebody has clearly been there before me. I think the rings are not original, and the pistons were seized at some point in the past. Also, I couldn`t pull the head off from the cylinders, someone apparently overdosed the red silicone and it still holds. I tried to force it but it didn`t budge and I don`t want to risk to break the fins...

Here are a few pics.

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2019, 10:56:25 pm »
Pulling off the flywheel was a real hassle and required a lot of force. I used a breaker bar extended to about a meter. I thought it would fly through the wall when it popped off :) It`s interesting that the flywheel has this collar that I didn`t see on later models.


Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2019, 11:00:14 pm »
The case had quite a bit of sludge, I guess oil wasn`t changed too often. As a result, few bearings have scratches and the oil pump rotors have bad scorings too. The transmission and all the gears look pretty fine though. 

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2019, 11:03:31 pm »
Few more pics of the transmission and kickstarter:

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2019, 02:50:25 am »
Following, good luck.

Offline kap384@telus.net

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2019, 12:46:56 pm »
Good luck.  Great start!
1965 Honda CB450K0
1972 Honda CT70K1
1975 Honda MR50
1975 Honda CB400F Supersport
1977 Honda CB750F2 Supersport
1978 Honda XL100
1979 Honda CBX Supersport
1982 Honda VF750S Sabre - Adventure Bike modified
1983 Honda CX650T
1995 Honda VFR750
2016 Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin
2015 KTM 200 XC-W
1963 Suzuki T10
My 1977 CB750F restoration - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66779.0
My 1975 CB400F restoration -
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=145196.msg1651779#msg1651779
'More Stock Than Not' thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=90807.500
My CT70 Resurrection - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=145221.0
Best Motorcycle Tool Ever - https://www.engduro.com

Offline MauiK3

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2019, 03:15:37 pm »
Keep the progress coming, great find!
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2019, 06:22:48 pm »
That is one nice New Factory K1!
The fork ears are K2 or later, which you've already surmised. They probably got bent when the incident that broke off the steering stop happened, which likely also bent the tank, hence its repaint. You might find either some 'undent' work (or Bondo?) on the side of the tank opposite the broken steering stop. This too-far-twist often damaged the wiring harness right at the steering head, too, so that might account for the new harness?
The K1 had a particular issue when the New Factory started making the frames with the increased-strength lower bolsters for the engine: they forgot to provide a path for the water vapor that accumulates inside the frames to find a way out, as the new bolsters were fully welded shut. There was a recall notice to add a small (3mm or 3/16") hole in the bottom of the frame cradle, just behind the front lower engine bolsters, to provide ventilation. Here in the US, our (then new) high-pressure carwash sprays would force water into the frames, back above the driver's footpeg mounts, and it would collect behind the bolsters, rotting the frame. I drilled many holes there, and occasionally still do! (It was hard to forget, as the bike had to be held over on its side by 2 shop employees to allow a long electric drill to get access to the frame sites...)

Hey,

Thanks for your comment, it`s entirely possible that the chain of events happened just as you described. It`s weird though that if they fixed everything and even repainted the tank, why did they not replace the triple tree?

I`ll take a good look at the frame around the bolsters for corrosion. What exactly do you mean by New Factory?

It's sort of ancient CB750 history now, but the first factory that made them did most of the work by hand or semi-template work. The heads, for example, were all hand-ported in all of the engines that came from this Factory, and the rest of the work exhibited less-than-consistent work, bike-to-bike. But, these were also the ones that developed the most power, so they became coveted and searched for by 1971. These bikes were the first production bikes to routinely reach 100,000 miles (despite the few BMW R60 bikes that could make the claim back then, but at great expense to their owners) and, if they did not suffer the chain-thru-the-cases from less-than-expected (by Honda, of the owners) maintenance, they became legend by 1970. They were so incredibly popular that they were sometimes sold for as much as 3x their normal price (for which Honda would revoke the shop's Honda contract, immediately) and became the most-stolen bike in history (until the CX500 replaced that record in the early 1980s).

By 1970 Honda decided to build an entire New Factory, building just CB750 bikes (at first). They got it started by mid-1970, with the K1 becoming the first ones from that site. they suffered some growing pains from using templates for everything (so their 'corrections' were not real pretty), but by mid-1971 the entire output of this place was CB750. Their appearance became more consistent bike-to-bike, with the usual Japanese drive to make everything exactly the same to simplify assembly, while their engineers worked on making the bikes more reliable (an oxymoron?) by taming them down a bit, so as to help reduce their high warranty costs. Keep in mind, nothing like this bike had ever been done on a mass-production scale before (despite those Arial Square Four, Indian Four, and FN's 4-cylinder 2-stroke bicycle, all hand-built, limited-production items) nor had anything ever had such a market impact in this field: Americans proved to have a real knack for destroying them within their 90-day warranty period - usually by abusing them harshly. After all, they could take the neighborhood's Harley, Mustang, Camaro, Charger, and even Corvette by 3rd gear (110 MPH), and people literally stopped and stared at them as soon as they saw 4 pipes on the front. I lost track by 2 months of how many people at stoplights (we didn't have lots of air-conditioned cars then) would yell out, asking me, "Hey, what kind of motorcycle is THAT?", and other such things. By the K3 model, Honda had resolved to completely change how their bikes would be made, making the most advanced injection-mold machines for first the 750, then the 550, then the 350F/250F and the CB360 twin engines. Those became the forerunners of how all motorcycle and most car engines are made today, if made from aluminum or magnesium cores.

But, the New Factory bikes lost some of the 'personality' that could be seen by the handwork that was used to fix up [this or that] defect on a 750, making it deemed adequate for sale without tarnishing Honda's image, which was a very sensitive point then. I have an Old Factory K2 (my first 750 was an Old Factory K1, with many problems) that was finished in 11/1971, using a K1 Old Factory engine that had failed QC somewhere along the way, then went back for remedial work, and came back to the production line during the beginnings of the K2 series. While this engine dropped right into the chassis, the rear crankcase breather (originally 6mm size) had been removed and replaced with the larger 8mm version, the left-front engine bolster was hand-fitted to the 1mm narrower K2 frame cradle (looks like with a file?) and the K1 footpegs and mounting bolt/nuts were used on the otherwise K2 frame setup. It also came with the #657A series K1 carbs, probably because the cam is K1, but since the exhaust became the HM341 quieter pipes, the AD125 Hitachi spark advancer was installed (instead of the newer TEC version) to try to help keep the plugs clean. This ultimately failed, leading me to rejet later and recurve the advancer springs, but in the end it got more power than almost any other K2 around me which became apparent when I could take another K1 or K2 on the street, despite toting a Vetter fairing from day one on this bike. This was part of how the 'Hondaman' legend got started (thanks to other 750 owners of the area). In truth, it was just about knowing how Honda had made them. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline scrambler

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2019, 09:27:23 am »
Amazing story, thanks for sharing it!
So, if I understand correctly, all the K0-s and early K1-s are from the Old Factory including sandcasts as well? How can you tell the difference? When you mention that the chain went through the case, you mean the primary or the secondary chain?

It`s crazy that there were such differences in the production quality in these early bikes that somebody was willing to pay three times more for an older bike, were they really worth it? This reminds me Eastern Europe in the seventies, when people could sell their used cars for 3-times the price of a brand new one, because after ordering your car you would need to wait 6-7 years for it to arrive :)

Btw, just received your book, looks like an excellent help for the restoration!

That is one nice New Factory K1!
The fork ears are K2 or later, which you've already surmised. They probably got bent when the incident that broke off the steering stop happened, which likely also bent the tank, hence its repaint. You might find either some 'undent' work (or Bondo?) on the side of the tank opposite the broken steering stop. This too-far-twist often damaged the wiring harness right at the steering head, too, so that might account for the new harness?
The K1 had a particular issue when the New Factory started making the frames with the increased-strength lower bolsters for the engine: they forgot to provide a path for the water vapor that accumulates inside the frames to find a way out, as the new bolsters were fully welded shut. There was a recall notice to add a small (3mm or 3/16") hole in the bottom of the frame cradle, just behind the front lower engine bolsters, to provide ventilation. Here in the US, our (then new) high-pressure carwash sprays would force water into the frames, back above the driver's footpeg mounts, and it would collect behind the bolsters, rotting the frame. I drilled many holes there, and occasionally still do! (It was hard to forget, as the bike had to be held over on its side by 2 shop employees to allow a long electric drill to get access to the frame sites...)

Hey,

Thanks for your comment, it`s entirely possible that the chain of events happened just as you described. It`s weird though that if they fixed everything and even repainted the tank, why did they not replace the triple tree?

I`ll take a good look at the frame around the bolsters for corrosion. What exactly do you mean by New Factory?

It's sort of ancient CB750 history now, but the first factory that made them did most of the work by hand or semi-template work. The heads, for example, were all hand-ported in all of the engines that came from this Factory, and the rest of the work exhibited less-than-consistent work, bike-to-bike. But, these were also the ones that developed the most power, so they became coveted and searched for by 1971. These bikes were the first production bikes to routinely reach 100,000 miles (despite the few BMW R60 bikes that could make the claim back then, but at great expense to their owners) and, if they did not suffer the chain-thru-the-cases from less-than-expected (by Honda, of the owners) maintenance, they became legend by 1970. They were so incredibly popular that they were sometimes sold for as much as 3x their normal price (for which Honda would revoke the shop's Honda contract, immediately) and became the most-stolen bike in history (until the CX500 replaced that record in the early 1980s).

By 1970 Honda decided to build an entire New Factory, building just CB750 bikes (at first). They got it started by mid-1970, with the K1 becoming the first ones from that site. they suffered some growing pains from using templates for everything (so their 'corrections' were not real pretty), but by mid-1971 the entire output of this place was CB750. Their appearance became more consistent bike-to-bike, with the usual Japanese drive to make everything exactly the same to simplify assembly, while their engineers worked on making the bikes more reliable (an oxymoron?) by taming them down a bit, so as to help reduce their high warranty costs. Keep in mind, nothing like this bike had ever been done on a mass-production scale before (despite those Arial Square Four, Indian Four, and FN's 4-cylinder 2-stroke bicycle, all hand-built, limited-production items) nor had anything ever had such a market impact in this field: Americans proved to have a real knack for destroying them within their 90-day warranty period - usually by abusing them harshly. After all, they could take the neighborhood's Harley, Mustang, Camaro, Charger, and even Corvette by 3rd gear (110 MPH), and people literally stopped and stared at them as soon as they saw 4 pipes on the front. I lost track by 2 months of how many people at stoplights (we didn't have lots of air-conditioned cars then) would yell out, asking me, "Hey, what kind of motorcycle is THAT?", and other such things. By the K3 model, Honda had resolved to completely change how their bikes would be made, making the most advanced injection-mold machines for first the 750, then the 550, then the 350F/250F and the CB360 twin engines. Those became the forerunners of how all motorcycle and most car engines are made today, if made from aluminum or magnesium cores.

But, the New Factory bikes lost some of the 'personality' that could be seen by the handwork that was used to fix up [this or that] defect on a 750, making it deemed adequate for sale without tarnishing Honda's image, which was a very sensitive point then. I have an Old Factory K2 (my first 750 was an Old Factory K1, with many problems) that was finished in 11/1971, using a K1 Old Factory engine that had failed QC somewhere along the way, then went back for remedial work, and came back to the production line during the beginnings of the K2 series. While this engine dropped right into the chassis, the rear crankcase breather (originally 6mm size) had been removed and replaced with the larger 8mm version, the left-front engine bolster was hand-fitted to the 1mm narrower K2 frame cradle (looks like with a file?) and the K1 footpegs and mounting bolt/nuts were used on the otherwise K2 frame setup. It also came with the #657A series K1 carbs, probably because the cam is K1, but since the exhaust became the HM341 quieter pipes, the AD125 Hitachi spark advancer was installed (instead of the newer TEC version) to try to help keep the plugs clean. This ultimately failed, leading me to rejet later and recurve the advancer springs, but in the end it got more power than almost any other K2 around me which became apparent when I could take another K1 or K2 on the street, despite toting a Vetter fairing from day one on this bike. This was part of how the 'Hondaman' legend got started (thanks to other 750 owners of the area). In truth, it was just about knowing how Honda had made them. ;)

Offline MauiK3

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Re: CB750K1 resto begins
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2019, 10:14:57 am »
Chains through the case refers to the main drive chain breaking and crashing into the case just in front of the drive socket, my die cast K0 did it to me back in the day. Drive chains were not very good back then and the sprocket size created a lot of acceleration there resulting in broken chains when racing a lot of Sportsters that were sure a little 750cc Japanese bike could never out drag them! It was always fun seeing their reaction when I blew past them.
Sometimes, if lucky, the damage was slight but often it ruined the case which is why some survivor bikes don't have nicely printed engine numbers because the new cases came blank and the dealers had to engrave them. I'm sure Hondaman has done many.
My current K3 will never need to worry about broken chains as I ride it a bit differently than I did when I was in my 20's, hmmm, things change.
Hondaman did the restoration on my head and cylinders, great job, great to work with.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki