Topic: please help..have to sell my bike

[GoatBaSS]

Got a Sams card? GO to one with an auto center they should have the battery size you need. Take the old one for a core charge and you should escape with a 26.00$ new battery! KEEP THE BIKE! Do not let school get in the way of your college education! Athens is a great place to ride! And the ladies, boy the ladies. That bike and you, the soon to be biker, will attract more face time, and cull out the faint of heart. You sir are on the cusp of a great adventure!
Oh, do not work on the bike if you are frustrated. I know this is a daunting task now, but in a few years it will serve you in ways you could never imagine. L

P.S. Get a note book. Write down what you do. I know it is a Pirsig/Zen and the art.. thing but that was a valuable tidbit that has helped/ saved said bum many times. Plus it is good for a few laughs later on.

[jmill0823]

Okay so the brakes are a non issue.  The battery was bad and I got a new one.  After hooking it up, the bike still wouldnt fire.  The PO came over to have a look at it which makes me think hes a pretty good guy.  Its not like he had to look at it.  He sprayed some starter fluid in the intake and after a LOT of turning over got it to fire, but I think it was running on 2 cyl.  Not sure though.  Anyways finally it seemed that it was running on all 4 and he got it to idle at a decent RPM.  He hooked up a plug wire tester to the plug wires and it did not light up.  He said the bridge rectifier may have been damaged by the car battery being hooked to the moto battery and overcharging the diodes.  He thinks maybe its not supplying good enough power to the coils.  I guess I'll try to get it tested. 

But I think maybe the tester he had was made for a car and maybe the moto just doesnt put out as much through the plug wires.  Like I said he got it running and told me to put carb cleaner in the gas and run it for a long time to get the carbs cleaned out as best as I could.  I rode it up and down the neighborhood and it was SO WEAK.  It would not go above 4,000 rpms in 1st 2nd or 3rd (i didnt make it to 4th).  I couldnt top 30mph on a 1/2 mi strip.  I think theres more issues than a dirty carb, but anyways he told me not to try to clean the carbs and I know I cant because I cant sync them, but I'm hoping I don't have to pay someone to do that.

One last thing, I took some plugs out and even though they are new they are already BLACK.  At first they were just burnt looking, after I tried firing it a lot they had a little oil on them.  Now I'm afraid theres much much bigger problems.  what to do....what to do....

So after I rode it for about 30 minutes up and down the n'hood.  I parked it...changed the oil...and now today its back to how it was yesterday morning...it wont crank. I'm not going to sit there and spray starter fluid in it and risk blowing up the motor.  Theres clearly a problem beyond my knowledge.  SIGH 

[jmill0823]

Heres a more concise summary of the syptom instead of what I think may be wrong:

Everytime I let it sit for a while and then try to start it-It actually starts right up, sounds likes its running well, and then immediately dies, and will not start again unless I spray starter fluid in the intake, in which case it starts and acts very sluggish.

I just talked to someone at the local bike shop who said its definately not the rectifier.  He said its just dirty jets makes it hard to start when its cold.  He recommended me taking off the air box and spraying carb cleaner in the back of the carbs.  What do yall think?

[Gordon]

If the carbs are gummed/clogged up inside, no amount of cleaner run through the gas tank or sprayed in the carbs through the intake will solve the problem.  They have to be removed, and you have to pull out the jets, soak them and clean everything by hand.  Don't worry about balancing them right now.  A set of clean, good-working, unbalanced carbs is better than balanced ones that are all clogged up.  You can do a bench synch that will get them in the ballpark, and then get a synchronizer later. 

As for the plugs, clean them off and pull the plug caps off the wires to see what the connection looks like.  If it doesn't look good, you can cut a little off the ends of the wires to get a good, solid connection. 

Don't worry about the rectifier right now.  I've jumped my bikes off my car many times and never had a problem.  I can say I don't know enough about the risks to recommend to somebody else that they should do it, but I will do it again in the future if I need to. 

[jmill0823]

Should I attempt the removal of the carbs myself?? Is it a huge huge deal?

[Bob Wessner]

Is it a huge huge deal?

Ha, ha  .

Just kidding. It will seem like a big deal, but once you get at them, they are not as bad as they first appear. Trust me, been there. 

[jmill0823]

update time already...arent yall sick of me yet?? 

i pulled the airbox back and sprayed chemtool in the carbs and drained it...i got it started up and its running smoothly, and idling well.  the only thing is...lol...its only running on the right two cylinders (if facing the bike).  I'm pretty sure they are getting spark so i doubt its the coil-does this mean those two left jets just happened to be so clogged their not doing anything?  im not positive its only running on two but the two left exhaust pipes are blowing cold air and the manifolds are just warm and the bike is not revving above 5000 rpms. 

i really really dont want to pay 130 to have the carbs cleaned and i dont want to take the risk of screwing more up myself, can i fill the carbs with cleaner like somebody said they did and then drain them??

[Buffo]

Alright...the carbs are not that big of a deal...the biggest part is YOUR organizational skills.

When I had to dig into my carbs...so many times...so many times...I always get 10 tupperware containers to hold all the stuff...and I label them...2 for each carb...one for dirty stuff and one for cleaned stuff and 2 for misc. stuff

...take pics and take notes of what you have done and in what order

... do one thing, do it well then move on.

I like Berrymans Chem dip for carb cleaning...but it is a nasty substance. The stuff in the spray can from wal mart will not do the job.

On another note...NEVER SELL THAT BIKE...even if you want another one...keep them both...I dont know one person that doesnt wish they still had their first motorcycle...most wish they had kept every bike they ever had.

Good Luck

Buffo The Magnificent

[Gordon]

 
i really really dont want to pay 130 to have the carbs cleaned and i dont want to take the risk of screwing more up myself, can i fill the carbs with cleaner like somebody said they did and then drain them??

Do it yourself, man.  And do it well!  You will have to gain an intimate knowlege of your carbs at some point anyway, so you might as well do it now.  Once you get in there and start working with them, it's nowhere near as complicated and scary as it once seemed. 

As far as the running on two cylinders situation goes:  the left coil fires #1 and #3, the right coil fires #2 and #4, so if you have two adjacent cylinders not firing, chances are the problem is with the carbs or fuel delivery, and not the ignition.  Did you ever open the carb bowl drain screws to see if all the carbs have fuel in them?  If the two cold cylinders don't have fuel in their carbs, then your first problem is fuel delivery.  If they do have fuel, then the problem is somewhere inside the carbs. 

It's all just a matter of breaking everything down into the separate systems of the bike, and then following each system from the beginning to the end.  Fuel, Compressed Air, and Ignition.  If you have all three in the right amount and right sequence, then you have a running bike.   

[pmpski_1]

Do it yourself. If you pay someone 130 bucks to do it for you once then you'll have to pay them to do it next time too.

Don't be afraid... It runs like crap now, so you're not gonna make it any worse if you do something wrong.

I was in the same boat as you, first bike, paid way too much, and scared s**tless to bust open the carbs and do what had to be done.

Buffo is right, get ORGANIZED.
1. Take pictures and notes, even if you think you'll remember how it goes together.
2. When you learn something, write it down.
3. Get a clean white shop towel and some good lighting before doing the work.
4. Be patient.
5. Go to that big ass UGA library and look for some books about how carbs work and have a good understanding of what you're doing before you start.

Check out the link below to see a pic of my carb cleaning setup to get an idea of how to organize the stuff.

Good luck!

[jmill0823]

Can anybody point me towards a good tutorial on removing/cleaning carbs and such.  I am assuming the first step is to take the gas tank off?  Err?

[Gordon]

There are small differences between each type of bike, but here's a quick rundown of how I work on my carbs. (750K1)


Shut off petcock, un-hook fuel lines and remove the tank.

Disconnect the throttle cables at the carb end.

Drain the fuel from the float bowls.

Remove bottom half of airbox and filter, and loosen the hose clamps that connect the airbox to the carb intakes.

Pull the airbox off the carbs and remove it.

Loosen the hose clamps that connect the carbs to the engine intake.

Pull back on the carbs, alternating from left to right side to slowly rock them out of the rubber hoses (this should take a decent amount of effort)

Put the carbs on the work bench and remove the float bowls (some have screws, some have clips).

Tap out the hinge-pin (small screwdriver or center-punch) that holds the float in place and remove the floats and float valves.

Remove main jet and emulsion tube that sits above main jet and up inside the carb surrounding the jet needle.

Remove idle/slow jet.

Remove any o-rings and soak all jets in parts cleaner.

Spray carb cleaner in any hole you can find in the carbs and let it soak.

Spray compressed air through any hole you can find and through all the jets.

Make sure every single hole in the jets is clear.

Repeat the last four steps, and again.

Put everything back together and adjust float level as per the manual (you do have a manual, don't you?).

Carb installation is the reverse of removal.  You can heat up the rubber parts with a hair dryer to make installation a little easier. 


Also, read through Old Man Honda's page on carb work.  Very detailed and shows you what the individual parts look like.
http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/Rcarbs.html

[jmill0823]

I took the fuel lines off and filled the carbs with cleaner and let it sit and then drained, now it wont start, i shouldnt have wasted my time with that.  I am definately going to have to pull them off.  the easy ways never work.  thanks for your help

[Gordon]

I took the fuel lines off and filled the carbs with cleaner and let it sit and then drained, now it wont start, i shouldnt have wasted my time with that.  I am definately going to have to pull them off.  the easy ways never work.  thanks for your help

The reason that doesn't work is that the carb cleaner will just sit in the float bowls like the gas does.  The parts that get clogged up and need to be cleaned are higher up in the carbs where the cleaner won't get to.  You're right about the easy way, and even if the easy way does occasionally work, it won't work as well and you'll just have to do it again and again, and you'll never learn anything in the process.

You're welcome!  You'll get this beast running soon.

[jmill0823]

YOUR NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS but I just went out and tried to crank it for the heck of it, and it fired up!!! all cylinders firing, revving higher than it ever did before.  It sounds good.  I TOOK IT ON THE ROAD FOR THE FIRST TIME!!!  It ran as good as it could considering all I did was spray berrymans in all the holes.  It did die a few times when I came to a stop.  Which makes me think its idling too low, but when I started it up it was idling at like 3 to 4000 rpms so I turned it down some until it idled at like 2000.  Anything else I should do right now.  I could just enjoy it while its running, but somehow I think I should take advantage of the progress made and not stop here.

[jmill0823]

um okay, now when I start it it idles at 1500 for one second, and then it shoots up to 5000 rpms on its own.  where is it getting all this fuel from?  Idle screw??? Pilot screws??  Question inside of a question:  I think my pilot screws are diff then most peoples, they have little tabs on them and they can only go about 1/2 turn in either direction-they are on the underside of the bowls on the side facing the front of the bike righT?

[techy5025]

 jmill0823,

I don't think you damaged anything on your bike by jumping it. I have done that
many times.   Actually the alternator on the bike would charge a car battery...it
would just take a long time.

May I offer a couple of comments/suggestions on the carbs.....

1.  It is only necessary to remove the four clamps next to the carbs on the engine
side and not the four next to the engine.  This will make it easier to line up when
you replace them.

2.  After you remove the four carb bowls, you will find that the removable parts
are the same between all four carbs.  Take three apart and leave one alone to
use as a "master",  if you don't have a manual.  Note how the float goes on as
you can mount it upside down..   All the other parts can only be put on one
way.  Resist the temptation to "adjust" stuff.  Just clean and replace....especially
the floats....and put each part back in the same carb it same out of.

3.  Don't turn the adjustment screw at the top of the slides.  You may be lucky
and they will be close to being balanced....I know wishful thinking Bob! 

4.  Taking the individual carbs loose from the mounting structure is a major step.
I would try cleaning them in place before you do thiis.

5.  The slides in the top of the carbs are different between the left two and right
two positions...as you sit on the bike.  Don't ask me how I know!

Good luck ... you have gotten some very good suggestions...the best one was
don't sell the bike.

Jim

[jmill0823]

I appreciate the help, but that didn't exactly answer my question.  I am past the battery issue, and I am not going to take the carbs off anymore.  The bike is running better than it has since I bought it.  Its just doing something weird where it revs up to 5000rpms by itself.  I think it just needs some adjusting at this point. 

[Alan F.]

you will solve most if not all of your issues by a carb teardown and cleaning, the mention of spraying carb cleaner and compressed air into all of the tiny holes is what mainly will help you. just bite the bullet and do it.

[Buffo]

You got lucky by having your bike "fix its self"...I am sure It wont happen again.

By not addressing your bikes problems now will only make it ten times harder to find and repair when something else makes your bike poop the bed. The "problems" will mount to a mind boggleing proportion...untill you sell it to another dreamer.

Machines that are this old  are in constant need of maint. If you are unwilling to properly fix your bike you should sell it and buy a new one....or get another means of income because you will spend large amounts of cash on these bikes if you have the local shops fix it for you...if they will.

By the way $130.00 is a VERY good price on a carb rebuild...most shops want $400.00 - $450.00 to do the job...for 4 carbs that is.

keep in mind that just because all your cylinders are now firing that does not mean that they are operating properly...for instance...if the 2 cylinders that were not getting fuel are now getting only 1/2 the fuel they are supposed to you are running those 2 cylinders "lean"...which will run very, very hot and destroy your $1000+ investment(?).

If you want to keep this bike: go out and buy a repair manual for your year/model and read it...use it...ask us all the questions you wish...do a search here and on greenspun about the problems you are having now

And then fix them properly...the first time.

If you want to just burn the bike untill it dies or untill the end of the school year...dump one ounce of SEAFOAM into the gas tank for every gallon of REGUALR pump gas for 1 or 2 tank fulls and ride it till it dies...hell the SEAFOAM might help some...it might not.

in short...if you want to fix your bike properly, odds are someone in here can and will help you...but if you just want a quick red neck, Rio Grande Valley fix...tell us...if there is one odds are someone in here will have that too.

What do the tires look like?

Buffo The Magnificent

[jmill0823]

the tires are the originals.  no dry rot though...it was garaged since new, and in an arid environment.  they have about 1000 mi left on them maybe.  I still think im going to have to sell this bike.  I love it and riding it on the road today was awesome, but i cant afford to maintain it like i should and i see so many things i want to replace and repair and i dont have any income so i really dont know why i bought it in the first place, its just such a cool bike. grrr 

so nobody has any advice as to why its reving itself up to 5000 rpms now after i start it up???   

[douglascoolgrey]

You've definately got a carb problem. Sounds like your floats on #3 and #4 are sticking and then resetting. The bike revs up when they stick because suddenly the cyls are getting more fuel.

1. go and buy the manual already
2. you don't need to pull the carbs to clean the bottom ends. If I'm right, you can probably get away with Yamaha carb cleaner and a float bowl rebuild kit. Search the archives on cleaning the bowls, the jets and the floats. It's hard the first time you do it, but cake thereafter.

The quickest way to tell if a cyl is firing is to feel the header pipe coming from that cyl. Hot = firing, cold = not firing.

[seaweb11]

Sorry boys.......... but I think this bike needs a new home.

  You did your best, but it just wasn't good enough. Some will slip through the cracks. It's OK, just relax and say "I'm good enough, people like me, and it can be rebuilt "

jmill0823,  Perhaps when you sell it you could give the new owner our URL and we can start all over again.
It will live again

Love, care, and attention. and $$

[longtall]

A vacum leak would make it rev, check the carb boots for leaking.If you have the vac controled pet cock,make sure the hose is not damaged, This could be your problem (IE not enough fuel plus sucking air causing it to rev)... Hope this helps Good luck.

I had an old kz with the vac controled pet cock that was faulty, it would not shut off fuel, and would flood the cylinders out setting over night.

[Buffo]

I have to say that I do not think you gave this bike the old college try...

you could have tried to just clean the jets...this would consist of:

1. removing the carb. assembly - fairly easy - free
2. removing float bowls - very easy - free
3. removing jets - very easy - free
4. cleaning jets with beryymans chem dip and a very thin, soft wire - easy less than $15.00
5. reinstalling jets - easy - free
6. replacing all of the vacume lines - easy - less than $5.00
7. installing an inline fuel filter - very easy - less than $3.00
8. reinstalling carb. assembly - fairly easy - free
9. adding one oz. of seafoam to evry gallon of regualr pump gas - very easy - less than $20.00

THIS IS BY NO MEANS THE PROPER WAY TO FIX YOUR BIKE. And it may not completely clear up all the symptoms, but...

Keep in mind that for about $100.00 more you could do the job properly

Buffo The Magnificent