Topic: Electrical help needed

[sixthwisconsin]

I have a 1974 cb550 with a 1978 motor that I completed a rebuild on 4 years ago and have put many trouble free miles on it.



Out of storage this year, I noticed some corrosion on a few fasteners that I cleaned and nickel plated. When I tried to start it, I had nothing when I turned the key. I thought the damp storage might have corroded up the grounds.

Here are a few things I have already tried and some other facts.

1. First thing I did was check the main grounds to the frame under the battery and the coil mount. I redid these after a thorough cleaning and reassembled with dielectric grease. I then checked all ground wires in the bucket and under the left side cover and had good continuity. I also used contact cleaner on all plugs under the left side cover.
2. I started swapping parts from a running cb550. Solenoid, Key switch and a brand new Rick's reg/rec.
3. Before these swaps, I measured voltage at various places to trace back where the failure was occurring.

Solenoid with key off:



Solenoid with key on:



from the regulator black wire:



I measured these with the bikes existing components as well as the ones from a running cb550 with largely the same results.

Interestingly, the solinoid key on results started at about 1.9v and rose to about 2.5v after 20 sec or so.

I also checked the fuse panel and fuses with all being good.

I have bypassed the safety switch on this bike by moving the green/red wire to ground.

I am at a bit of a loss as to where to go next and any suggestions are welcome.

[scottly]

If the voltage at the solenoid drops as soon as soon as the key is turned on, stop. Check the voltage at the battery terminals; if it still drops, the battery is dead and can't supply the load.

[sixthwisconsin]

Scottly, thanks for the reply.
At the battery terminals I get a solid and steady 12.67v.

[sixthwisconsin]

Scottly, thanks for the reply.
At the battery terminals I get a solid and steady 12.67v.

Scotty, Even though I was getting good steady voltage at the terminals, I hooked up the jumpers to another battery and sure enough, it came to life! Don't know if I have ever experienced that before.

[scottly]

Check the connections at the battery + terminal and the solenoid.

[sixthwisconsin]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master AGM and I did not anticipate a failure there. It was also on a trickle charger three of four times over the winter.

I switched out the battery to a known used one I had until I can get a replacement. Sometimes it is the simplest things one overlooks!!
Back up and running.

Thanks for the "Duh" moment, its just what I needed!

[scottly]

I've seen AGM and gel cell batteries act that way, where they showed a good voltage but fell flat on their face with a load applied.

[MauiK3]

I’ve had that happen too.

[newday777]

I've seen AGM and gel cell batteries act that way, where they showed a good voltage but fell flat on their face with a load applied.

They are susceptible to internal shorts.

[Deltarider]

My bike seems to appreciate the conventional OEM Yuasa very much, either the 12N12A-4A-1 or the YB12A-A. Reliable, long living and forgiving towards voltages over 14,5 V, so no need to replace components by aftermarket products of unknown quality. These batteries are a direct fit with tailor made terminals, which means: no adapters needed and no risk of errors connecting them, which can be costly. What else? They're cheap.

[bryanj]

12.6v is not fully charged

[Deltarider]

Right after charging you may see 13,2 V, but 12,6 V after the battery has been left alone for a couple of hours, is not a reason for concern. Less than 12,6V indicates a battery nearing the end of its lifespan however.

[Gurp]

Def time to get a load tester. They have saved me on a few days when I'm pulling my hair out.

[Deltarider]

You don't need one. Just crank the engine electrically and monitor the voltage drop, preferably on a analogue voltmeter. If the needle goes < 10 V, it indicates battery is at its end. There's your loadtester.

[PeWe]

My blue K6 got an AGM battery this year.

I had read before purchase that this type must get higher voltage during charge. Seller confirmed that.

My CTEK charger has a snowflake marked setting for higher charge.
The latest version of my charger has replaced that with "AGM" which is same mode.

Search on AGM battery charging:

"AGM batteries are designed to require 14.6v – 14.8v when performing a full charge from a state of discharge, whereas standard lead acid batteries need 13.8v – 14.4v, hence this is what most onboard chargers are designed to deliver – not the 14.6v – 14.8v that AGM requires."

I only charge over night at AGM mode.
Bike has also improved rectifier to  enter 14.6V during riding quicker despite low rpm riding.

I'll see how long it will survive.
I have had low priced car batteries that both died after 4 years.
Last battery a slightly pricier Bosch that will live longer.

My K2 has a GEL battery with other needs.
"The peak charging voltage for Gel batteries is 14.1 or 14.4 volts, which is lower than a wet or AGM type battery needs for a full charge. Exceeding this voltage in a Gel battery can cause bubbles in the electrolyte gel, and permanent damage."

[Airborne 82nd]

You don't need one. Just crank the engine electrically and monitor the voltage drop, preferably on a analogue voltmeter. If the needle goes < 10 V, it indicates battery is at its end. There's your loadtester.

Good point you can also use the headlight. The scanner for my pickup truck uses the headlights for a certain time for the battery load test you still need to start the test with the battery charged overnight.

[HondaMan]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master

...'nuff said. Don't use that brand battery, they are crap. Their very best ones are still made with recycled lead.

[scottly]

My bike seems to appreciate the conventional OEM Yuasa very much, either the 12N12A-4A-1 or the YB12A-A. Reliable, long living and forgiving towards voltages over 14,5 V, so no need to replace components by aftermarket products of unknown quality. These batteries are a direct fit with tailor made terminals, which means: no adapters needed and no risk of errors connecting them, which can be costly. What else? They're cheap.

My bike seems to appreciate the LiFePo batteries that I have been using for the last 11 years! I've yet to have one fail, and the only reason I replaced the first one was because it didn't have the capacity to spin the starter on my high compression 836, and I was beginning to lack the capacity to kick start it. I am using a solid state regulator to replace the archaic stock unit; would you trust a Bosch regulator?

[grcamna2]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master

...'nuff said. Don't use that brand battery, they are crap. Their very best ones are still made with recycled lead.

Mark,which is a better brand battery that you would recommend:Motobat or Scorpion AGM ?

[HondaMan]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master

...'nuff said. Don't use that brand battery, they are crap. Their very best ones are still made with recycled lead.

Mark,which is a better brand battery that you would recommend:Motobat or Scorpion AGM ?

My first choice is [hard to find] Yuasa AGM or Maintenance-Free versions. I've received up to 8 years of service from each of these. The Maintenance-Free one supplied slightly higher system voltage overall (12.6 as opposed to 12.4 volts), while the AGM never needed a 'Springtime reawakening' with the trickle charger, so either one was good.

I haven't tried others lately, but beware the "Made in China"mark. They have NEVER made good batteries, EVER. Still don't...

[Stev-o]

I've seen AGM and gel cell batteries act that way, where they showed a good voltage but fell flat on their face with a load applied.

That happened to my Z1 a couple months back.  Battery was fine one day and the next it wouldnt crank.  After a few checks it was determined to be a bad battery, was changed and all good.

[PeWe]

Good one day, another not is typical for batteries. Happened my bike and car despite no winter.

Car batteries usually show their weak status when -10C or colder, car parked outside.

I prefer when bike can be started with kick, ride without headlight in worst case if higher rev is not enough.
In this case a point ign is good

[RAFster122s]

Heat can kill batteries too...it is tough on batteries here in the desert SW...

[Maltboy]

My first choice is [hard to find] Yuasa AGM or Maintenance-Free versions. I've received up to 8 years of service from each of these. The Maintenance-Free one supplied slightly higher system voltage overall (12.6 as opposed to 12.4 volts), while the AGM never needed a 'Springtime reawakening' with the trickle charger, so either one was good.

I haven't tried others lately, but beware the "Made in China"mark. They have NEVER made good batteries, EVER. Still don't...

The DieHard batteries they sell at Advance Auto Parts are rebranded Yuasas.  They are made in the same factory.

[sixthwisconsin]

The DieHard batteries they sell at Advance Auto Parts are rebranded Yuasas.  They are made in the same factory.

Interesting about the DieHard batteries at Advanced. I'll need a car battery soon on my 2009 CR-V and will have to check them out. Currently running an 8 y/o Fleet Farm special.

Thanks to all for your replies!

[HondaMan]

Another good battery (one of the best, in my experience) that is hard to find - or moght not be made now? - is the Enersys or Gates wound-cell battery. These were sometimes called '6-pack' batteries because they look like a 6-pack of cans. These were lasting more than 10 years in these bikes. The one in my motorhome is more than twice that old, new in 1996. Pricey at $150 last one I saw, but worth it. You will need to find a longer battery strap to fit one into a 750, though, because it is 3/4" taller than the Yuasa original.

[rotortiller]

Many parts and battery components come from China even when built/assembled in different countries. Like most things anywhere batteries built by different companies have varying standards often reflected in price and not nationality. I try to buy locally but even then what you get is a mixture. Maybe China does dishonest things, so do most other countries-maybe China is simply better at it lol.

My first choice is [hard to find] Yuasa AGM or Maintenance-Free versions. I've received up to 8 years of service from each of these. The Maintenance-Free one supplied slightly higher system voltage overall (12.6 as opposed to 12.4 volts), while the AGM never needed a 'Springtime reawakening' with the trickle charger, so either one was good.

I haven't tried others lately, but beware the "Made in China"mark. They have NEVER made good batteries, EVER. Still don't...

Yuasa Battery (Guangdong) Co Ltd, located in Shunde, Guangdong Province, China was established in 1996. As the main industrial battery production base of GS-Yuasa Group in China, Yuasa Battery (Guangdong) Co Ltd has been very widely accepted by its valued customers due to its concept of precision and steadfast working.Aug 25, 2010

[RAFster122s]

Yuasa started in Japan, they today have the Chinese factory you list info on above. Doesn't mean that the Chinese batteries from them are total junk but, largely the lead acid batteries coming out of China for other brands are crap shoot material in many cases due to build quality. The Chinese can build good quality if paid to do so, cheap stuff isn't going to be built to high standards...

[MauiK3]

Yes, batteries are pretty uneven these days, I seem to have bad luck with them in general but once in awhile I get a good one that keeps going and going.....
I find that things made in Taiwan are pretty good in general, products from the Peoples Republic not so much. I'm sure they can produce good stuff, they have a fairly good space program. When companies ask them to make stuff, if they are looking at maximum profit, quality suffers every time.

[HondaMan]

...they have a fairly good space program.

Yikes, Chinese astronaut. Now, THERE'S a scary profession!

[rotortiller]

Speaking of scary astronauts, did they ever get that NASA Artemis moon rocket made from used antique shuttle parts off the ground?

[Remcod]

Not yet

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A415F met Tapatalk

[Stev-o]

Speaking of scary astronauts, did they ever get that NASA Artemis moon rocket made from used antique shuttle parts off the ground?

Yes


https://www.npr.org/2022/11/16/1137046007/nasa-artemis-moon-rocket-launch-success

[Stev-o]

The DieHard batteries they sell at Advance Auto Parts are rebranded Yuasas.

Interesting about the DieHard batteries at Advanced. I'll need a car battery soon on my 2009 CR-V and will have to check them out.

I recently bought an automotive Diehard Gold battery at Advanced. They are expensive, but come with a three year warranty, unlike most others.

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/diehard-gold-battery-78-group-size-800-cca-1000-ca-110-minute-reserve-capacity-maximum-starting-power-78ft-2/11018021-p?product_channel=local&store=6737&adtype=pla&product_channel=local&store_code=6737&gclid=Cj0KCQiAwJWdBhCYARIsAJc4idDPi9J1zlR3AweRLirVvQBX7g99iml6a-9T8s8F9R5vDVhoseybO58aAu8SEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Tracksnblades1]

Just for some economical information.

If your old truck, car, tractor,  bulldozer, etc ever needs a battery consider Exide commercial truck batteries.
I think the most economical is a group 31 with centered 3/8/18 threaded studs.
The local Mack dealer here sells these at $75.00 each. The lead post version are $90.00 each.
1000ca. Most of my applications take two for 24volt series. The 12volts apps use 3 or 4 singles in parrallel.

We’ve converted some equipment to accept them. Denying JD, CaseIH, and Caterpillar their $250 plus for the same..
JUst FYI for those that have a lot of radiators in service…😁

[Don R]

 I have three of the old Advance AGM batteries that are 5 to 7 years old and still working. Speaking of that, it's time to do some maintaining.

[BenelliSEI]

I live in “farm country” just outside Toronto, ON., Canada. We’re lucky enough to have an actual “battery store” not far away! Family run (three generations I’ve met) shop. I buy whatever brand they recommend. Cost a bit extra, but if I have any issues, they “make it right”. Last time I was in there they were actually changing a cell in a larger farm tractor battery.... cool place, nice people.

[MauiK3]

The world would be a better place with more stores like that.
We have a locally owned Ace Hardware here that has a kitchen store inside it. They are so nice and very helpful.

[Stev-o]

... a battery consider Exide commercial truck batteries.
I think the most economical is a group 31 with centered 3/8/18 threaded studs.
The local Mack dealer here sells these at $75.00 each. The lead post version are $90.00 each.
1000ca.

Some good info but where do you get them?  A quick Google search produced no results with that price...

https://www.google.com/search?q=exide+commercial+truck+battery+group+31&newwindow=1&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS786US786&sxsrf=ALiCzsZ5alivD5nJFhlBEyX-R643LnJAXQ:1672078086961&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiyp6Oj8Jf8AhVJnWoFHa3DBFMQ_AUoAXoECAMQAw&biw=1396&bih=656&dpr=1.38