Topic: The Motorcycle Diaries

[Ecosse]

i have this one coming from netflix. i am slow sometimes and just figured out it's based on the memoirs of che guevara. i want to see it still as it looks like a well done picture; but had i known it was about that d@#$he bag pal of castro's, i might have passed.

well, if it's a good story i suppose it matters little. anyone have good words for this one?

[seaweb11]

Ecosse, based on your preamble, I implore you to watch this film with open eyes and an open hart. I can see how a ride like this could and would change a mans life.

On another note, once they drop the bike for good, I was a bit less interested...........

[Ecosse]

all rant aside i will watch with an open mind. it was his pre-marxist/commie days after all.  

it really does look like a good flick... but then it is hard to keep my eyes off that bike.

[ofreen]

It is just another glorification of a murdering S.O.B.

[Ecosse]

It is just another glorification of a murdering S.O.B.

i'm just gonna try to pretend it's not about him, but some other guy named che. i guess it's hard to post about a movie centered around a marxist without it turning into a political thread. 

i understand castro was/is a bike fan too. but i should stop there... next i'll find out hitler and mussolini attended the iom tt. 

[ofreen]

i guess it's hard to post about a movie centered around a marxist without it turning into a political thread. 

It's not that he was a Marxist.  He was a psychopath that has been portrayed as some kind of a hero and martyr for whatever motives.  The movie is yet another whitewash.   I'm not saying don't see the movie.  But a lot of people will watch the movie and come away thinking they know what they need to know about Guevara.  It's happened before, which is why people went around with his face on their t-shirts back in the day.  Might as well have a t-shirt with Hitler on it, as Guevara was no different, just a little less prolific in his murdering.

[Ecosse]

i guess it's hard to post about a movie centered around a marxist without it turning into a political thread.  

It's not that he was a Marxist.  He was a psychopath that has been portrayed as some kind of a hero and martyr for whatever motives.  The movie is yet another whitewash.   I'm not saying don't see the movie.  But a lot of people will watch the movie and come away thinking they know what they need to know about Guevara.  It's happened before, which is why people went around with his face on their t-shirts back in the day.  Might as well have a t-shirt with Hitler on it, as Guevara was no different, just a little less prolific in his murdering.

thanks ofreen, admittedly i know little about the guy and your points make me want to learn more if for no other reason than to be informed. bunches of youngsters still have his mug on their shirts yet know little about the man or the consequences of his ideals. there's always those. thanks for the heads up.

always thought this shirt to be a nice counter to the currently (on campuses anyway) popular one.

[sangyo soichiro]

I liked the movie.  But on the other hand, I am confused as to why Che has become a hero to some people.  I don't really know much about him, but I doubt the kids wearing his face on their T-shirts do either.

[rhos1355]

Che was made an iconic figure by all the '68ers. Something about him being the image of the revolution (revolution? what revolution?) Then, everyone wanted to be a socialist and pretended to have socialist ideals.
As regards the  film, I liked the scenery shots and the motorcycle scenes. For the rest, you can take it or leave it. Just keep an open mind.
There is still a lot of injustice in many countries. And once, we all thought that socialism was the way to combat it. Until the socialists came in to power, then it was "all people are equal, but some are more equal than others" and they too became unjust.
Peace brother, and long live the revolution.

[Ecosse]

Che was made an iconic figure by all the '68ers. Something about him being the image of the revolution (revolution? what revolution?) Then, everyone wanted to be a socialist and pretended to have socialist ideals.
As regards the  film, I liked the scenery shots and the motorcycle scenes. For the rest, you can take it or leave it. Just keep an open mind.
There is still a lot of injustice in many countries. And once, we all thought that socialism was the way to combat it. Until the socialists came in to power, then it was "all people are equal, but some are more equal than others" and they too became unjust.
Peace brother, and long live the revolution.

i couldn't agree with you more; when you look to some desperate times in the u.s. some thought (think?) the 'great experiment' was maybe a mistake. i guess we're due for a reminder why that's not so.

i really appreciate the feedback about this movie, all.



 

[Ryan 550k]

It's a beautifully shot film, The acting is great, as far as the story go's.......I'd say forget what you know about Che and if you don't know much even better.  I loved this film and still do.

[heffay]

i am slow sometimes and just figured out it's based on the memoirs of che guevara.

Well then, I am slower than you because I've seen the movie and it still didn't occur to me.
Ignorance is bliss. 
Many modern day stories utilize horrendous  stories or figures from the past... There is good and bad to every person's way of life.  Are we not allowed to see any of the good after they've been deemed bad by society?

Its a pretty good movie.  I believe it is also 'watch it now' on Netflix.

[BobbyR]

I rented the film without knowing anything about it, especa8illy the fact it was subtitled. If you watch it as just a film it is pretty good. I guess if you saw the misery of the people around you, it could effect you.

[Ecosse]

thanks guys. being the artsy type i can get into the story and film experience without dwelling on who this guy becomes.

as far as tyranny and cruelty having an impact, i tend to agree to the extent it might make you a agent of revolution. but i never understood how someone would see the answer to oppression being another form of oppression.

it just came in the mail (the movie not the oppression) and will watch this weekend. everyone who saw it supports the impression i have regarding the quality.

maybe i'll write a story about the young hitler but change his name. that would be an interesting social experiment.

[jaknight]

Say Ecosse,

I know we're supposed to be talking about che.... but, before he became a mass murder, Hitler was a complete slacker..... it can be documented that in a certain manner of speaking, he never held or had a job in his life....... even when he was starving to death in Vienna...... too dang lazy to work even for himself.  He did nothing for his own dying mother, who could no longer work to support him.

Prior to the Third Reich, the only time it could sort of be said that he did work and get a paycheck, was when he was a corporal in WWI........ otherwise..... zilch.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[Ecosse]

jaknight

aren't you being a little hard on the young austrian? after all he did come from a dysfunctional home; not to mention the ribbing from the other kids about kleiner adolf's mustache. 

(btw: i was poking fun before at those who try to humanize scumbags by showing their 'more sensitive' side.)

[jaknight]

Very Odd Sometimes......

....... how some people can be, who represent some institutions of thought or theory.  I understand what you have been saying.  I thought I would just add some trivia.  Biographies on people can be very fascinating.

I think I read somewhere that Karl Marx, while he was writing the communist manifesto, was unemployed and his wife and children were just about starving to death.  But, he was too busy writing.

With what I am going to say below, I am not intending to "slap" you.  It's just to explain my thoughts about some people and their convictions on some universal issues.

I remember once when I was in southern Arizona, out in the desert boondocks, just plinking and target shooting with a couple of my .22's, a revolver and a rifle, basically shooting tin cans, a guy who was an animal rights protectionest (I know this might be getting close to your heart) talked to me about why did I want to hunt and kill animals......... they had rights to life also.  I told him I'm not hunting and killing animals.  But, he said, that's what my ultimate goal is and that's what I wanted to do.  I said...... it is not, I am keeping my skills honed so that if I ever need to use a gun for self defense, I will be able to use the gun with skill and confidence.

The conversation ended with him telling me that he would meet me in Tucson at a Burger King to have a couple of hamburgers and talk it over........ I don't think he ever caught the irony of what he said to me.

Just as an aside, I am very sensitive to the plight of animals.  I live in an apartment and my wife and I have 5 cats that were strays which we rescued from certain death.  3 of them probably would not have lived out the day we found them if we hadn't saved them and took them to the vet's office immediately.  We love them as they are children to us......... I have probably spent a total of around $3,000 smackers on saving these animals that are, in reality, completely at our mercy.....

P.S. Don't forget to come back here and post your thoughts about the movie!

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[Ecosse]

The conversation ended with him telling me that he would meet me in Tucson at a Burger King to have a couple of hamburgers and talk it over........ I don't think he ever caught the irony of what he said to me.

   i know what you mean. i see it often. a very close friend and vegetarian wears leather shoes and belts. i think she converted due to a perceived (but scientifically never conclusive) health benefit rather than using animals for our gain though. i have no problems with hunting and such and i believe in eating what ya kill. my big issue is the cruelty of animals, prolonged pain and such. peta people will insist killing animals itself is cruelty; i disagree, in this world something must die in order for something to live. i suppose if soy plants had a cute face and made cooing noises when you pet them, vegetarians would starve.  

i understand hitler was a vegetarian.      

too each their own.

btw: no offense taken jaknight.  




i'll likely watch the movie tonight.


oh, i like your signature line...

"THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD........

..........EXCEPT IN A SWORD FIGHT" and

"There is nothing new under the sun.........But there are many old things we do not know"
BIBLE ---> Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

[jaknight]

The conversation ended with him telling me that he would meet me in Tucson at a Burger King to have a couple of hamburgers and talk it over........ I don't think he ever caught the irony of what he said to me.

SNIP
btw: no offense taken jaknight. 

oh, i like your signature line...

"THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD........

..........EXCEPT IN A SWORD FIGHT" and

"There is nothing new under the sun.........But there are many old things we do not know"
BIBLE ---> Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

Thank you Ecosse.  Your complement does make me feel good, I really do appreciate that.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[SOHC4ever]

i guess it's hard to post about a movie centered around a marxist without it turning into a political thread. 

It's not that he was a Marxist.  He was a psychopath that has been portrayed as some kind of a hero and martyr for whatever motives.  The movie is yet another whitewash.   I'm not saying don't see the movie.  But a lot of people will watch the movie and come away thinking they know what they need to know about Guevara.  It's happened before, which is why people went around with his face on their t-shirts back in the day.  Might as well have a t-shirt with Hitler on it, as Guevara was no different, just a little less prolific in his murdering.

Ha! Might as well have a tshirt with Nixon, Bush, Suharto, Kim Jong Ill... Che & Castro did what they did and had the support that they had for the same ultimate reasons as all of the other criminals in suits (or fatigues, as the case may be): Nationalism and collective dogma.
I didn't hear any public outcry about the Bush biopic. Former Canadian PM Jean Chretien is still welcomed as an international diplomat - nobody would make a stir about a movie that anyone made about him (because it would probably be a pretty boring movie).

People identify with Che because he always had his boots on the ground. He hated his desk job in Cuba, was passionate about what he believed in and was so good at what he did - and such an extreme threat to his enemies - that the best military in the world hunted him down and exterminated him. The guy had the kind of passion for his life's work that you just don't see in top level politicos. From a military and military strategy standpoint - the guy was, well, revolutionary.
Sure, most of the clowns wearing the shirt have no clue. But the people who wear it for a reason (Rage Against The Machine used the Che logo lots) know what they're projecting and it isn't murder. Ironically, it's quality.

I just had a wicked Canada Day - The traditional cookout in the park while my country's military defends my freedom by killing people in Afghanistan... who have likely never heard of Canada.
I hope that everyone down south has a good 4th of July.

[Ecosse]

i know i will, thanks.

[BeSeeingYou]

i guess it's hard to post about a movie centered around a marxist without it turning into a political thread. 

It's not that he was a Marxist.  He was a psychopath that has been portrayed as some kind of a hero and martyr for whatever motives.  The movie is yet another whitewash.   I'm not saying don't see the movie.  But a lot of people will watch the movie and come away thinking they know what they need to know about Guevara.  It's happened before, which is why people went around with his face on their t-shirts back in the day.  Might as well have a t-shirt with Hitler on it, as Guevara was no different, just a little less prolific in his murdering.

I would say that Che and Castro would never have come to power or been popular if the U.S. had actually lived up to it's ideals of freedom and democracy in Central and South America from the  the early 1900's through the 1980's.  Overthrowing governments, training death squads, and propping up brutal dictatorships at war with their own people was par for the course.  If you actually know the true history you would find the U.S. behavior criminal and responsible for far more death and destruction than Che or Castro could ever have dreamed of.  Sometimes you need to view things through a different perspective than a myopic, jingoistic American centered view that is often glaringly inaccurate to get a true understanding of people and events.

[jaknight]

Yes,

I had a great 4th of July.  Celebrated the wisdom of our Founding Fathers.

I also paid tribute to my grandfather, who fought to keep us, and the rest of the world, free in World War I.

And, I paid tribute to my father, who was a young and scared kid on the beaches of Normandy during World War II (my grandmother showed me a letter from him, written in England 2 nights before the invasion, where he was telling his mother how scared he was).

God Bless both of them, and may they both Rest In Peace.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[BobbyR]

Yes,

I had a great 4th of July.  Celebrated the wisdom of our Founding Fathers.

I also paid tribute to my grandfather, who fought to keep us, and the rest of the world, free in World War I.

And, I paid tribute to my father, who was a young and scared kid on the beaches of Normandy during World War II (my grandmother showed me a letter from him, written in England 2 nights before the invasion, where he was telling his mother how scared he was).

God Bless both of them, and may they both Rest In Peace.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

+1 on that. My Late Father in Law was there with your Father. Only once in the 25 years I knew him did he speak of what he saw during the landings. They came back and went to work. They truly may have been our grestest generation.

[jaknight]

BobbyR,

+1 on that. My Late Father in Law was there with your Father. Only once in the 25 years I knew him did he speak of what he saw during the landings. They came back and went to work. They truly may have been our grestest generation.

+1  Also on that.  My father spoke once to me about Normandy...... he talked for less than 5 minutes....... It was plenty enough to make me realize he still would have nightmares about what he went through there.  But, he most certainly had a solid grip on things in his life.  More than 40 years of working....... he never missed a single day of work in his life.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~