Author Topic: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe  (Read 119977 times)

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Offline brycegp

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #350 on: February 11, 2012, 06:16:56 PM »
The Doctor is IN!  Man...some sick bikes getting finished lately...skills.

Beautiful...the orange reminds me of Mopar Muscle...grew up with it all around me.  Great work...
1971 CB750K/F - El Toro
El Toro Build Thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=73552.0

Offline brycegp

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #351 on: February 11, 2012, 06:22:40 PM »
The Doctor is IN!  Man...some sick bikes getting finished lately...skills.

Beautiful...the orange reminds me of Mopar Muscle...grew up with it all around me.  Great work...the dyno vid is sick!
1971 CB750K/F - El Toro
El Toro Build Thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=73552.0

Offline MRieck

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Re: Hot Street 1975 CB750F
« Reply #352 on: February 11, 2012, 07:06:17 PM »



This is one of the coolest pictures.
Great framing.

Cheers
FJ
I agree....beautiful and simple. It would make a great poster.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Industrial Rat400f Killer

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #353 on: February 14, 2012, 07:55:33 AM »
Saw your bike at the One Show. Sad to see the dent. :'(

Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #354 on: February 15, 2012, 02:58:20 PM »
I don't want to talk about it. I literally felt sick to my stomach when they called me from PDX.

It never leaves my sight again.  Ever.  Not pissed at the guys, seems a tiedown failed (cheap Chinese crap ratchet strap).  But now I'm sourcing another tank, have to go back out to paint, pinstripe, etc.
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline Industrial Rat400f Killer

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #355 on: February 15, 2012, 06:35:45 PM »
I don't want to talk about it. I literally felt sick to my stomach when they called me from PDX.

It never leaves my sight again.  Ever.  Not pissed at the guys, seems a tiedown failed (cheap Chinese crap ratchet strap).  But now I'm sourcing another tank, have to go back out to paint, pinstripe, etc.


Wow, you let those guys take it down there? Yep, I'd never do that again.

Offline gnarlycharlie4u

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #356 on: February 22, 2012, 02:20:58 PM »
This build is just about everything I could hope for. Especially the ported head, valve job, and 31mm CR specials

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #357 on: February 22, 2012, 02:38:50 PM »
This build is just about everything I could hope for. Especially the ported head, valve job, and 31mm CR specials

I think Doc is running RS34 Mikuni's now mate, not the CR's...?
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline gnarlycharlie4u

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #358 on: February 22, 2012, 05:47:20 PM »
This build is just about everything I could hope for. Especially the ported head, valve job, and 31mm CR specials

I think Doc is running RS34 Mikuni's now mate, not the CR's...?

He was running CR's in the video.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #359 on: February 22, 2012, 05:49:27 PM »
This build is just about everything I could hope for. Especially the ported head, valve job, and 31mm CR specials

I think Doc is running RS34 Mikuni's now mate, not the CR's...?

He was running CR's in the video.

Sure was but i am pretty sure now he is running the RS mikuni's, far better carb for the street ... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #360 on: February 23, 2012, 07:23:42 AM »
This build is just about everything I could hope for. Especially the ported head, valve job, and 31mm CR specials

I think Doc is running RS34 Mikuni's now mate, not the CR's...?

He was running CR's in the video.

Sure was but i am pretty sure now he is running the RS mikuni's, far better carb for the street ... ;)

You're all winners!  ;D

In the video, I was running CR29's.  They were too small, 81 rwhp in the video.  I upgraded to CR31's and picked up some top end (4+ hp or 5%).  But, unlike the 29's the 31's were a little balky under 3k at part throttle and full throttle roll-ons took a bit more finesse.

About a month ago I finally got the RS's sorted, so now I'm running those.  In about 10-miles of city street testing, the RS's were much more civilized.  The rest of the test will happen Saturday, when I get some dyno time to finish tuning. 
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (done)
« Reply #361 on: February 23, 2012, 01:44:42 PM »
What do we win, what do we win....... ;D ;D 8)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #362 on: February 26, 2012, 08:53:06 AM »
I spent some time on the dyno yesterday with the RS34's.  In short, there's a lot of development needed to get these running right.

First run it made 56hp, down 30hp from my last CR31 run.  No wonder it felt more docile and streetable that it did on the 31's. (headslap)

125 mains were off-the-charts lean (17:1).  Needle was lean as well (was one-clip rich). Accelerator pump limit-screw (long allen in the carb body) backs itself out with the carb top off AND the pump plunger doesn't want to come all the way up after use. (The latter is a common complaint I've seen on the web and it requires a little heavier spring under the plunger.)

Still having issues with cylinder 3 not reading on the sniffer, but the exhaust pipe was a similar temp as all of the others and the plug looks good.  Very much a head scratcher.  The sniffer does read the accelerator pump spray, which worries me that I'm starving that cylinder of fuel at other times.  I've been completely through each carb, but will go through them all again this week.

I raised the needles to the richest position and grabbed a set of 127.5 mains, which was worth 20hp, but I'm still down 10hp and the A/F is all over the map. One step on the main got me to 15:1 at redline, so we're closing in on a main jet size.  If I had to guess, I'd say 132.5 should be on the money.  For goofs, I drilled out a 110 main to .155 with predictable results, 10:1 A/F and 64 hp.

The jet needles the carbs came with, 9DZH5-50's, aren't what's spec'd (9DZH01) but are listed as alternates for the carbs.  I can't find much information on the 5-50's and am not sure how they compare to the 01's overall.   However, with the 5-50's that came on the bike being too lean, and the 01's having a similar starting diameter, I've ordered a set of 9DZH03's to see how that works out.  I've also got 10mm and 30mm velocity stacks coming to add to my 50mm's. Finally, I have 130, 132.5 and 135 mains coming.

Might get a dyno sheet up this afternoon.
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline tweakin

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #363 on: February 26, 2012, 09:03:48 AM »
Dave,  That is really interesting regarding the dyno results, doesn't really add up IMO.  Hope you get it all worked out soon.  Have you thought about taking it to a different tuner/dyno?

Also thanks for being the test pilot on the 34's, I am learning a lot from you trials and tribulations.  I should have mine pretty well sorted by the time I get to the dyno...

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #364 on: February 26, 2012, 09:14:09 AM »
Good post David.
I've gotta get some dyno time to setup my CR26s this spring.

Wanna help?

FJ
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Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #365 on: February 26, 2012, 09:24:55 AM »
Have you thought about taking it to a different tuner/dyno?

I'm the tuner, so any problems are mine and mine alone. Plus, what fun would it be to ship it off to someone else to dial it in?

In any case, the first set of runs is always a bit like stumbling around a dark-room.  Now that I have a sense of what's going on, I feel comfortable I can put up better numbers soon.
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #366 on: February 26, 2012, 09:27:24 AM »
Good post David.
I've gotta get some dyno time to setup my CR26s this spring.

Wanna help?

FJ

I'd be happy to.  CR's are old hat to me at this point and a piece of cake to work on. (Unlike this silly flat-slide stuff.)
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline tweakin

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #367 on: February 26, 2012, 09:34:29 AM »
Great Dave, Keep us posted.
Have you thought about taking it to a different tuner/dyno?

I'm the tuner, so any problems are mine and mine alone. Plus, what fun would it be to ship it off to someone else to dial it in?

In any case, the first set of runs is always a bit like stumbling around a dark-room.  Now that I have a sense of what's going on, I feel comfortable I can put up better numbers soon.

Offline MRieck

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #368 on: February 26, 2012, 12:54:15 PM »
I spent some time on the dyno yesterday with the RS34's.  In short, there's a lot of development needed to get these running right.

First run it made 56hp, down 30hp from my last CR31 run.  No wonder it felt more docile and streetable that it did on the 31's. (headslap)

125 mains were off-the-charts lean (17:1).  Needle was lean as well (was one-clip rich). Accelerator pump limit-screw (long allen in the carb body) backs itself out with the carb top off AND the pump plunger doesn't want to come all the way up after use. (The latter is a common complaint I've seen on the web and it requires a little heavier spring under the plunger.)

Still having issues with cylinder 3 not reading on the sniffer, but the exhaust pipe was a similar temp as all of the others and the plug looks good.  Very much a head scratcher.  The sniffer does read the accelerator pump spray, which worries me that I'm starving that cylinder of fuel at other times.  I've been completely through each carb, but will go through them all again this week.

I raised the needles to the richest position and grabbed a set of 127.5 mains, which was worth 20hp, but I'm still down 10hp and the A/F is all over the map. One step on the main got me to 15:1 at redline, so we're closing in on a main jet size.  If I had to guess, I'd say 132.5 should be on the money.  For goofs, I drilled out a 110 main to .155 with predictable results, 10:1 A/F and 64 hp.

The jet needles the carbs came with, 9DZH5-50's, aren't what's spec'd (9DZH01) but are listed as alternates for the carbs.  I can't find much information on the 5-50's and am not sure how they compare to the 01's overall.   However, with the 5-50's that came on the bike being too lean, and the 01's having a similar starting diameter, I've ordered a set of 9DZH03's to see how that works out.  I've also got 10mm and 30mm velocity stacks coming to add to my 50mm's. Finally, I have 130, 132.5 and 135 mains coming.

Might get a dyno sheet up this afternoon.
Much easier to lose HP than to find it Dave. ;) That engine certainly likes fuel! I'd say the 132.5 will be about right though a needle with more taper might put it at 130. Anyway...you are close. I always find it amazing that one jet size change can yield a 20HP difference....great baseline info that I will be using myself. Thanks Dave
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 12:55:53 PM by MRieck »
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Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #369 on: February 26, 2012, 05:40:27 PM »
....great baseline info that I will be using myself. Thanks Dave

Happy to be everybody's guinea pig.  ;)
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline tweakin

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #370 on: February 26, 2012, 05:54:02 PM »
Somebody has to do it.  Thanks.
....great baseline info that I will be using myself. Thanks Dave

Happy to be everybody's guinea pig.  ;)

Offline gnarlycharlie4u

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #371 on: February 28, 2012, 07:25:33 AM »
Seriously, thank you. I've been considering those carbs since I heard Cycle-x has used them.
Maybe give them a holler and see what they've come up with on their bikes or if they've encountered similar problems.

Good luck!

Offline xrrevin

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #372 on: July 15, 2012, 05:47:03 AM »
In reading the RS34 dyno work thread, there are many of the pics that won't show.  Does anyone know why or what I need to do to view them?  I am signed in.  only about 2 of them load.  Thanks.

Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #373 on: July 15, 2012, 07:27:51 AM »
The ones at the beginning of the thread were on a photo service that went belly-up, and I haven't taken the time to re-do it.  Can you see the pictures on the later pages?
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando

Offline Doctor_D

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Re: 1975 Supersport, performance cafe (RS34 dyno work)
« Reply #374 on: July 15, 2012, 07:33:34 AM »
Test image, this dyno sheet has the RS's and the CR's laid over the top of each other, with the CR's making more power.  I've richened up the needle on the RS's since this time and picked up some power.



Both curves are nice and smooth, which I attribute a lot of to Mike's head-work, the CR replica pipes, a well matched cam, and getting the intake length properly tuned. What I've also learned is that the bike likes to run about 12.5:1 AFR to really make power.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 07:37:21 AM by Doctor_D »
Take care,
David
___________________________________________
1975 CB 750F - Project page: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=66026.msg725479#msg725479
1978 CX500
1971 Norton Commando