Topic: Mo the 80 CB650 Custom: "As the Spanner Turns..."

[Soos]

SO Brandon, would you part with that 550 engine?(I'd even remove it!)





l8r

[manjisann]

SO Brandon, would you part with that 550 engine?(I'd even remove it!)

Soos, I'd loan it to ya, provided it came back all ported and stuff 

SOOOOO aparently it DOES make a difference which set of tubes you put gasoline in    I decided I couldn't wait until tomorrow to see if my thinking was right, so I came home and put everything back together. Add a little petrol, some spark and she purrs like a kitten!!.... a big out of tune kitten. The important thing is she was running on all 4 cylinders, as evidenced by the toasty warm pipes    She rev'd up to about 5k really easily and as soon as I let off the throttle, back down the rpms go. I was too chicken to try and rev higher than that on the center stand so I have no idea how responsive she'll be past that or in different gears. All in all I'm a very happy camper. Tomorrow I'll try and sort things out more.

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

A fun trick to show off your 650's idling smoothness is to put a half-full bottle of soda or something on the seat while its idling and rev it up to 5k and down for a couple spurts... mine's so smooth the bottle just sits there with nice round ripples... Try doing THAT with a harley!

[Soos]

Careful what you say, I might just take you up on that one!
Glad to hear it is running properly now!


One of these nice days (lots of them coming up soon! ) I'll swing by and we can do a 650 cruise.



l8r

[manjisann]

Careful what you say, I might just take you up on that one!
Glad to hear it is running properly now!

In all seriousness, I won't be using it for a while and if I remember right you said you needed a 500/550 to test fitment of some pistons, so if you wanted to borrow it I'm sure we could work something out. And once I get her running I'd love to go on a 650 cruise

A fun trick to show off your 650's idling smoothness is to put a half-full bottle of soda or something on the seat while its idling and rev it up to 5k and down for a couple spurts... mine's so smooth the bottle just sits there with nice round ripples...  Try doing THAT with a harley!

My brother in law has a nice Harley, I may just try this 

The goals for today, bench sync the carbs (I think they are already close if not on, but may as well check), adjust the exhaust tappets to .04" instead of .03". Soos reminded me that the 650s are prone to prematurely burn out their exhaust valves and that this will help keep them a little cooler. Vacuum sync the carbs, hoping this will quiet the engine down some, I know it did on my old 500. These are the major goals, if I get these done and have more time, I'll just have to get more done 

Brandon

[754]

Try .003 or .004..NOT .03 or .04...

[Frankenkit]

I did this and al though the valve noise is louder I don't know that I've noticed much difference... probably a good thing?

While you've got that cover off to turn the engine over, try maybe greasing your advancer, or at least making sure it moves smoothly.

[manjisann]

Try .003 or .004..NOT .03 or .04...

Well geez, if you want to be really picky 

I did this and al though the valve noise is louder I don't know that I've noticed much difference... probably a good thing?

My understanding is about all it did aside from a slight increase in noise was keep the valves in contact with the cam longer with transfered more heat from the valves to the cam. I guess this helps to keep them from burning out prematurely.

While you've got that cover off to turn the engine over, try maybe greasing your advancer, or at least making sure it moves smoothly.

I admit it I'm lazy and haven't tried searching. What kind of grease do I use? Can I use that high temp silicone grease that TT loves for calipers? I think it's moving ok, but I haven't revved it higher than about 5 or 6k, I'm just to big of a weenie to do that at idle.

So I went to start her up..... and no lights? Huh? I check connections, checked the battery (which I'd left on a tender all night) and everything looked good.  After being puzzled for several minutes I checked the fuse on the starter solenoid, an one edge of it was just slightly black. I poked it with a lead from the DMM and it came off. Guess that would explain the lack of juice. So I went ahead and replaced it with a standard AT fuse. I think I'll run all my new fuses over to where the stock airbox used to be and make some sort of panel or something. Anyhow, new fuse and she starts WOOHOO!! I let her idle and warm up, hooked up the carb syncs, and all the carbs are pretty much drawing the same vacuum, so that's a nice bonus.

I did find out one of the reasons my engine was so noisy, seems I hadn't tightened down the exhaust flanges so once I did that she was a lot quieted. I still have some noises I want to try and track down, and she doesn't idle quite how I'd like. I need to check the manual, but I can't get her to idle below 1100 or so, but that may be right. The engine might also be slightly noisier because I have the pods on so I'm getting engine noise through those. And I want to try tensioning the cam chain while it's running, but I couldn't remember exactly how so I'll pop on over to Kits thread and brush up on a few things.

I've also got a fantastic oil leak, it looks like the Exxon Valdez under my bike, sans all the critters. I think it has to do with my oil pump. When I had the engine out I pulled the pump and I'm not sure it's torqued down enough, even though I've tightened it a lot. I'm really toying with the idea of using bolts or maybe some hex key bolts. I'm gonna check and see if theres a seal in there that I may want to replace.

Still a bit away from riding her, but she's getting there, and I'm getting more excited! School starts again tomorrow so my time will be a bit more limited but that's not too big of a deal since I have to save up some money anyhow. I think I'm going to replace the chain with a DID oring one so that's some money, and theres still some other odds and ends I need to work out.

Anyhow, I took some pics of how she looks with the pods and also the lovely oil leak   I even had the neighbor come over and comment on how much he liked the pods over the stock box and how that should increase horse power. I had to kind of chuckle, I gave him a brief explanation of why the stock box was good, all thanks to the thread by TT. Still I do think the pods look kind of cool and they are TONS easier to take off and put on than the stock box. Do they do anything for how she performs?? I don't know, but I'm stoked to find out.

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

hoy! That is the exxon freakin' valdez!  well, I'll let you do the homework and leg work on figuring out what o-rings to use on that oil pump, and whether or not you need to drain all the oil before you change those o-rings...

I blew out my shifter seal and it looked like that... after about 90 seconds. it was horrifying.

As for the advancer... ehhh... I used dielectric grease, I think, or whatever I had on hand.  The biggest part was marking which way it went (I put it in backwards the first time and she backfired pretty good) and just cleaning off the powdery rust, making sure everything moved smoooothly.

for your cam chain adjustment, just loosen it enough that the noise gets a little louder (and you'll feel it in the wrench)  then tighten it down again. Done.

[Hush]

The CB650 has the easiest cam chain adjustment I have ever seen, there is of course the by the book way but the way Kit showed me works great and involves hardly any tools and I can do it on the side of the road with a #10 openended spanner.
Put her on the main stand, bring bike to operating temperature, let it idle at normal idle speed (1000-1200rpm) then slacken the wee adjuster bolt off a few half turns, you will probably hear a change in the engine tone, retighten (don't strip) the adjuster bolt and you are done.

[manjisann]

Ok, I thought that was how the cam chain was tightened, but I wasn't  interested in possibly botching it if I was wrong 

I blew out my shifter seal and it looked like that... after about 90 seconds.  it was horrifying.

Done that before. In my case the shifter seal is dusty and not oily so I'm pretty sure that isn't it. I really think it's the oil pump seals. I'll just pop over to bike bandit and see what I can find. I definatley can't ride it like this, I'd lose oil faster than gas which would be no bueno!

Sadly I don't think I'll have a chance to work on her today, between classes and the fact there is snow on the ground (silly Utah weather, it was a balmy 60F just the other day,) but maybe I'll get some time tomorrow. All in all it's really nice to see things finally coming together! And I owe a good portion of it to this forum, between the knowledge and encouragement, I've just about made it 

Brandon

[The_Crippler]

I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said, except to say - once again - I love that color you went with.  Every time you post pics, I think that.

[manjisann]

I was able to get the oil leak fixed using o-rings I bought from Harbor Freight, so that was a nice. I also tensioned the cam chain, but that didn't seem to quiet the noise down. It sounds like a very angry sewing machine. I'm going to try and tune it again and see if that helps. It almost sounds like cylinders fighting eachother but I'm not sure, whatever it is it's rythmic.  I'm also wondering if maybe one of the cylinders isn't firing everytime, but I'm not sure how to test for that any ideas?

Oy, Soos, wanna stop by and have a listen and tell me if I'm just exaggerating?

AND I found out my Master Cylinder is leaking out the lever end, and it doesn't return far enough to push the button for the brake light in all the way. Since I just rebuilt it I'm a bit puzzled. I'm seriously toying with the idea of just buying an aftermarket one. Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

If your valves are set and the cam chain is tensioned, maybe you should try synching your carbs. 

The return problem on your master cylinder is probably the itsy bitsy, teeny weeny yellow po- er... tiny return hole.  It's like a damn pin-hole.  Best thing to do probably is to take the thing apart again and use a can of brake-kleen(with the little red straw jammed into the nozzle) and blast the hell out of every orifice.  ...then reassemble and make durn sure everything is in the right order and facing the right direction.

[Hush]

I think what he means Kit is that his brake lever is not returning and cancelling his brake light, we had this trouble on both our bikes, the 650 and the 400, it sems to disapear with useage!
I rebuilt Jaffa's one twice and it's fine now but we did get into the habit of flicking the lever back out with our fingers after using the brakes.
It will probably go away once you start riding the bike more.

[manjisann]

Hush is right about the brake lever, it just isn't returning all the way. I ordered stainless brake lines so when they come in I'll pull the MC apart, clean it up again, and make sure I put it back together correctly. I'm wondering if I put one of the little rubber bits in backward and so some of the brake fluid is leaking back past the plunger.

As for the carbs, they are synced, I vacuum synced them last monday but I'll double check them again when I do the full tune again. I also ordered some new exhaust donuts and I'll install them as well and see if that helps with anything. Ahh the joys of an old bike.

Brandon

[The_Crippler]

When you say "exhaust donuts," I trust you're talking about the crush gaskets at the headers?  Yeah, those are so cheap, I just replace them any time I remove the pipes.

[Hush]

Once you stop the leak Brandon, just get into the habit of occasionally pushing the lever out with your gloved fingers just in case it doesn't fully return.
It's one of those things most riders probably do without realising it.

[manjisann]

Happy April Fools day everyone!!

It has now snowed 2-3 inches here in good ol Utah, so I'm not going to be working on the bike for a short bit. I've found it's dangerous to work in when it's cold out, my patience and ambition go down in direct relationship to the temperature. *sigh* I sure wish global warming was reality and not just something cooked up to get funding and make money.. oh well 

Keep the shiney side up everyone!

Brandon

[manjisann]

I decided to brave the cold (ok, so that really only involve a longsleeve shirt and getting out of the wind   ) and I did a wee bit of work on the bike. I changed out the controls as the ones I had swiveled around, apparently they were missing the metal collars that prevent this. I also rebraized the cable holder on the carbs. When I made it the pull cable holder wouldn't clear the butterfly wheel on the carbs but now it does. And for fun I started her up again, I just love hearing her start and run   kinda makes all the hard work worth it. When I was mounting the carbs again I found that several of the clamps on the engine side were loose     I honestly have no idea if they were that way when I was syncing the carbs or when I loosened them. So tomorrow or monday (or when I have a moment) I'm going to check all the fittings again (wonder what else I loosened in my sleep) and try syncing the carbs again. In the mean time I went ahead and did a video of the bike running. It takes hardly any choke to start and only a small blip of the throttle to get her to go to 5k rpms. I'm really curious to see how it handles once she's on the road. Anyhow, how does it sound to you guys? It sounds almost like a diesel engine to me.. I'm seriously hoping that my carbs are actually out of whack and once I sync them again she smooths out. Otherwise I'm at a bit of a loss.

http://s582.photobucket.com/albums/ss266/ManjiSann/?action=view&current=100_1468.flv

Thanks,

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

sounds relatively typical of a 650, but very deep. What exhaust do you have on that again?  are all four exhausts getting too-hot-to-touch when you just let it sit at idle? Sometimes they can get a heavy, low, rough sound to them when one cyl isn't firing.  Delilah doesn't always start on 2 but after a couple seconds and a couple throttle blips, 2 starts and idles with the rest of them.

[manjisann]

I didn't check the pipes this time but the past couple times I checked and all 4 pipes were toasty (read, I didn't wait for the sensation to reach my brain before removing fingers  )  Well if you say it sounds pretty normal then I'll go ahead and give her another tune job just to be sure, since I honestly have no idea when those bands were loosened, and if she still sounds the same then I'll just consider it normal. She has 4-4 pips, I just love the symetry of them. Come to think of it, pipe 2 likes to leak what I believe to be water. I haven't really thought much of it since my 500 liked to leak water when it was warming up, I wonder if that means cylinder 2 isn't firing as much as the others. None of the other pipes seem to be condensating like that.

Well I'm just waiting on money and some parts and I should have me a rideable monster here soon!!! This is pretty exciting!

Brandon

[Hush]

I got into the habit of starting my 650, full choke, two quick twists of the throttle and hit the button, kill the choke when she fires (usually first time) and adjusting the idle speed to about 1500rpm then go inside and don my riding gear, by then the bike is roaring because the one lazy cylinder that never fires up from cold (not sure which one yet?) has kicked in and it is time to adjust the throttle back to a nice easy idle at around 1200rpm.
Not sure if this is common to all 650's but it's how I wrangle mine.

[Frankenkit]

I pull full choke, three rings of throttle, hit the button, jiggle the throttle a little until she starts good. 
Then I leave the throttle out and let her idle at 2k.  as she creeps toward 3k I nudge in the choke to keep her at 1500, donning gloves and helmet.

I usually take off with 1/4 choke (just in case, because I have a lot of stop lights and don't want to snuff her)

and by the time I'm about a quarter mile down the road I can put the choke in.

[The_Crippler]

...and yet, the owner's manual says to choke it for something like 12 seconds...