Author Topic: am I an idiot??  (Read 4942 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ateamsam

  • Guest
am I an idiot??
« on: August 07, 2009, 02:43:27 PM »
Hey guys!

I'm new at all things mechanical so I bought a Clymers repair manual so I can work on my 1974 CB550.  I started to do a tune-up but have gotten stuck on the valve adjustment portion.  I know i'm probably screwing this up so I need you guys to tell me where I'm screwing up.
After removing the tappets and turing the crankshaft the #4 cylinder was at TDC.  I know this because the rocker arm could be wiggled side-to-side).  Anyways, here is where my confusion sets in;  Where am I supposed to put the feeler gauge??  I loosened the locknut and placed the feeler gauge between it and the rocker arm.  Is that right?  I ask this because there is a considerable gap between the stem below the rocker arm and what ever that stem attaches too.  If anyone can explain how I am supposed to do this or can provide some detailed pictures that would be awesome.


newbie,
Sam 

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 03:14:03 PM »
You put the feeler gauge in the tiny gap between the bottom of the tappet and the top of the valve stem.  This is very difficult to do if you don't have angled feelers.  With a flashlight, look closely at the rocker as you move it up and down.  The space at the bottom, between the part that moves and the part that doesn't move, is what you're measuring. 

Offline Triffecpa

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 03:14:30 PM »
Sam

the locknut holds the adjuster screw in place.  When you loosen the lock nut, you can now screw the adjuster screw down or back it back up.  The feeler gauge goes between the bottom of the adjuster screw and the top of the valve that it rides on.  

It's a major pain on most SOHC Hondas to fit the feeler gauge between the adjuster screw and the valve stem and then tighten or loosen the adjuster screw and then use your third hand to retighten the lock nut.

Good luck.

Tracy

Offline JS550

  • the artist formerly known as
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 621
  • IAFF local 1307
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 03:18:55 PM »
I just bent my feelers a little at the tips! Maybe a 1/4 or so at the ends. You know, when my wife asks me, "am I am idiot?" I usually say yes! Which is followed by some obscenities that I wont repeat here.
If you're worried about how many calories are in beer, is losing weight really your biggest problem?

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 03:22:19 PM »
and then use your third hand to retighten the lock nut.


Does a third leg count?

ateamsam

  • Guest
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 03:27:10 PM »
I've looked for pictures and can't seem to find any.  Does anyone have any detailed pics?

Offline JS550

  • the artist formerly known as
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 621
  • IAFF local 1307
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 03:30:42 PM »
I know your not asking for a detailed pic of someones third leg?!! :o

If you're worried about how many calories are in beer, is losing weight really your biggest problem?

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 03:38:20 PM »
I know your not asking for a detailed pic of someones third leg?!! :o



 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Where's that spit-take emoticon when you need it!?

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 03:43:19 PM »
I've looked for pictures and can't seem to find any.  Does anyone have any detailed pics?

I don't have any detailed pics, but a description should work.  The adjusting screw that you you turn after you've loosened the lock-nut is the part of the valve rocker that actually makes contact with the valve stem.  It's essentially just a screw.  The gap at the bottom of this screw is where you need to insert the feeler gauges.  Just follow it from the top down to the bottom and you'll see what you're trying to measure.   

Offline 333

  • Time for change
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,558
  • Mail List Member #162 - Call me Stan
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 04:06:56 PM »
As I see it, your problem stems from the Clymer.  The Honda manual has plenty of pictures to actually see what you need to do on the bike you actually have.  Clymer's usually cover several models, and sometimes even use pictures from totally different bikes.
Go metric, every inch of the way!

CB350F0  "Scrouching Tiger"
CT70K0    "Sneezing Poodle"

www.alexandriaseaport.org

ateamsam

  • Guest
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 05:13:57 PM »
Okay, since Clymer sucks and I suck at visualizing written text, I've taken a photo for you guys to help.  Which should I be measuring?

Offline scunny

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,615
  • don't call me expert
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 05:24:00 PM »
that slotted bolt is the adjuster, you measure between that and the top of the valve stem( which lies under that adjuster) the top nut is a lock nut
past-cb100,ts250,cb500,cb500,gs1000,gs650g.phillips traveller
present-CB 650 retro
            VTR1000F3
           XL250S riverbed rocket
           TS250[sold]
           TS185[sold]
           XL125S[sold]
           MT50 (white)
           MT50 (red)[sold]
           KN250/XS400 project
           XR/XL250 bitsa under construction
           SL100[sold]
           XL250R
           pedal(pub bike) leaks oil
my gallery http://gallery.sohc4.net/members/personal/scunny

Offline steam-powered man

  • Not the eggman, Not the walrus, I am the
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 591
  • Where are you going? I was going to make Espresso
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 05:40:35 PM »
i usually start with #1 at TDC, confirming by making sure both rockers can wiggle a bit. 
searching for a dr350se

Offline JS550

  • the artist formerly known as
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 621
  • IAFF local 1307
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2009, 05:58:28 PM »
You might want to see if you can find someone to give you a hand? Not to sound like a douche, but you can really make you bike run sh!tty or even cause serious damage. If you have never set valves before on any type of vehicle consider getting together with someone who has. If for anything to watch & make sure you get it right. You might even find someone on here thats close to you.
jim
If you're worried about how many calories are in beer, is losing weight really your biggest problem?

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,725
  • Ex Honda Service Manager, Cert. Honda Tech - Racer
    • BentON Racing
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2009, 08:42:08 PM »
Good idea if anyone lives near you,don't forget to adjust cam chain first.Bill
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
BentON Racing Facebook
Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2009, 09:02:35 PM »
Okay, since Clymer sucks and I suck at visualizing written text, I've taken a photo for you guys to help.  Which should I be measuring?

The second picture is where you measure.  It's really hard to actually see the gap, but you can get a feeler gauge into it. 

Offline DavePhipps

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,150
  • Reading the entire Hi-Perf forum
    • Hillside Technology
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2009, 09:04:20 PM »
You might want to see if you can find someone to give you a hand? Not to sound like a douche, but you can really make you bike run sh!tty or even cause serious damage. If you have never set valves before on any type of vehicle consider getting together with someone who has. If for anything to watch & make sure you get it right. You might even find someone on here thats close to you.
jim

And don't get distracted by hot chicks while you do this. I got some bent valves because I got VERY distracted.
She was worth it though 8)
Bikes:
90 FZR600 RA
74 CB550k
78 GL1000
72 CB500K

ateamsam

  • Guest
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2009, 10:34:30 PM »
Gordon, thanks for letting me know which picture was right.  Not sure if I'll have time to tackle it tomorrow but its nice to see that a picture helps remove some of the guess work. 

And Jim ... you're not a douche.   Asking for someone to help is probably the right thing to do.  Thanks for looking out for the bike ;)

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2009, 10:46:04 PM »
Gordon, thanks for letting me know which picture was right.  Not sure if I'll have time to tackle it tomorrow but its nice to see that a picture helps remove some of the guess work. 

Yep, pictures always help. :)  The tappet adjuster is just a screw, so what you're measuring is the tiny gap between the bottom tip of that screw and the top of the valve stem. 

Offline Frankenkit

  • Industrial Strength
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,525
  • 2012 CBR250R, 72 CL350, Member #4600
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 07:04:36 AM »
I second the help.  I bent a couple valves this way. :(
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 07:55:02 AM »
Gordon, thanks for letting me know which picture was right.  Not sure if I'll have time to tackle it tomorrow but its nice to see that a picture helps remove some of the guess work. 

Yep, pictures always help. :)  The tappet adjuster is just a screw, so what you're measuring is the tiny gap between the bottom tip of that screw and the top of the valve stem. 

It helps to have a tappet adjuster that is made specifically for the task.
It will take you a while to get the procedure down right because whenever you tighten down the nut to secure the clearance, the screw will want to tighten more on you. It will take you a while to get a feel for tightening down the screw so far to allow for some further gap closing when you tighten the nut down.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline the technological J

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,490
  • deliciouso!
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 08:07:42 AM »
how do u guys feel about running 4 instead of 2 and 3 (hundredths of a mm i think) on intake and exaust... i think ive seen some discussions about this on here and even on thoughts of the honda man.... i have a 550 by the way... anybody do this is there any differences that it makes?
70 KO...sold to fund the ST http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88800.0(Alpha)
74 Kaw 250 Enduro http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=124278.0
K4 added to collection! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=104784.0
78 750K... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60257.0 (Omega)sold to fund the K4
94 ST1100..Gone
72 750 K2 Stay tuned!

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,725
  • Ex Honda Service Manager, Cert. Honda Tech - Racer
    • BentON Racing
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2009, 08:12:34 AM »
that slotted bolt is the adjuster, you measure between that and the top of the valve stem( which lies under that adjuster) the top nut is a lock nut
Scunny,is that you having fun with that rear tire,light em up!!,if so stay over there  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D,Bill
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
BentON Racing Facebook
Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline Frankenkit

  • Industrial Strength
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,525
  • 2012 CBR250R, 72 CL350, Member #4600
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2009, 09:02:18 AM »
I think that's mostly for the 750F and 650.  Could be wrong, though.  If I read my info right, for those two models, Honda decided (in their infinite wisdom) to narrow the clearance thereby somehow keeping the oil cleaner (?) to lengthen the time between oil changes to match or beat the competition... because hondas are supposed to be low-maintenance, right?  Unfortunately that meant 650s would be notorious for burning valves. 

SO....
slappy valves are happy valves.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: am I an idiot??
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2009, 09:05:54 AM »
Hondaman said you could go to 0.003 and 0.004 on the K models and no damage would be done if I remember right.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F