Author Topic: Swing Arm bushings  (Read 6869 times)

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Offline clarkjh

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Swing Arm bushings
« on: March 27, 2006, 01:58:13 PM »
I'm looking to make a custom set of swing arm bushings, just woundering what to use.  Brass, Bronse, Babbit?  I have to turn the main spindle down a mm because of the ware.  PO hadn't greased it.

Thanks

James
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Offline bistromath

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 02:07:08 PM »
Bronze. There seem to be arguments between a good, hard phosphor bronze and oil-impregnated bronze. Seems like most of the commercial swingarm bushings use the oil-impregnated stuff. SAE 841 is a good one to try.
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NickBee

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2006, 01:05:14 PM »
Hey guys!  I’m working on a CB750 café racer.  I’m wondering if these would be good to pick up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CB750-CB550-CBX-CB400-CB360-SWING-ARM-BUSHINGS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35592QQitemZ4629633458QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

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Offline Bodi

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2006, 01:13:06 PM »
Check the price from a dealer, these should be available. I see many ebay sales at ridiculous prices for stuff that you can get at the Honda dealer (genuine parts) or through accessory catalogues - stuff like those bushings.

Offline cbjunkie

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2006, 01:14:49 PM »
or here...

scroll down, they're midway down or so...

http://www.m3racing.com/products/parts.html
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NickBee

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 01:18:05 PM »
ok,, I thought these were an upgrade from OEM??

Thanks for the info guys!

Offline cbjunkie

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 01:36:13 PM »
bronze bushing ARE an upgrade...who said otherwise  ???

search for Hondaman on this site - SteveD (mod) has a whole special section of stuff Hondaman has said - one particular thread is his recommendations for upgrading the ride of your 750 - it's a laundry list of easy-to-do stuff - check it out.

junkie out...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 01:51:08 PM by cbjunkie »
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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 01:45:15 PM »
ok from Bodi's reply I those these might just be OEM parts..

good stuff!  thanks!

Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 03:13:39 PM »
FWIW, I just picked up the spares I need for my CB350 rebuild. The original swing arm bushings were plastic. I just ordered the parts according to the original part number manual. The dealer ordered the superseded numbers when there was one. The swing arm bushings I got are made of metal.

Oil seals, gaskets, gudgeon pins, cam chain tensioner... Everything under 500 euros. Definitely, it's cheaper to rebuild an engine than to source body parts.

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Offline nteek754

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2006, 07:48:34 PM »
Hey all  I know where they are on the bike (73 750K)  wondering where can I find some new ones even might put the needle bearing ones in If they dont break me
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Offline Noel

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2006, 08:46:08 PM »
Rumor has it that the bronze bushings from M3 racing are the sh!t.

Try http://www.m3racing.com/products/parts.html and scroll down about a third of the page.

If you try them, let us know how they worked for you. I've been curious about them for a while but they're pretty far down my "to do" list.
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Offline STLrocker

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2006, 12:12:12 PM »
got some from m3. they are in the swingarm, but the swingarm is not on the bike yet, so i cant say how it rides. the shipping was fast though, and they fit well so far.

Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2006, 02:29:25 PM »
I've recently bough new ones for my CB350. Honda replaced the old plastic ones for new metallic ones. I wonder if the bushings for the bigger models have been upgraded, but I guess so. 9 euros each, I guess it's even cheaper to get originals.

Raul

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2006, 05:38:36 PM »
Go bronze, not needle. The needles have much less surface area and don't resist flexing as well as bronze.
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Offline Noel

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2006, 08:10:52 PM »
Quote
got some from m3. they are in the swingarm, but the swingarm is not on the bike yet, so i cant say how it rides. the shipping was fast though, and they fit well so far.
  Seriously, let me know how they work. I'm very interested.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2006, 09:10:13 PM »
Oil-impregnated bronze, the best way to go. They last over 50,000 miles, too. Just wore out my second set at 109,000 miles. It makes an immediately-noticeable handling difference, and can handle loads up to 650 lbs on the 330-pound rating without fractures or flex.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline Tim.

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2006, 06:41:11 AM »
Oil impregnated bronze?  Where does one find such exotic parts?

I picked up a set of bronze bushings a while back on eBay, along with a NOS spindle (not the bolt - the sleeve).  I'm waiting for my BOGE shocks to arrive, and then I'll drop the wheel/swingarm off to install everything and my new sprockets and chain.  Can't wait!  I've been holding on to these bushings for over a year waiting to do everything at once, and finally I have all the parts together.

Put new Progressive springs in the front end also - amazing difference in handling.  Can't wait to have the whole package together.
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Offline clarkjh

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2006, 06:53:26 AM »
Honda has them for about $50/$60 CAD, I need to replace mine and the collar plus the other little bits for about $160 CAD for all the parts from Honda.

James
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memphis3724

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2007, 03:38:55 PM »
Hi everyone.  Can someone tell me how to remove the rubber bushings from my swingarm?  I wacked at it for a bit but I'm starting to wonder if they even come off. (See number 4 from the parts list.)  Thanks in advance.

Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2007, 04:36:57 PM »
Which bike? If they are made of plastic, I took mine of with a pair of vise-grips.


Raul

memphis3724

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2007, 05:04:12 PM »
Sorry.  I have 550F.  I tried a cocket the same size as the bushing and wacked on it for a while.

Offline eurban

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2007, 06:52:45 PM »
Sounds like you are speaking of the rear bushings on the swing arm for the shock absorber clevis rather than the front ones for the swingarm to frame mount?  The rear bushings are press fit but can bear difficult to remove.  If you are repainting your swingarm you can try heating the area around the bushings prior to pressing out.  You can also remove the inner portion of the bushing with a knife (or heat) leaving just the outer ring.  You can then carefully cut through the ring with hack saw blade.  Obviously you don't want to cut into the swingarm's bushing mount.  Grease em up before you push in the new bushings and make sure you get them going in straight.

Offline bgfootball67

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2007, 07:06:20 PM »
If it is the bushing for the rear shock bottom mount, I tried to beat it out with a hammer and a large punch.  I tried heating it excessively, with the middle falling out.  Then with the suggestion from Greg at OCR, we used a hand held hack saw and cut through them then used a punch and hammer to knock them out.  Pain in the rear but they are out!
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2007, 11:34:14 PM »
Wait! If you are talking about the rear bushings, then it's a whole different story. I was unable to remove them from my CB350. I tried a socket, a tube, a large bolt, a big vice, no way. Unfortunately, I had already bought the new ones that will go to the cellar, unused. The old ones were not that bad so I left them alone.


Raul

memphis3724

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2007, 03:03:15 AM »
Thanks guys.  That sounds extreme but I believe that's the only way.  Cheers.

memphis3724

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2007, 06:30:10 PM »
Hi again.  The bushings are out.  I didn't have a tourch so I used a large titanium drill bit to remove the centre peice (chewed it out) and then tried the socket and hammer again.  The both came out quite easy.  Thanks guys.

scrapvalue

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2008, 05:40:14 PM »
Just wondering if anyone knows the best,(cheapest), place to buy a set of swing arm bushings for my 71 CB750?


Thanks

Offline bryanj

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2008, 06:15:57 PM »
Honda, but be advised that the collar is usually more worn than the bushes and that is definately Honda only and expensive
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2008, 06:31:12 PM »
Honda, but be advised that the collar is usually more worn than the bushes and that is definately Honda only and expensive

Or, you could send it to HondaMan for a rebuild...
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scrapvalue

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2008, 06:50:13 PM »
Actually, there is very little play in the swing arm. When placed on the center stand and you put pressure on the wheel from side to side there is just a little bit of movement.
I put my brothers 650 yamaha on it's center stand and it has about the same amount of movement or maybe just a little bit more. Is this normal?
Suppossably his bushings were replaced just before he bought it.
Could somebody check theirs and let me know what they find?
I know it has more miles left in them, but I will be putting new tires on it soon and if it needs bushings, then this would be the time to do it.

Thanks

Offline eurban

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2008, 07:13:32 PM »
You really should feel no side to side play at all.  Bronze bushings are probably better than stock options but as mentioned the collar can be the issue.

Offline jevfro

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2008, 07:52:30 PM »
you might look at hondaman's post, right here...damn(search is down right now)
I've seen the bronze ones on cyclerecycle2, partsnmore, and z1has something too, I think.
It seems most need a lil' more than just bushings in the long run.  Honda man services them by machining new bushings and cleaning up the tolerances on the collar too..IIRC

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2009, 08:40:39 AM »
I offer the full rebuild service on these swingarms (all vintage Honda arms) now. It consists of custom-fitted 841 Oilite Bronze bushings, made on my lathe, and custom-aligned bore centers to match the collar (or new collar) to those bushings after installation. A full rebuild gets the Lifetime Warranty, a partial rebuild gets a 50,000 mile warranty. These warranties are for 100% replacement, if anything goes wrong with my work, or if it wears out in that time. You just have to grease it on schedule. The Oilite will forgive you if you are a little late, like on a long touring ride, and won't damage anything.

I started doing this in late 2006 because Honda has changed their replacement parts to inferior parts, for whatever reason. Their bushings are now made of pressed steel, and since the collars are hardened steel, this wears very quickly: most arms I get for rebuild have these parts inside and have worn or rusted to lockup in 5000 miles or so. It is simply not possible to lubricate steel-on-steel: any lubrication manual will tell you so.  :-\

The collar for the "F" arms and CB750K5-later arms is not available from Honda anymore, but the older style collar is: I am also beginning to make collars in case Honda stops theirs. I 'convert' these "F" and late K arms to the earlier design during rebuild, which includes the original grease seals that worked and end cap spacers (Honda calls these a "bush" now) that accurately center the arm in the frame. I am just now beginning to make bronze versions of these end caps, too, for the more performance-oriented rider.

I highly recommend the installation of the earlier style swingarm bolt, which has grease zerks on both ends, with American zerks installed (I do those, too). This will ensure perfect lube action in 5 minutes total time, from the sides of the bike, instead of by standing on your head under the swingarm to get at the center fitting. This bolt is required (at this time) for the Lifetime Warranty because the center-zerk arrangement does a poor job of delivering any lube to the ends of the collar. The center-zerk can work, if you use the RIGHT grease and lube it exactly the RIGHT way, but it can take 30 minutes to do this task, so few do. Without this older style bolt, the warranty must be 50,000 miles on the "F" and later K arms.

I can also replace those shock bushings: they go out toward the inside of the arm, in from the inside, too. The holes in the arm are tapered .0012" from the factory. Use a pair of 3/8" drive sockets, one large, one small to fit the OD of the old bushing. Install a 5/16" grade 8 bolt and lots of washers and pull the old ones out, press the new ones in. Use lots of penetrating oil on the way out, grease on the way in.  ;)

I don't make and sell just bushings, because the tube on the swingarms is usually oval and/or flared toward the outside from years of riding stresses, so the bushings must be tapered or oval to match on the OD. This is what generates the need for the final bore alignment procedure I use to make a perfect fit. It is simple for a manufacturer to make a bronze bushing with an oversized center hole so the collar will still fit after such a tortured installation, but it will leave side-to-side motion at the rear axle even after all your hard installation work, or within 1000 miles thereafter. You won't find that with my rebuilds, guaranteed.  :)

A few $$ from the work goes back to SOHC4.net for support. If you'd like more info, contact me at my e-mail: mgparis@concentric.net .
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Offline clarkjh

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2009, 06:28:20 PM »
WOW, a thread I started in 2006 is back from the dead. ;D

James

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Offline themotoworks

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2009, 07:03:44 PM »
haha, funny this topic comes up now. I'm building a chromoly swingarm for a 400f, I'm keeping the stock steel shaft, and machined some crs pieces that go from the shaft to the 2" pipe I'm using as the pivot, I thought crs would be okay with a .005 clearance and grease, but now it sounds like i might want to have a separate bronze bushing between them?  Hondaman sounds like he knows his goodies, any tips??
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ev0lution7

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2009, 08:27:27 PM »
i can recomend hondaman's swing arm... my old cb750 handled like a PIG ON STILTS :( my new one with hondamans swing arm handle's great i love his work and his price was reasonable!

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2009, 12:19:59 AM »
Rob at Voxonda also makes bronze bushings:
http://www.voxonda.com/index.php?page=shop
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Offline Alan F.

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2009, 06:23:33 AM »
i can recomend hondaman's swing arm... my old cb750 handled like a PIG ON STILTS :( my new one with hondamans swing arm handle's great i love his work and his price was reasonable!

Reasonable for sure, but honestly being the cheap bastard that I am... it's the highest dollar part on my bike.  (two way shipping and a new collar included)
I'm sure I'll recommend it to everyone once I've ridden with it.
-A

Offline themotoworks

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Re: Swing Arm bushings
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2009, 04:01:24 AM »
Go bronze, not needle. The needles have much less surface area and don't resist flexing as well as bronze.

cool, i searched around town for bearing bronze with no luck, so I ordered on line and will get my matl tuesday, I'll have to put up some pics when i get it done.  i was looking at a friends dresda arm and i think mine will be a lot better
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