Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 876805 times)

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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 11/12/17 w/ New Vid & Sound
« Reply #4225 on: November 17, 2017, 03:20:39 PM »
Probably a stupid question Ron, but have you done a compression test? I'm wondering if you've got a valve not completely seating? Cheers, Terry. ;D 
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Offline CBJoe

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 11/12/17 w/ New Vid & Sound
« Reply #4226 on: November 17, 2017, 04:33:51 PM »
Probably a stupid question Ron, but have you done a compression test? I'm wondering if you've got a valve not completely seating? Cheers, Terry. ;D

Terry....Mike doesn't want to hear that kind of blather ;D

Let me know when you are going to dig into it Ron...I actually have one of those IR Thermometers and would be happy to bring it over or let you borrow for a bit.  Haven't used it yet, but this would be a worthy first go :)

Cheers, Joe 
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 11/12/17 w/ New Vid & Sound
« Reply #4227 on: November 17, 2017, 10:29:05 PM »

Probably a stupid question Ron, but have you done a compression test? I'm wondering if you've got a valve not completely seating? Cheers, Terry. ;D

Terry....Mike doesn't want to hear that kind of blather

[/quote]

Ha ha, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Mike's work Joe, but it might be something as simple as an incorrectly adjusted valve.

If there's not enough lash when the engines hot it won't have much in the way of compression, so a quick compression check won't hurt? Easier than stripping Ron's carbs, for sure! Cheers, Terry. ;D
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 01:43:28 AM by Terry in Australia »
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 11/12/17 w/ New Vid & Sound
« Reply #4228 on: November 18, 2017, 06:29:57 AM »
It was a while ago, and they all clustered around 220 psi. We'll be checking that and valve lash and such before popping the carbs.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline PeWe

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 11/12/17 w/ New Vid & Sound
« Reply #4229 on: November 18, 2017, 07:52:43 AM »
oh yeah, Air/Fuel ratio was lean at the bottom, but by about 3000 rpm, it was no higher than 12 nor lower than 11, which the Mikuni manual says should be all right. So at least I shouldn't hole any pistons. I'll get the low range re-jetted.

Check cruising speed A/F ratio on the dyno is my recommendation for a street bike. You will use yours on the street too?
I had too rich needles that was revealed on dyno when the dyno guy checked the cruising behavior which is most important on a street bike. Earlier dyno runs were mostly WOT to check max power and A/F ratio.

Slowly increased throttle from 2000-6000 rpm. A/F ratio below 12. I lowered the needles 1 step but it was still too rich when cruising around in normal speeds in city and country roads, stuttering followed by bangs at decelerations. I lowered the needles 1 step more and finally bike ran really nice and even. I got it verified on dyno too. (plugs look better!)

I had too lean at WOT on 2 carbs. Same I had adjusted the fuel level on by clear tube. I changed back to make all 4 to use same main jet sizes.
All above can be seen on 3 dyno runs: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147350.msg1953508.html#msg1953508

- Compression test show 220PSI? That's a lot! Without cam?

I measured my last rebuild and got 175PSI, cam DP315. I guess the overlap reduce some. My 836 had around 190 with Action Fourss SS-1 cam with less overlap.

I hope this will help you to find the perfect tuning!
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 11/12/17 w/ New Vid & Sound
« Reply #4230 on: November 18, 2017, 09:14:56 AM »
We had it running great last year, dynoed at 79 hp. Everything spot on.

Then I changed the pipe, and removed the carbs to send them to be cleaned but never did. Adjusted the float levels (may have been a mistake) and now it runs like this.

IT has the wimpiest cam WebCam makes, a 41.

I wanted to ride it but got sick and can't ride, so a friend runs it at the drag strip. No cruising.

It really pumps, don't it?  My first 888, pumped 240.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4231 on: December 03, 2017, 09:22:29 AM »
Valve lash was spot on. Cam chain spot on. Ignition timing spot on.

Comp Test: #1 = 90; #2 = 150; #3 = 210; #4 = 220

Sigh.   >:(   :(
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline CBJoe

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4232 on: December 03, 2017, 06:05:35 PM »
Valve lash was spot on. Cam chain spot on. Ignition timing spot on.

Comp Test: #1 = 90; #2 = 150; #3 = 210; #4 = 220

Sigh.   >:(   :(

Bummer  :o 
'07 Bonneville Black
'15 Moto Guzzi California 1400
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4233 on: December 03, 2017, 06:10:33 PM »
Did you notice a sudden decrease in power? Any top end noise? And I HATE to ask this - smoke? Frame kit? Put a real cam in it this time.....  ;)
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4234 on: December 04, 2017, 06:42:08 AM »
Ron, have you now done a leak down test to determine if it's valves or rings?
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4235 on: December 04, 2017, 08:10:33 AM »
Did you notice a sudden decrease in power? Any top end noise? And I HATE to ask this - smoke? Frame kit? Put a real cam in it this time.....  ;)
The Dyno run we did showed the loss in power. 49 now vs 79 last year. No noise, no smoke, Yes to frame kit, I'm ahead of you on the real cam.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4236 on: December 04, 2017, 08:11:07 AM »
Valve lash was spot on. Cam chain spot on. Ignition timing spot on.

Comp Test: #1 = 90; #2 = 150; #3 = 210; #4 = 220

Sigh.   >:(   :(

Bummer  :o

Yup.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4237 on: December 04, 2017, 08:12:24 AM »
Ron, have you now done a leak down test to determine if it's valves or rings?

Nope. It should be obvious once blowing it apart.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4238 on: December 04, 2017, 09:59:04 AM »
Ron
What do you think is causing the almost consistent rise from 1 to four?  60#, 60# then 10#.  Doesn't make sense.
Ed
ps. Are you still working the morning shifts?
Ed Spengeman
Indy
1971 CB750K1 (Stock)
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4239 on: December 04, 2017, 10:29:34 AM »
Ron
What do you think is causing the almost consistent rise from 1 to four?  60#, 60# then 10#.  Doesn't make sense.
Ed
ps. Are you still working the morning shifts?
I don't know, Ed. I have to concentrate my limited powers to add or detract on what is knowable. In this case, I only know I have to take it apart.   :(

Yes, we are. 10-12N every Sunday. We missed a few lately as I was out of town, or sick. But, its a firm schedule.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MRieck

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4240 on: December 04, 2017, 11:51:11 AM »
Ron, have you now done a leak down test to determine if it's valves or rings?

Nope. It should be obvious once blowing it apart.
I would still do a leak down Ron before you disassemble it.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4241 on: December 04, 2017, 03:36:02 PM »
Please leak it down while assembled.....it is a great diagnostic tool Ron. Please do it if you have the tool.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline CBJoe

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4242 on: December 04, 2017, 04:37:31 PM »
Hey Ron...I'm out of town until the 18th of Dec...but when I'm back I'm free to lend a hand..Just let me know  :)
'07 Bonneville Black
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4243 on: December 04, 2017, 05:41:47 PM »
Please leak it down while assembled.....it is a great diagnostic tool Ron. Please do it if you have the tool.

+1 it will tell you were the issue is - intake valve / exhaust valve / rings.  I borrowed the 'tool' from my local bike shop.  Easy to do..Youtube. ;)
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4244 on: December 06, 2017, 12:07:34 PM »
Please leak it down while assembled.....it is a great diagnostic tool Ron. Please do it if you have the tool.

I don't have the tool, but I'm inclined to get one if you think its important. I don't understand what it will accomplish, or how, but I've learned things before, occasionally.   ;)
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4245 on: December 06, 2017, 12:23:03 PM »
Please leak it down while assembled.....it is a great diagnostic tool Ron. Please do it if you have the tool.

I don't have the tool, but I'm inclined to get one if you think its important. I don't understand what it will accomplish, or how, but I've learned things before, occasionally.   ;)

Ron - a leak down test will test exactly that - leakage from your valves, piston rings and head gasket.
I've done it on motors that I've acquired with no known history.

As a general rule:

Leakage under 5% indicates engine in excellent condition.
Leakage up to 15% indicates engine in good condition.
Leakage above 15% indicates that engine components are worn.

My brother also does leak down tests on his SCAA race car motor so he will know when it is ready for a rebuild
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4246 on: December 06, 2017, 10:14:59 PM »
Sorry to hear it Ron, but I guess I was right in suggesting a compression test before you pulled your carbs, I'll be interested to see what's caused this issue, what pistons and rings are you running mate? I know how careful you are with your assembly, so I can't see how you could have busted a couple of rings in different cylinders during assembly, and it certainly hasn't done enough miles to wear them out, it's weird.......... All the best. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4247 on: December 07, 2017, 06:49:52 AM »
Please leak it down while assembled.....it is a great diagnostic tool Ron. Please do it if you have the tool.

I don't have the tool, but I'm inclined to get one if you think its important. I don't understand what it will accomplish, or how, but I've learned things before, occasionally.   ;)

Ron - a leak down test will test exactly that - leakage from your valves, piston rings and head gasket.
I've done it on motors that I've acquired with no known history.

As a general rule:

Leakage under 5% indicates engine in excellent condition.
Leakage up to 15% indicates engine in good condition.
Leakage above 15% indicates that engine components are worn.

My brother also does leak down tests on his SCAA race car motor so he will know when it is ready for a rebuild
But how does it tell the difference between valves, rings, or gasket?
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4248 on: December 07, 2017, 06:52:11 AM »
Sorry to hear it Ron, but I guess I was right in suggesting a compression test before you pulled your carbs, I'll be interested to see what's caused this issue, what pistons and rings are you running mate? I know how careful you are with your assembly, so I can't see how you could have busted a couple of rings in different cylinders during assembly, and it certainly hasn't done enough miles to wear them out, it's weird.......... All the best. ;D
ARIAS pistons and I think they are Perfect Seal rings, sourced from Mike Rieck. Could have been me. But it sure ran good last year.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod -Shop Update: 12/3/17 Comp Test: Sigh
« Reply #4249 on: December 07, 2017, 07:21:06 AM »
Please leak it down while assembled.....it is a great diagnostic tool Ron. Please do it if you have the tool.

I don't have the tool, but I'm inclined to get one if you think its important. I don't understand what it will accomplish, or how, but I've learned things before, occasionally.   ;)

Ron - a leak down test will test exactly that - leakage from your valves, piston rings and head gasket.
I've done it on motors that I've acquired with no known history.

As a general rule:

Leakage under 5% indicates engine in excellent condition.
Leakage up to 15% indicates engine in good condition.
Leakage above 15% indicates that engine components are worn.

My brother also does leak down tests on his SCAA race car motor so he will know when it is ready for a rebuild
But how does it tell the difference between valves, rings, or gasket?

If intake valve you will hear air leaking back through the carb / exhaust valve back through the exhaust / rings through the crankcase breather.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread