Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 873296 times)

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Offline CBJoe

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1700 on: May 10, 2011, 05:35:43 PM »
subscribed, just did a quick skim through and I think there is gonna be tons of tips I can use on my build.
Great work
I'm slow as molasses, but we're getting there. Virtually every conceivable issue with rebuilding a CB750 from the first bolt and nut forward is in this thread somewhere. Except for the tapered steering bearings, I'd done those before starting the thread.

The only pieces from the original K2 are the frame and the crankcase halves. Maybe the triple trees. Everything else is bits and pieces from lord only knows what.

Enjoy!   ;D

Shoot... I don't even own a CB750 and this thread has been educational and inspirational for me!  I just got the thumbs up from Rose (wife) to start spending money on my projects after our Canada trip in July  ;D  I've got a CB650 and XS750 all torn down waiting for paint and rebuild.

You gonna try and come to the Rockers Reunion again on Saturday? 

Cheers, Joe
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1701 on: May 10, 2011, 05:59:22 PM »
Joe: Sounds great. Very important for the wife to play along, and that means we have to play along too. I've kept up our vacations, date nights, and her hobbies, and in return I have my hobbies.

Yeah, really hope to be there Saturday.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline CBJoe

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1702 on: May 10, 2011, 07:00:18 PM »
I'm suspicious as well.. she agreed just after I made reservations for the Story Inn Halloween weekend  ::)
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1703 on: May 10, 2011, 07:15:08 PM »
I'll bet that would be fun!  Remember this?

Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Raef

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1704 on: May 10, 2011, 07:30:29 PM »
yes my friends, that was a good day :)

Offline CBJoe

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1705 on: May 10, 2011, 08:15:08 PM »
We've still got unused breakfast vouchers for their restaurant from our last stay...... don't ask the details, but there was much drinking in the bar the night before  :o

Anybody up for another ride down that way for tasty morning food?  Maybe after 'zilla moves on?

'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
CB750K2 Hot Rod Revival http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,171693.0.html
'65 CB77
'66 CM91 (C90'ish)

Offline IndyFour

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1706 on: May 10, 2011, 08:17:50 PM »
That was a fun day for sure and a great ride.  I'm always up for a trip.
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Offline Raef

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1707 on: May 10, 2011, 08:25:19 PM »
We've still got unused breakfast vouchers for their restaurant from our last stay...... don't ask the details, but there was much drinking in the bar the night before  :o

Anybody up for another ride down that way for tasty morning food?  Maybe after 'zilla moves on?


yes sir, may have to get a room and make a weekend of it, maybe that way I could get the wife to come along

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/08/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1708 on: May 17, 2011, 01:56:37 PM »
Got our time in Sunday AM. Friday I had picked up the ex spigots from the powdercoaters, done in ceramic. A little less shiny than chrome for sure, but no rust and relatively cheap. I have 4 extras if anyone wants to buy. $8 each incl screws. I sorted them 4 good, 4 less good. Then 2 of each in a lot. You can put the 2 goods on the outsides and the less than good on the insides.



Taped up the frame rails to avert scratches from the screwdriver

Installed the rockers

scrubbed clean the advancer from 15 years of running and 17 years of sitting. Surprisingly the spring coils are still taught

scrubbed clean the inside of the rocker box, scraped out the seal area to reinstall the tach drive

Just got the call the black powder goodies are ready, shock springs, adjusters, keepers. Wanted to go gold but it was $225 minimum on special colors and for just the few parts... maybe this winter.

Cleaning the starter parts, alternator parts, etc, to put the engine sidecovers on.

Could I hook up with Godzilla on the Michigan leg... hmmm.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline hoodellyhoo

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1709 on: May 17, 2011, 03:56:36 PM »
Go MCRider Go!!! You're so close to having a running bike... I can't wait to read about it!
1972 CB350F (Back from the Dead!)- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20822.0
1965? S65 - Coming Eventually!
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1710 on: May 17, 2011, 06:02:41 PM »
Go MCRider Go!!! You're so close to having a running bike... I can't wait to read about it!

+1
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1711 on: May 17, 2011, 08:34:25 PM »
Thanks guys! I've been studying up on degreeing in cams. I'm running the bottom of the list WebCam #41 (not even the 41a). Its supposed to be a drop in, but I'll go thru the motions anyway. Should be a nice torquey street motor.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1712 on: May 18, 2011, 02:50:44 PM »
What are you using for source material re degreeing in the cam?  I have a MegaCycle 126 for the 550 to go in.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1713 on: May 18, 2011, 02:54:12 PM »
What are you using for source material re degreeing in the cam?  I have a MegaCycle 126 for the 550 to go in.
WebCam has a great section of their website devoted to specs (Timing Cards) for each cam and instructions on degreeing it. Besides that, I just googled "Degreeing the camshaft of a CB750 SOHC" and got many usable returns.

Don't know about MegaCycle or 550s.

When you get down to it, there isn't much you can do with a single stick motor except find TDC and split the difference. Then experiment after that if it doesn't suit you. But unlike a DOHC, you can't just retard the intake stick without taking the exhaust with you, for example.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 02:59:16 PM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1714 on: May 18, 2011, 03:46:52 PM »
Thanks MCRider.  Google is my friend. ;) :)  Just was wondering if you had some magic source.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline wannabridin

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1715 on: May 19, 2011, 02:17:34 PM »
hey Ron,

why don't you go ahead and just finish the dang bike up already!  enough of this longest build thread crap!  some of us are impatient and want to see the beast already!!!



 ;D ;D
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1716 on: May 21, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »
Yeah Ron, what Wannabe said! Oh, and if you haven't sold 'em already, I'll take those spiggots off your hands mate...........  ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1717 on: May 23, 2011, 02:12:34 PM »
Yeah Ron, what Wannabe said! Oh, and if you haven't sold 'em already, I'll take those spiggots off your hands mate...........  ;D
Yeah I know I know... We'll get her done.

Yeah, still got the spigots and screws. I'll get you a PM with details. The ceramic is not hard like i thought it might be. For no good reason, that's just what i thought. When I tightened the screws down in their countersinks, I little bit of it oozed up. So it won't be like the chrome that was there. If that's OK. I got them as tight as a 6" ratchet with a Phillips bit head would go, and it was just a skosh, wiped off with my finger, no residual trace.

While we're at it, ever degreed a cam? I think I know how to do it conceptually, pretty comfortable with that. read the WebCam instrutions and seen YouTube videos. But no one ever says exactly how they fasten the degree wheel to the ignition stud in such a way that you can still turn the crank. I'm beginning to think I should double nut it on the ignition stud and turn the engine with the alternator bolt. If so, I need to hurry up and put the alternator rotor on.

I've bot a TDC STOP from APE, waiting on that. Thought i could do it with a screwdriver and seat of the pants. No go.

I'll need it all for the next engine which should be a much healthier cam.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Doctor_D

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1718 on: May 23, 2011, 04:42:20 PM »
You don't need a special TDC tool.  I think a M12x1.25 bolt is the right size.  Turn the tip down to a rounded point and you've got it.

You can see how I set up my degree wheel in my project thread.  I used a lock washer and a star washer to keep the degree wheel from moving around on the dyna2000 trigger nut.

Sounds simple, but when degreeing in, only turn the engine in one direction - the direction it normally rotates.  The chain has a little slop on the gear-teeth and going back and forth will give you screwy numbers.
Take care,
David
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1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1719 on: May 23, 2011, 05:18:45 PM »
For better or worse, as consistent and dedicated as ... can be (I'm no match for Carpy analogies) we put our morning time in. The rocker box was polished when made 12 years ago. So much of that black aluminum residue was packed in the corners. Bruce worked on that while I reassembled the shock absorbers. Having received the tops and adjusters back from the powder coaters. Much better in black than the blue they were.

Here's the spring compressor that is simple and works very well. Can't remember where I got it, Progressive or MotionPro or the like.

Leaving the spring guards off, more of the chrome body can show thru.

On another thread we had a discussion about Monroe shocks. With some back and forth we concluded that Monroe was making shocks for the S&W brand, research indicating they were S&W design with dual badging. Sure enough, my shocks from the first iteration of Phaedrus are the dual badged S&Ws. I could have sworn they were Progressives, who ultimately ended up with S&W and retired the brand. So these shocks must be from 1980 or so, as Progressive took over in 1982.

These are 32 years old with at least 50,000 miles on them, and feel wonderful on the bench test. I've repainted them, and powdercoated the keepers, adjusters, and springs also and will use them for street use.
So on to degreeing the cam. Found a heavy gauge steel corner brace, with one bolt hols of the cam cover used it is plenty firm enough to hold the dial indicator.

I couldn't figure out how to install the degree wheel. So that procedure got stalled for further research. Since then I've bot a TDC 12mm Stop from APE. I though i could do it with a screwdriver down the plug hole, but i wasn't comfortable with the result. So that should be here soon. I think I have the answer for the degree wheel, gotta check it out.

We drug the exhaust down from the top shelf, hope to get it on soon. So hard to find time during the week to work on it but I'm trying.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 05:42:18 PM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1720 on: May 23, 2011, 05:39:30 PM »
You don't need a special TDC tool.  I think a M12x1.25 bolt is the right size.  Turn the tip down to a rounded point and you've got it.

You can see how I set up my degree wheel in my project thread.  I used a lock washer and a star washer to keep the degree wheel from moving around on the dyna2000 trigger nut.

Sounds simple, but when degreeing in, only turn the engine in one direction - the direction it normally rotates.  The chain has a little slop on the gear-teeth and going back and forth will give you screwy numbers.
The TDC Stop tool's on its way already. Can't have too many toys.

I skimmed your thread, seems you did the degreeing on page 6. Right where you say you degreed your cam the picture has one of those dreadded  Xs in the upperleft hand corner.

I've got the plan to put the wheel on the alternator side, should work fine.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline bikebitzofvt

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1721 on: May 23, 2011, 05:54:23 PM »
A short bolt on the alternator side of the crank should work fine.  Some bent coat hanger wire works well as a pointer.  I take it to the grinder and put a point on the wire to make it more accutate.  I've saved up an assortment of drilled & tapped studs and bolts, threaded stand-offs, etc for mounting my timing wheel to different engines.  Seeing your dial indicator makes me think - is there any way you can get that down to the piston crown - that can be used to find tdc in a pinch, too. 

A piston stop can easily be made from an old spark plug.  Break off the porcelain, grind off the electrode, then drill and tap the center of the plug.  Send all thread or a fully threaded bolt into it and voila - one piston stop on the cheap.

It looks like you're coming onto the last turn before the straight - getting close to the finish line here!!!  The last time I was this close to done with a project bike I took a week's vacation from work and wrapped it up ;) ;)

"If it ain't broke you aren't riding it hard enough!"

77 CB750K7, 77 KZ1000B

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/15/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1722 on: May 23, 2011, 05:58:05 PM »
A short bolt on the alternator side of the crank should work fine.  Some bent coat hanger wire works well as a pointer.  I take it to the grinder and put a point on the wire to make it more accutate.  I've saved up an assortment of drilled & tapped studs and bolts, threaded stand-offs, etc for mounting my timing wheel to different engines.  Seeing your dial indicator makes me think - is there any way you can get that down to the piston crown - that can be used to find tdc in a pinch, too. 

A piston stop can easily be made from an old spark plug.  Break off the porcelain, grind off the electrode, then drill and tap the center of the plug.  Send all thread or a fully threaded bolt into it and voila - one piston stop on the cheap.

It looks like you're coming onto the last turn before the straight - getting close to the finish line here!!!  The last time I was this close to done with a project bike I took a week's vacation from work and wrapped it up ;) ;)
Thanks for the comments, and tips. Yours with others should break the mental logjam. Maybe able to spend extra hours over the holiday weekend.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/23/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1723 on: May 24, 2011, 06:31:27 AM »
Sorry for not getting back right away Ron, I've been busy buying stuff on EBay for my next bike build. Anyway, like has been previously mentioned, I mounted the degree wheel on the alternator side, and used a piece of sharpened coat hanger wire for a pointer.

I made a piston TDC finder using the broken spark plug method, but I used a piece of alloy bar as the "finder" and it just slides up and down as the piston rises and falls, and used my dial indicator to get the absolute exact TDC figure. My Megacycle 125/75 cam instructions were pretty simple, and say to degree the cam at  .040" lift (or with the valve clearances set to .040") and it worked fine for me, my 836cc engine screams!

I'm still keen for those spiggots mate, (and any other left over parts you may have) but no rush, when you get around to it is fine. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/23/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1724 on: May 24, 2011, 07:50:26 AM »
That was pretty quick, no delay, I see.. Thanks for the tip. Consensus is to put it on the alternator side. Mike told me so also, he uses a 20" wheel facing the ignition side, and turns the ignition side.  A bigger wheel would be a neat possession. Don't know why I was fixated on putting it on the points side. I'm sure I've seen it in a picture somewhere. Double nutting it onto the stud and turning the rotor side would work too I guess. But i wanted to be able to see the advancer and its TDC mark to see if they confirmed each other.

My cam is a mild "drop in" but i want to degree it for the practice. I'll maybe use a hotter cam in a different motor.

I'm going to see what's the smallest priority box I can get the spigots into. I'll get back to you.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."