Topic: health care bill

[paulages]

Do you know of dying people who sit in hospitals with known illnesses and they are tossed out...

It does not happen. They are treated; Every Hospital has a social worker staff that evaluates the situation and finds a way to take care of the problem. I am sure there is some delay, and I am sure some fall through the cracks, but she would be treated.  Although not at a hospital of her choosing.

Go to a hospital, ask them the question, they will inform you.

my roommate and close friend died at 26 from colon cancer because she could not afford treatment. she worked a just-over minimum wage job supporting herself and her child... do you really think she didn't exhaust every possible option to find funding for treatment? she shat blood for a year, and could find no one to even diagnose her until it was far too late. we all gave everything we had, but were also in our early 20's and working class at best.

her illness was known. she died. your solution?

[edbikerii]

Why not post the article and let people decide for themselves?

Here it is:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/12/amnesty-us-maternal-mortality-rates

Oh, I see.  It is very unflattering to Obama and his healthcare "reform", as well as the UK, and it also acknowledges the US' excellent record of medical advancements.  Now I understand why you chose not to post it, but to "paraphrase" it instead.

Oh, and the fact that Ireland (yes, IRELAND!!!) ranked NUMBER 1 with the BEST maternal mortality rate of any nation, with less than 1/5th as many deaths per childbirth in Ireland as in the UK.  Should the UK reform their system in Ireland's image?

Oddly, you also seem to have missed the article in today's Guardian regarding WHO's lack of credibility, and the danger caused by W.H.O. overstating the Swine Flu risk:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/28/who-public-confidence-flu-pandemic  I guess you only see the articles you want to see when you read the Guardian?  See, I made that point on this very forum, last August, but the Guardian has finally caught up to me:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=55553.msg606239#msg606239

And Bob, is it really OK for Andy to accuse me of "sticking my head in the sand"?  Would it be in-appropriate for me to ask him where his head is stuck?

And no, the US is not 37th in the world in terms of healthcare.  The first time I heard that, I knew it was so absolutely ludicrous that looked it up.

I found that the ranking is by the W.H.O., whose motives and criteria are questionable at best.  Their criteria have nothing to do with life expectancy or cancer cures or infant mortality, but rather are based on "Accessability to healthcare".  That is a totally meaningless, subjective criteria, which exposes their true, socialist, motive.

I was reading the British paper "The Guardian" this morning in fact and there is an article on infant mortality in the US - a women in the US is five times greater than a women in Greece to die  during childbirth (source: Amnesty).

Quote from the article:

"Good maternal care should not be considered a luxury available only to those who can access the best doctors"

Keep sticking your head in the sand Ed and it will be all right  

[seaweb11]

"And Bob, is it really OK for Andy to accuse me of "sticking my head in the sand"?  Would it be in-appropriate for me to ask him where his head is stuck?"

If you have to put your hand up to ask for permission to slag someone, put your hand down. You have already lost the battle

[edbikerii]

Wow, that was intelligent.

[Is that better, Seaweb? ]

"And Bob, is it really OK for Andy to accuse me of "sticking my head in the sand"?  Would it be in-appropriate for me to ask him where his head is stuck?"

If you have to put your hand up to ask for permission to slag someone, put your hand down. You have already lost the battle

[seaweb11]

I just this second, finally got my 2nd ignore.   Just this second.......that was way to easy, you have to leave and do it the next day if you want to be sneaky

[edbikerii]

Why would I want to be sneaky?  Welcome to ignoramusville.

I just this second, finally got my 2nd ignore.   Just this second.......that was way to easy, you have to leave and do it the next day if you want to be sneaky

[w1sa]

...........Oddly, you also seem to have missed the article in today's Guardian regarding WHO's lack of credibility, and the danger caused by W.H.O. overstating the Swine Flu risk:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/28/who-public-confidence-flu-pandemic  I guess you only see the articles you want to see when you read the Guardian?  See, I made that point on this very forum, last August, but the Guardian has finally caught up to me:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=55553.msg606239#msg606239.....................

That article refers equally to the influence of pharmaceutical companies in affecting the WHO risk forcasts on Swine Flu, for the purpose of benefiting themselves by producing and selling vaccines.

So, regardless of the credibility issue, which party involved (do you think) acted in the greater interest of health care..?

Do you also extend this credibility issue over swine flu forcasts, to the WHO data/statistics of known period mortality and health care, and its measures and outcomes...........so that WHO should be considered devoid or lacking sufficient credibility and therefore meaningless when targeting meaningful improvements...?

[BeSeeingYou]

Do you know of dying people who sit in hospitals with known illnesses and they are tossed out...

It does not happen. They are treated; Every Hospital has a social worker staff that evaluates the situation and finds a way to take care of the problem. I am sure there is some delay, and I am sure some fall through the cracks, but she would be treated.  Although not at a hospital of her choosing.

Go to a hospital, ask them the question, they will inform you.

my roommate and close friend died at 26 from colon cancer because she could not afford treatment. she worked a just-over minimum wage job supporting herself and her child... do you really think she didn't exhaust every possible option to find funding for treatment? she shat blood for a year, and could find no one to even diagnose her until it was far too late. we all gave everything we had, but were also in our early 20's and working class at best.

her illness was known. she died. your solution?

Sorry about your friend.
It seems with far to many here the answer is tough sh!t!  Why should I pay anything to help someone else less fortunate?

 How many of these same people had no problem with spending close to a trillion dollars on a ginned up war that has killed 100,000+.  I seem to remember a lot of Conservative/Republicans  cheering on the blood and carnage.  Now if the Democrats want to spend a trillion over ten years to actually help most Americans it's Armageddon.  Who has the problem with morality?

Like Rocking M said earlier if we need the money to pay for this cutting the military budget is the first place to go.  I say 25-30% over the next ten years will more than pay for health care.  With the added benefit of being less likely to get involved in anymore unnecessary "adventures".

In celebration of the passage of the bill and the legislative spanking delivered to the Repubs I had to adopt a new avatar for a few weeks.

[seaweb11]

Did a quick Google search for ignoramusville as it seemed to me a to be a made up word.

Here is what comes up!!!  I'm not kidding.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67329.msg745273#msg745273

click.

[seaweb11]

Did a quick Google search for ignoramusville as it seemed to me a to be a made up word.

Here is what comes up!!!  I'm not kidding.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67329.msg745273#msg745273

click.

Funny seaweb. I couldn't see anything in that link. 

[ev0lve]

Did a quick Google search for ignoramusville as it seemed to me a to be a made up word.

Here is what comes up!!!  I'm not kidding.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67329.msg745273#msg745273

click.

Google's on this site like flies on poop. Sometimes I'll be trying to find/figure something out, post some question that hits the keywords I'm searching for and bang, Google lists my post as top hit 5 minutes later. Kind of impressive and annoying.

Now if Google would just stop trying to do me a favor by parsing my search terms into individual words in whatever order it feels like and including misspellings we could be friends again.

try+bing
"I don't think so"

4th one down
http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=ignoramusville&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[bucky katt]

Wow! We're already at 17 pages here. 
Can we follow this discussion up with a rousing argument over legalizing medical marijuana, then have an encore production where we discuss the merits/flaws of a national health care system that pays for free medical marijuana to the unemployed with glaucoma, etc?

well my thread does discuss medical marijuana  i have so far managed to stay away from the arguments here. there are some very good parts of this Bill and some that i cannot believe were passed. we all will have to work with it and learn to deal with it. i understand both schools of thought on the passage of the healthcare bill, and this is difficult for me to say because i didnt vote democrat this time around but the president HAS done some good and with my medical problems and the fact i may never be able to hold a regular job again, which tears me up right down to the core, i cant say that this healthcare bill is all bad. please, believe me, i'm not trying to be argumentative or piss anyone off, i usually will not discuss politics with people i like (just about everyone here)

 my $.02 worth

[bucky katt]

Now you've gone and done it, Buck.  No one who's stepped foot into this mire has managed to get out and leave it well enough alone.  Look forward to seeing it come up over and over in your unread replies.

 

[syth82]

Did a quick Google search for ignoramusville as it seemed to me a to be a made up word.

Here is what comes up!!!  I'm not kidding.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67329.msg745273#msg745273

click.

Funny seaweb. I couldn't see anything in that link.  

I just died laughing..... Why do we all keep having the same problem? That's like the third time this has come up in a week!

[Duke McDukiedook]

Where is this Ignoramusville? Sounds like a cool place to visit. 

[Markcb750]

Where is this Ignoramusville? Sounds like a cool place to visit.  

There is one in every state, their residents are unaware as to how to put themselves on a map.

[seaweb11]

Where is this Ignoramusville? Sounds like a cool place to visit. 

There is one in every state, their residents, are unaware as to how to put themselves on a map.

What lives under a bridge?

[mlinder]

Where is this Ignoramusville? Sounds like a cool place to visit. 

There is one in every state, their residents, are unaware as to how to put themselves on a map.

What lives under a bridge?

Homeless people?

lol.

[BobbyR]

Seriously, the best part of this whole thread is the shrimp on the treadmill...  

That is, and hopefully this will be the last post on this thread. Say Amen and close the door.

[edbikerii]

Go ahead, Bobby.  Take the last word.  I want you to have it.  Go ahead.

Seriously, the best part of this whole thread is the shrimp on the treadmill...  

That is, and hopefully this will be the last post on this thread. Say Amen and close the door.

[BobbyR]

LAST WORD

[edbikerii]

Well, sorry Bobby, but I think that everyone here has overlooked a major part of the "healthcare reform bill".  

What, exactly, does a government takeover of the entire student loan industry have to do with healthcare reform?

[BobbyR]

OK now I need another last word. The last word is COMPASSION.

[BobbyR]

Well, sorry Bobby, but I think that everyone here has overlooked a major part of the "healthcare reform bill".  

What, exactly, does a government takeover of the entire student loan industry have to do with healthcare reform?

Nothing at all. It is a widely used tactic to tack one bill inside another. Goes on all the time and for less noble reasons.

I paid most my kids College out of my pocket. I wanted him to have some skin in the game, so I made him take out small loans. I was in the loan business until I got am honest job, so i know the tricks. I gotta be honest with you Ed, the Student Loans are predatory. I was appalled at how perverted the student loan system had become. Variable interest rates tied to either LIBOR or Prime with a heavy uplift, and really crappy terms. What they are doing to these kids is criminal.  Overhauling the system is a good thing. They can take the current as written Health Care bill and shred it as far as I am concerned.
The Student Loan reform may be the best part of it.

[BobbyR]

COMPASSION as in letting this ragged tired thread die a peaceful death?

Yes and also people showing some compassion and understanding toward each other. So a new last word:

TOLERANCE