Topic: Sandcast #97 restoration

[754]

I doubt that they used a standard bolt, take it apart carefully.
 Re cylinder, its an early bike, may have parts that are different, try not to destroy it taking it apart.

 Cylinders could vary a bit, pretty sure there is a tolerance on that top milled part, that could vary a bit from cylibder to cylinder..

[markb]

Good point on the bolt size.  I've got at least a couple more days of soaking and heating before putting a wrench to it.  Taking my time on the cylinders too. 

[754]

 Use a 6 bolt socket when you take bolt out, Soaking may not help, I dont think ot will get in there.

 If you have the small hole crank, please dont try removing rotor with an axle as some suggest, you dont want tpo matk up the ebd of an unobtanium crank.

 In fact once bolt is out you can clean crank, without removing rotor. I took one off a 69 last year that was very stuck..

[SOHC Digger]

Markb:  If you have not seen any of the threads on rust removal, check them out.  I think using the Phosphoric Prep & Etch will work wonders for that engine!  I've been using it a lot lately and I can't believe I lived without it before.

[Roach Carver]

for your stuck bolts; I have had great success with heat and parafin or candle wax. I use a lot of heat and then apply the wax to the threads. penentrating oil just vaporizes when you apply it to a hot bolt but wax actually will follow the heat and seems to go right down the threads. also seems to help prevent gauling (sp?). I have found this technique to be very effective. good luck!

[CrankyOldGuy]

Mark,

I have been following your thread quietly for a while and I have been very impressed with your efforts and patience.  I have also taken the opportunity to go to the SOOC forum to follow your thread there.  It is quite interesting to see their their comments, and how much they like ... ok ... drool ... over your project  .  They sure add another perspective to the CB750 story.  You sure have added excitement to both forums.  Keep up the good work. I will continue to follow both sites for your commentary and pictures.

Harry O.

[tango911]

Unbelievable restore your doing, wish i had the skills. Def going to be watching.

do you need side covers and emblems? I actually have some.

tango

[markb]

Do you have measuring tools to measure the cam? Would like to know the lift & find out once and for all if the early ones have hotter cams.. or is just a myth?

So what do I need to measure it?  A degree wheel, a set of v-blocks on a surface plate, dial indicator?  I assume the rise has to be the same so it must be a difference in where it rises and the dwell, etc.?  Give me some guidance and I will try to measure it.  Of course this assumes its an original cam.  Any markings on it that I could confirm that?
Thanks,
Mark

[markb]

SOHC Digger & Roach Carver,
Interesting ideas.  Anyone else try them?
tango911,
I might be interested in a right side (oil tank) cover.  I've got an early left one.  Can you PM me with a picture and price?  I've got a perfect set of early sidecovers too but they are blue/green and on my other sandcast for now.
Mark

[Toxic]

I am in awe of your determination.  I would have thrown that pig back in the swamp and looked for another motor.

Truely facinating.

[tango911]

I am in awe of your determination.  I would have thrown that pig back in the swamp and looked for another motor.

Truely facinating.

no doubt that thing is a mess. kudos!  and pm sent

[Greggo]

I am in awe of your determination.  I would have thrown that pig back in the swamp and looked for another motor.

Truely facinating.

You would have thrown Sandcast engine #100 back in the swamp and looked for another?  Dude, that frog from the swamp is really a prince underneath. 

[The_Crippler]

I am in awe of your determination.  I would have thrown that pig back in the swamp and looked for another motor.

Truely facinating.

You would have thrown Sandcast engine #100 back in the swamp and looked for another?  Dude, that frog from the swamp is really a prince underneath. 

Yeah...At least sell it for someone else to throw in a swamp! 

Seriously, though...I know a lot of these restore projects come about because at the time, no one knew how important these bikes would become and thusly didn't take care of them.  I really, really hope that these ones that are getting preserved are taken care of well after the project is complete.  Once they're gone, they're gone...I'd hate to see someone start with what's above, get it restored, and then slowly slide back down over the next 30 years.

[754]

 The motor is not so bad, many early bikes start off with MUCH MUCH worse. I get pretty excited when I see parts for early bikes that are far, far worse than that..

 To measure the cam, if you can at least meaure lobe height with calipers, that would give us the lift figures. To measure more , gets involved...

[Old Scrambler]

Mark........just to add some comments.........When the SOOC hosted a display at Mid-Ohio Vintage Days in 2009, Mr. Bob Jamison and Bob Hansen were on hand to discuss the many interesting facits of getting the bikes to the market.  If memory serves me, they suggested that the first few hundred bikes were shipped to American Honda without crates. Apparently the motors were installed in the frame and all (or most) other parts were hand assembled for delivery to the dealers. This rushed effort to get the bikes to the market helps to explain the numerous changes to the earliest bikes - especially the inconsistent fastener finish.

[markb]

The motor is not so bad, many early bikes start off with MUCH MUCH worse. I get pretty excited when I see parts for early bikes that are far, far worse than that..

 To measure the cam, if you can at least meaure lobe height with calipers, that would give us the lift figures. To measure more , gets involved...

I checked out the cam, the lobe height measurement was 1.390".  Does this tell you anything? 

[markb]

I had stuff to do last Saturday so I was only able to work about 4 hours on Sunday.  By the way, that brings me to about 66 hours on this project including the time to drive to Oklahoma and back to pick it up, looking on line for parts, teardown, posts here, everything.  I’ll be interested to see what I have into it when it’s done.  I don’t think I’m going keep track of the money though, it would probably make me quit.  Maybe after I’m done with this project I’ll take up a cheaper hobby like horse racing.

I did get the cylinders off and the pistons come out quite easily after several cycles of heat and soaking with Aerokroil (highly recommended by Steve Swan, it seems to work really well).  The #1 & 4 bores don’t look so good and the #4 piston has some scuff marks on the piston pin sides of it.  I’ll post some pics after I get them cleaned up.  Still weighing my options on what to do with the oversize cylinders and pistons.

I’m having a hell of a time getting the starter motor out.  After a couple of soak and heat cycles I’ve managed to move it about 1/8” but I don’t want to tap on it too hard.  I did get that broken rotor cover screw out.  After more heating and soaking it came out easily with no thread damage.  I also got one stud out before I ran out of time.

Here’s a question for the restoration purists, how do you feel about using the APE heavy duty studs?  I’ve used them on my last two projects because I wanted to do everything I could to make sure I don’t have oil leaks.

Here’s where I’m at.

[Damfino]

Here’s a question for the restoration purists, how do you feel about using the APE heavy duty studs?  I’ve used them on my last two projects because I wanted to do everything I could to make sure I don’t have oil leaks.

Mark, I'd say use them. If it's something that will improve an aspect of the bike without being seen by a concours judge I'm all for it.

[pdxPope]

Mark, I'd say use them. If it's something that will improve an aspect of the bike without being seen by a concours judge I'm all for it.

+1


-JP

[MoMo]

Mark, I am not a purist but I would use what works the best for the least amount of money-as stated no one sees the internal.  Admire your dedication to the project, Larry

[markb]

I don't think the APE studs is the least amount of money but I think it's money well spent.  I also do the modified head gasket and o-rings as described in Honda Service Bulletin #42.

[markb]

I’ve had a couple of comments about the white dot on the top of the upper crankcase.  If you look at the first pic there’s actually another smaller irregular spot near the left, top mount.  Are these marks some kind of factory mark?  Is the irregular one just a mistake?  The round one looks pretty deliberate.  I’ve heard that on earlier sandcasts there was supposedly either a red or blue/green dot to indicate the bike color.  I scratched on it to see if was another color underneath but it’s definitely white all the way through.  Could it have bleached out?


Here’s a close up of the round one.  It looks like paint and it’s fairly thick, I can feel an edge on it.  It looks a little wrinkled too.  Like it was maybe applied with a dauber.  If it is a factory mark I would like to duplicate it.  Anyone have any theories?

[Don R]

Is that the one that indicates main bearing size?

[buzzard750]

Is that the one that indicates main bearing size?

Can you elaborate on that Don R? This one is quite a mytery of at the SOOC site. The theory over there is, Red Dot for Red bikes, Blue Dot for Blue Bikes.

[markb]

Didn’t get anything done over the Thanksgiving weekend except pick up another bike.  I got an early VIN (15xx) that has the shortneck petcock and 2-hole airbox that I’ve been looking for.  The brake lines are better than the ones I have but I don’t know if they’re good enough yet.  So my list is getting shorter but I’m still missing one big item, the smooth oil filter cover.  Anyone have too many laying around and would like to sell one?     And I might use engine parts like the cylinders if I end up needing that.  I still haven’t decided what to do.  Also I haven’t decided what to do with the new bike.  There are a few smaller bits I’m going to use for now and maybe this will end up being my next project and I’ll have to start looking all over again.  Probably won’t be able to make it as correct as I’m trying to make 97 but for sure I’m going to keep the cases and the frame together.