Author Topic: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?  (Read 4185 times)

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Offline nlesniak

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Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« on: June 20, 2010, 08:19:36 PM »
I was doing a chain and sprocket for the first time since I got the bike. I was trying to clean what I thought was a huge build up of grease, but it actually turned out to be grease covered silicon which was covering a crack in the trans case. It looks like the chain was rubbing on it and then it split and broke back(I'll post a pic when I get home)
what should I do to fix this? 

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 09:12:36 PM »
What model bike mate?  ???
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline nlesniak

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 10:34:19 PM »
75 cb750


Offline seaweb11

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 10:51:39 PM »
It sort of looks like this isn't the 1st time the case has been cracked?  Hard to tell, too much of a mess still.
Take off the sprocket and clean it up a bit more. Put up photos again.

They can be welded. I had one of mine done and there was a thread around here recently about another guys fix with his BIG hole ;)

P.S. Was the chain actually rubbing?  That mess is normally associated with a past broken chain smashing into the case on it's way to it's death  :P

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 02:03:33 AM »
Yep, what Derek said. It doesn't look too bad, my F2 cases had a big chunk busted out and the PO epoxied them up, but a chunk of the original alloy that was pushed in was ground out by the primary drive gear, filling the oil with metal shavings which blocked the oilways, which in turn starved the top end of oil and killed the engine.

I didn't have the ability to weld it then, so I split the cases and "cast" a new section using JB weld, but as yours doesn't look too bad (not pushed in too far) you could probably just clean it up and lay some JB weld (wonderful stuff) over the damage, leave it over night and ride away!

If you decided to do it properly (TIG welded) you'd need to strip the engine down to the bare cases first, it just depends on what your preference is, if prepared properly JB weld will last the life of your bike, but if it's gonna be a show quality restoration, race bike or custom, welding is the way to go. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline 754

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 08:05:30 AM »
Just say NO to CraCk.. it can ruin your whole week...
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73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

traveler

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 08:07:24 AM »
clean up...JB weld......sand smooth with fine grit sandpaper, paint silver....continue on!

Someday....someone will come out with a steel countoured plate to protect these cases. :(

~Joe

Offline MCRider

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2010, 08:48:03 AM »
clean up...JB weld......sand smooth with fine grit sandpaper, paint silver....continue on!

Someday....someone will come out with a steel countoured plate to protect these cases. :(

~Joe

As part of the warranty repair, Honda had a horseshoe shaped case protector, as they were stumbling in the dark trying to figure out what was going on. Would be a rare part to find. 

But the problem was poor maintenance to the chain, rust, and/or battery acid on the chain from an improperly routed vent tube. If both of these are addressed, the chains NEVER break. No need for a guard. Many CB750s bikes have much more HP and many more miles than on the bikes that broke chains.

It was mystery theater for many years, but now its just ancient history and bad memories.
Ride Safe:
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline 754

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 09:27:49 AM »
That is true if you use good chains, sprockets in good condition, Preferablly 17 Teeth or more..

 But there will always be people using cheap chain, sprocketstoofargone.. that wont lean the lessons (even if you warn them).. till they feel the pain..

The one in this thread is an easy fix.. V the crack, push back slightly, weld leaving bead over the top .. and then tell them (the welder) not to clean it up. I does/should/can help if you bolt to a plate while welding..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 07:14:27 PM »
Not arguing with Ron's post, but it wasn't just poor maint that caused hundreds of chain breakages. Honda had a real problem with chains back in the 1970's,  the metallurgy simply wasn't up to the power that CB750's were producing, that was why they finally went from a 530 to a massive 630H chain for the CB750F2/3 etc, because the chains of the era just couldn't handle the power.

I've got a mate who bought his shiny blue K2 brand new (and still has it) he never raced it, and was absolutely fastidious regarding maintenance (the bike did well over 100,000 touring/commuting miles without a rebuild) but his chain broke, just the same. Modern, good quality 530 chain can handle 180 BHP plus in bikes like suzuki Hayabusa's, but an OEM CB750 chain is only good for showbikes, and beating your red-headed step son..........  ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 08:29:33 PM »
Not arguing with Ron's post, but it wasn't just poor maint that caused hundreds of chain breakages. Honda had a real problem with chains back in the 1970's,  the metallurgy simply wasn't up to the power that CB750's were producing, that was why they finally went from a 530 to a massive 630H chain for the CB750F2/3 etc, because the chains of the era just couldn't handle the power.

I've got a mate who bought his shiny blue K2 brand new (and still has it) he never raced it, and was absolutely fastidious regarding maintenance (the bike did well over 100,000 touring/commuting miles without a rebuild) but his chain broke, just the same. Modern, good quality 530 chain can handle 180 BHP plus in bikes like suzuki Hayabusa's, but an OEM CB750 chain is only good for showbikes, and beating your red-headed step son..........  ;D
My poor maintenance comment was weak. While that could contribute, there was definitely something else going on. Certainly bikes with impeccable maintenance were breaking chains. You know, I was working at Honda Shops when the CB750 came out. At Burke's Honda in Ft Lauderdale, for the 5 months I was there (irresponsible hippie type) we must have warrantied 25 broken cases. Everybody was freaking out, from the shop owners to the district reps to American Honda. The owners were pissed, but they all liked in a dark sort of way, the argument that it was just too much horsepower for the chains. Maybe, we'll never know for sure. But that doesn't square with all the H1/H2s, and hopped up Sportsters, and drag racers that weren't breaking chains.

Certainly Honda was happy to lean on that as a reason and many of the service bulletins referred to using this chain over that one, converting to rivet links, changing sprockets, on and on. etc. It was so much that in my feeble mind I thought they were grasping at straws. They had to do something.

As a shop flunkie, I was involved in setting up the bikes which included juicing up the batteries and running the vent tubes. On the sidestand, the end of the tube could hang just over the chain, and condensed acid could drip, even a drop would cause a weak spot on the chain. This came out in a Honda Bulletin years later. This story makes much more sense to me.

But as i mention, it was mystery theatre, no one knew for an absolute fact what was going on. Little by little the problem went away. Maybe it was less horsepower and better chains. Maybe it was the quiet supply of a longer battery vent tube.

The service bulletin #98 came out in June 73; "Batt Vent Hose and Drive Chain" was the best kept secret of the time. Unfortunatley I can't get the text, but we've had this discussion before and someone posted it.

So its not a discussion that can be concluded in my mind. I'll accept anyones idea that it was the chains. I can'tprove otherwise. I prefer to lean on the battery hose . AS many bikes of the time had the horspower to break chains if that were the case.

Back to the subject of someone making a guard plate, at this point in time, its not necessary.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 08:50:49 PM »
The battery acid/drive chain issue is for real as warned here: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/motorcycle_battery_maintenance/index.html

"Before reinstalling the battery, check the vent tube. Make certain it's not kinked, pinched or in any way obstructed. Make sure the tube is routed away from the drive chain and that it terminates below the swingarm."

If other big bikes were breaking chains, then I could go for the "poor chain quality" argument. And maybe that is the reason. But my senses lean to the vent tube.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2010, 08:52:26 PM »
Just can't get away from the idea that a steel plate in there isn't good insurance.

~Joe

Offline MCRider

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2010, 08:58:31 PM »
Just can't get away from the idea that a steel plate in there isn't good insurance.

~Joe

Sure couldn't hurt, unless it came loose and the chain grabbed it and tossed it into the car behind you, and...and...and...  ;)  JK
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2010, 08:25:36 PM »
I've got one of the Honda chain deflector thingies in a box somewhere, it was on my K6's engine when I bought it, and had some grooves worn into it too, so it may well have been put to the test.

I say, "in a box" because that bike is now fitted with an RK X Ring chain that looks like it could tow the Queen Mary, with it's rectangular side plates at least 50% thicker than the p1ssy OEM chain that was on it when I bought it.

Regardless of what was really causing the problem at the time, my mate Davey replaced the OEM chain with a Diamond chain and never had another problem, so his assumption at least, was that it was the chain, and nothing else, that was at fault. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

traveler

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 04:35:41 AM »
The chain on my racer is a "Sapphire chain made by Diamond"...so hoping for the same bit of luck. ;)

I need to get one of these factory plates.

Did you decide to just JB weld the area and continue on?

~Joe

Offline nlesniak

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 08:05:47 PM »
I jb welded it, so we'll see how that goes. You guys think that'll be fine? I work with a guy who works on bikes and he keeps telling me horro stories about what is going to happen and I should replace the motor??? Now I know replacing the motor isnt the most effecient solution, but is there potential for hazard going the jb wld route?

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2010, 04:33:25 AM »
No mate, JB Weld is a better friend than your faithful pooch, I'd never heard of it before I became a member here, but since I discovered it, I think it's brilliant. It will seal against hot oil and gas, you can cast it, mold it, drill it, tap it, paint it, just about do any bloody thing with it, it's better than sliced bread, and almost as good as canned beer!

Seriously, it'll be fine mate, give it plenty of time (a couple of days in warm weather) to set up before you ride your bike for the first time, and it'll last the life of your bike. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline mrrch

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2010, 01:18:49 PM »
I found a small crack on my 750 that was caused by a previous gear grenading inside and pushing out the case just slightly (found it when cleaning my cases for paint) Some JB weld and I'm ready for paint.
my build

1977 CB750K WITH 1976 CB750F ENGINE

Offline HedNut

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2010, 02:16:41 PM »
Hey There! Yep...I just fixed a huge hole in mine looks about to be the starting of the same hole!... My PO left the "loose" piece in there and rammed it full of epoxy shat...against the gears...and same thing...I took off the oil pan and she was full of metal chunks/slivers, pieces from the case being ground by the gears.  
 I had mine welded (wasn't the best quality...but back to one piece!)...and had to use a lil' jb weld on the "flange area" to bring the mating surface back to seal.  It's good to go now! Good thing there isn't much (if any) pressure in there when she's running!
 
Check my build for a full write up. (just got it fixed 2 weeks ago) yours AIN'T that bad! ahah  

Like the guys said...if it's not grinding on your gears...a good clean-up n' rough up with some gritty sandpaper or die-grinder...and lay on the JB...(make sure it's not too runny so that it doesn't drip INTO the cases)  I'd mix it and let it set up for a couple minutes before applying (I'm sure it describes that on the JB package)  You'll be good to go!
Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 02:28:06 PM by HedNut »

Offline the-chauffeur

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2010, 01:24:40 PM »

Bit late now, but the case protector you guys mentioned up the thread is part #11353-300-010.

Ohio Cycle has one or two knocking about, and there's a place that shows up periodically on eBay with a couple in stock.

Online CycleRanger

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Re: Uhoh! Found a crack in the trans case, what to do?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2010, 01:58:54 PM »
Here's a picture of one in this thread.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60529.0
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