Author Topic: WTF!!?? HELP!! (Read 13098 times)

brycegp · « **on:** October 12, 2011, 07:53:38 PM »

So the crappiest part of this story is that I am selling my bike and it was DEATH BY DEMO!!!

How is it that this happens so frequently...you demo your bike to someone and something catastrophic happens...UGH!!!

So I started up the bike for this guy and he was loving the bike. Then I turned it off...and then minutes later went to demo the kick start and it start right up as always. And THEN with in about 5 seconds it became labored as if not getting fuel...and stopped running. I went to kick start it again...and it was LOCKED UP. The kicker wouldn't budge. Then I went to start it with the electric as I've done a thousand times. And I can feel the starter motor try to turn but doesn't.

I've tried putting it in a high gear and push it to turn the motor. But it just drags the rear wheel. I even tried to turn the wheel backwards and still doesn't budge.

Please tell me its something simple....but I am fearing the worst.

HOW COULD AN ENGINE JUST CEASE LIKE THAT???

crazypj · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:02:42 PM »

You do have oil in it?
Sounds like something seized?
What have you done to motor, carbs, etc?

Greggo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:06:33 PM »

This sucks. Hope it's not oil starvation, and just some kind of vapor lock er something.

brycegp · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:10:20 PM »

Quote from: crazypj on October 12, 2011, 08:02:42 PM

You do have oil in it?
Sounds like something seized?
What have you done to motor, carbs, etc?

I immediately checked the oil and while it was low, there was oil on the last 1/8" of the dip stick.

I haven't done anything to the motor...had the carbs worked on a few weeks ago....but that's about it.

brycegp · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:11:15 PM »

Quote from: Greggo on October 12, 2011, 08:06:33 PM

This sucks. Hope it's not oil starvation, and just some kind of vapor lock er something.

1. How would I know if its oil starvation?
2. How would I know if its vapor lock?

Gpreciado · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:22:08 PM »

Pull the plugs and try to crank it over. I had this happen to a big block chevy I was working on. I pulled the carb, plugs,and then cranked it and it turned. The carb was junk and had caused vapor lock. It was the same story started it then turned it off and then the owner took it and it died about ten feet away.

lone*X · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:41:52 PM »

If the kick starter will not turn it over you can forget vapor lock. Vapor lock is heated gasoline in the lines that cause a bubble of vapor, therefore starvation of liquid fuel to the carbs. Common in older carburated cars but it has nothing to do with locking an engine up where it will not turn over. Vapor lock will not freeze the pistons in the cylinders. Pull the plugs and soak the cylinders with thined oil or a good penetrant. Really sound like you ran it dry. Got any visable oil leaks?

brycegp · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:51:19 PM »

So i'll get some penetrating oil and saturate the cylinders. let it sit over night? how long?

If it does unlock...how do I know I didn't lose the oil pump and it'll just do it again?

lone*X · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:06:08 PM »

Over night should penetrate to the rings no problem. It may still be stuck but this is the common method for freeing up an engine stuck from sitting for a long time.

As for knowing if you have oiling issues, after you get it free, change the oil and fill it properly. Cranking it over with the electric starter and with the kill switch off you should see the oil light go out if you have pressure. If the oil light is not working you need to fix it or install a gauge. Also pull the valve caps off and see if you are getting oil to the top end. If the valves are dry you may indeed have a pump issue.

hummbug · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:18:19 PM »

At the risk of flogging a dead horse - maybe have a look at the links below. If it's a 500, could be the gearbox.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=69328.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74892.0

brycegp · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:31:48 PM »

Quote from: hummbug on October 12, 2011, 09:18:19 PM

At the risk of flogging a dead horse - maybe have a look at the links below. If it's a 500, could be the gearbox.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=69328.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74892.0

it was in neutral when it happened... I wasn't riding it...just starting it and showing it.

brycegp · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:33:08 PM »

Quote from: lone*X on October 12, 2011, 09:06:08 PM

Over night should penetrate to the rings no problem. It may still be stuck but this is the common method for freeing up an engine stuck from sitting for a long time.

As for knowing if you have oiling issues, after you get it free, change the oil and fill it properly. Cranking it over with the electric starter and with the kill switch off you should see the oil light go out if you have pressure. If the oil light is not working you need to fix it or install a gauge. Also pull the valve caps off and see if you are getting oil to the top end. If the valves are dry you may indeed have a pump issue.

I have an oil gauge installed. If I get it free, I'll be sure to watch the pressure when I get it started again.

scunny · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:33:51 PM »

when was the cam chain last adjusted. my bet is piston to valve love.

CBK7CHOP · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:54:36 AM »

Might be an idea to take off rocker cover and have a look. To me it sounds like cam chain???

brycegp · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:59:21 AM »

Quote from: scunny on October 12, 2011, 09:33:51 PM

when was the cam chain last adjusted. my bet is piston to valve love.

Since I've owned the bike, I've had to touch about every area of the bike except the motor. So this is uncharted territory for me. And to my knowledge the cam chain hasn't been adjusted since I'v owned it.

So, how would I know if a piston is hitting an open valve? And is it fixable?

And then of course if it IS fixable, I have to learn how to make said adjustments...

Greggo · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:01:46 AM »

Quote from: crazypj on October 13, 2011, 08:50:58 AM

Everything is fixable, just needs money or skill (or both)
You were going to sell a bike without checking the oil first?

I really can't be sympathetic
Sorry, if you were tring to help someone out and it happened I would be
If you were trying to make a quick buck....................................
Woe is you, karma is a #$%*

Does selling one's bike now translate to trying to make a 'quick buck'?

scottly · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:13:14 AM »

Will the motor turn with the spark-plugs removed? You may have had a hydro-static lock, where a cylinder filled up with gas.

lone*X · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:34:31 AM »

If you get the motor to turn over, don't just start it up. Leave the plugs out(no compression to overcome), make sure it is full of clean oil, engage the kill switch and crank it over with the electric start until you get an indication of pressure, either the idiot light or gauge, and you are getting oil to the top end. Only then would I put the plugs back in and put the kill switch back in the run position. No sense in heating it up and adding to the damage if the pump isn't working.

KRONUS0100 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:12:17 AM »

agree with everyone above.but if kicker isnt moving....could be in the clutch.try pulling in the clutch to se if kicker will move.

brycegp · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2011, 11:09:28 AM »

Quote from: crazypj on October 13, 2011, 08:50:58 AM

Everything is fixable, just needs money or skill (or both)
You were going to sell a bike without checking the oil first?

I really can't be sympathetic
Sorry, if you were tring to help someone out and it happened I would be
If you were trying to make a quick buck....................................
Woe is you, karma is a #$%*

I never asked for your sympathy. But judging from the quality of writing in your post, I gotta say you might fake it...but not very good. Because...you know nothing of the situation and coming down on me like that knowing nothing is just rude.

The guy showed up on my door step unannounced...and the bike hadn't been ridden in over a week. So..NO...the oil hadn't been checked in ONE WEEK.

Making a quick buck...

You're an #$%*...and a pessimist to even go there!! That doesn't even make sense in the context of the story. My wife is pregnant and I'm selling off some stuff to make room around here. Not to mention free up my mental space to think about more important things.

Besides...I am selling a bike that has been very reliable and cared for diligently in the 3 years I've owned it. So the oil was a little low...big effing deal. I have a case in the garage and and just hadn't topped it off....cuz the guy took me buy surprise.

Thanks to everyone else with helpful insight...

brycegp · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2011, 11:14:16 AM »

1. The kicker will move freely if I pull in the clutch. It just won't kick over the motor.
2. I pulled the plugs and no change.
3. I put penetrating oil in the cylinders and letting that sit now.
4. I pulled off the tappets covers and the valves have lub and not dry.

If the motor doesn't free up after sitting the day, I'll start checking the cam chain. OR should I just do that while I am waiting?

EDIT:
In first gear with clutch PULLED IN, the wheel will not turn.

KRONUS0100 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2011, 11:55:42 AM »

will the trans change gears? if so, can you get it into 5th and try rolling the motor over that way? ( may need asssistance)
i am still inclined to think mebbe clutch, but could be primary chains possibly. .......but that would have had to catastrophic. My original motor in my 76F everyone kept telling me it was cam chain noise. I kept adjusting and readjusting.............so I finally had enuff.took it out and ran it for about 30 miles hard so it was good and warm. brought it home, put on centerstand in neutral and adjusted it while it was idling. ...................................it got quiet as a sewing machine for about a minute.then BAM!!!!!!
threw both primary chains.while it was idling on the centerstand. It never was a camchain issue to start with.
soooooooooooooo................yours would 1 had to have been really hot to stick a piston 2 would have to have been really low on oil to stick a piston.......or 3 had to have had really low oil pressure.................which again would have had to have been hot to stuck a piston

lone*X · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2011, 12:03:33 PM »

Lets not think catastrophic yet. From Bryce's frist post: "Then I turned it off...and then minutes later went to demo the kick start and it start right up as always. And THEN with in about 5 seconds it became labored as if not getting fuel...and stopped running. I went to kick start it again...and it was LOCKED UP. "

Sounds like this is describing a siezing of the pistons to cylinder walls. Catastrophic would have probably been very abrupt. Give the cylinder soak another day then try a rolling bump with the bike in gear.

brycegp · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2011, 12:18:12 PM »

Quote from: lone*X on October 13, 2011, 12:03:33 PM

Lets not think catastrophic yet.

I like your style...

WarwickE36 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2011, 12:27:46 PM »

That sucks man, don't listen to Crazy P.J.... He's a prick.

Selling your bike doesn't make you an #$%*. If you knew it was #$%*ed up and tried to hide it that's a different story, but that isn't the vibe I get from your post.

Definitely scope out the cam / chain situation and make sure the chain didn't possibly break. not knowing the history of your engine its hard to say, but maybe someone installed a linked cam chain and it came apart?

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Author Topic: WTF!!?? HELP!! (Read 13098 times)