Topic: Lost & Lovin it! 1979 Honda CB650 - First Bike. First Build.

[juan_carlito]

Whats up everyone! My name is Juan I am new to . . . well to all of this. New to motorcycles, new to mechanics in general, new to the site and new to the whole motorcycle community and culture that surrounds it. And, in short . . . I LOVE it!


I decided I would start a thread on here to document my first ever motorcycle project. Now I have all ready started and didn't take pictures of everything but I will try and post what I have and be more diligent from now on lol. I also have a youtube channel where I stated making videos on the build and plan to continue with that, so for those interested its www.youtube.com/JuanCarlitoOnline

I called the thread "Lost & Lovin' it!' quite simply because most days I have no clue what I am doing or how something is going to turn out and I love it. Each time I work on my bike its like a little adventure. An adventure filled with horribly foul language and random wrenches and other tools flying through the air and an empty beer can or two for good measure. . . To fill you in on the back story a little bit, last year I purchased my first ever motorcycle. I have always liked bikes and have wanted one for years, but, never for whatever reason got one. Now last year I posted online through a local classifieds that I was looking for a "project bike�year,make,model don't matter to me.Just want something to teach myself the ins and outs of motorcycles�." Well as you can imagine the response I got was something along the lines of, "I have a bike that will work for you. 1979 Honda CB650�.was running before�hasn't run for awhile now�all the parts are there � second bike for parts included $300" SOLD! Perhaps I should have looked more closely and did some more research as the "parts bike" was a 1980 Cb650 which as time will tell means most parts I'd need were not compatible between years anyway. Not to mention the 79 CB650 seems hard as f**k to find parts for, especially locally. But oh well. I wanted a project right lol
Now as well as being my first motorcycle it is also my first real mechanical undertaking. Never really worked on cars or bikes before. So I apologize in advance if I ever ask you a completely bizarre question. With that being said, after bringing home my new bike and staring at it for about a week I was ready to get started! BUT first . . . lets pack up the family and move. Long story short my family and I moved to a new town for work and the bike got put aside while we settled in and got ourselves organized. A few months ago I finally got started.

First problem I found after watching youtube videos, reading forums and searching on google to determine what I was even looking for . . . a dead battery? Seriously? All that work to find the battery was dead? OK . . . battery charged . . . and the bike turns over! Doesn't run, but she tries! "Maybe this isn't so bad after all" . . . next problem I found . . . bad spark plugs. Replaced all for and tadah! She fired up. Ran like sh*t but fired up. Off to a good start. Next determined that fuel was old so replaced that only to discover the carbs were filthy and poorly adjusted. Did some more research, gave em a quick cleaning, re set the idle screws to factory stock settings, put it all back together and fired it up. Runs ok but needs work. . . But lets do something for the "looks" first . . . easy project for the day?? Strip the paint off the tank so it's bare metal and remove extra bits off the bike. Front fairing, side covers, seat rack�and�.cut the exhaust off. Hmmm, looking better, but the handle bars aren't doing it for me. So I order a new set online, as well as a set of forward controls�waited�.once they arrived I installed everything. Also decided I wanted to run pod filters so I removed the stock air box etc. All right, she looks a bit better but still runs like crap. Lets get back to work . . . .

And thats pretty much where we are now. I have removed the carbs off the bike again as well as picked up a second pair to rob parts from and have a spare. Slight problem there though. My carbs are Keihin PD50A style carbs and the spare set I got was a PD50B style�my bad. For the most part they look pretty much the same. BUT, from the limited answers I have found online, it seems the PD50B style have a slightly different slide/needle set up?? Anyone know about this? I ask because they are in better shape than my 50A set so was wondering about swapping the slide and needle sets from the 50B's into the 50A's�is this doable? Also my set of PD50A have a stripped out hole for one the the float goal screws on the #3 body so the goal doesn't seal all that great�.could I use the #3 body from the 50B set if I use all the jets,floats,etc from the 50A set to keep things the same across all four bodies? I know with the cut off exhaust and pod filters I will have to re jet anyway but perhaps the different slide/needle sets will help with the tuning?
Also in regards to these carbs�they have the haircut off valves in them. Or will. My PD50A set had silicone plugging the holes for the valves when I got it but I have cleaned them all out now and stole the valves from the 50B set. BUT they seem to fit much looser in the 50B set than the A set�why is this and how tight should they fit? maybe theres still some silicone residue? I don't know. When I look online for replacement valves I can only find one style/part number claiming to fit PD50A/B carbs so I assume they are the same for each . . .
As for re-jetting . . . I am in central BC Canada near Prince George . . . for those that don't know that puts me somewhere in the range of 1800-1900 feet above sea level . . . from what I can tell . . . with the stock jets being 90main and 35slow . . . If I run pods and cut off exhaust (small aftermarket baffles) I should be running 115-120mains and 38-40slow . . . my plan is to get 118mains and 38slow and hope the new slides/needle settings stolen from the PD50B carbs help out making everything run like a finely tuned beast! . . . Thoughts? Am I way off? What a noob hey lol.

Other than that . . . I have some shorter suspension,the pods,new carb boots, a master cylinder rebuild kit,and some mini gauges coming in the mail right now so I will update as I tackle those projects. Now assuming I figure out how to post images . . . below this text should be some images of when I got the bike until now . . . if not . . . well come back later and check em out when I know more lol . . . . After all . . . . you read this far all ready

Stock Bike






Stripped off some extras


Had to test ride her


Then this happened to the exhaust�.sorry stock lovers




Stripped the tank down�paint now or clear coat�or�.




Through on some forward controls from TC Bros Choppers


And also some handle bars




Like I said I'll be more diligent with the photos as I go now. Thank you for checking out my build. Look forward to talking with as many of you as possible and sharing my build with you all! Hopefully one day I can meet some of you and RIDE!

[juan_carlito]

New parts & wiring questions


Well my order from Dime City Cycles came in (mini speedo & tach, shorty 11" shocks, pod filters, carb boots, headlight, taillight, turn signals, mini mirrors) . . . but because its an order from the states and I am in Canada I have to pay the ridiculous brokerage fee as well as the British Columbia PST. Rad . . .
 So before I go hand over my hard earned money to the man, a couple quick questions.
1- If I have to replace some top end gaskets to fix a leak should I remove the whole engine or can I just do it on the bike? As far as I can tell the bottom end is "fine" �
2- In regards to wiring . . . does anyone have any tips for a complete noob as to how to figure out what wire should go where when the bike was partially disassembled when I got it so I don't know what the lose wires are for? I have been trying to look at the wiring diagram but as a first timer I'm not 100% sure what I am looking at lol
 Also if I was going to do a custom wire job and ditch things that aren't needed . . .  what are the bare essentials needed for the motorcycle to operate so I can have a baseline to then add accessories (lights,horn,etc)
 Figure I'll tackle the engine rebuild and get the wiring ready for the new accessories before picking up the parts . . . aka wait for payday

Thanks in advance to those reading/following along. Please feel free to share the thread link with others.

[calj737]

To make your bike run in the street, you need power from the battery to the ignition/coils. You need wiring from the alternator to the regulator then to the battery to recharge the battery. This should be run through a fuse panel for protection.

You need power to the headlight, tailight, and the rear brake light. Those are bare minimums for things to work.

Are you planning to keep the stock electrical components or replace with aftermarket pieces?
Yon say there are "loose wires" currently, can you indicate their color and location where you find them?
Can you indicate what lighting, horn etc currently work with the existing wiring?

I'm attaching a color-coded diagram for your reference in case you're not using one.

[juan_carlito]

To make your bike run in the street, you need power from the battery to the ignition/coils. You need wiring from the alternator to the regulator then to the battery to recharge the battery. This should be run through a fuse panel for protection.

You need power to the headlight, tailight, and the rear brake light. Those are bare minimums for things to work.

Are you planning to keep the stock electrical components or replace with aftermarket pieces?
Yon say there are "loose wires" currently, can you indicate their color and location where you find them?
Can you indicate what lighting, horn etc currently work with the existing wiring?

I'm attaching a color-coded diagram for your reference in case you're not using one.

I have both the haynes manual and shop manual for my bike so I have the diagrams all ready but thank you. When I look at them its like reading chinese anyway lol. But with a list of the basics like what you just did I can try and follow the wires and start marking what is what. And by loose wires I mean when I got the bike a lot of stuff had all read been stripped off of her etc�So I can't simply unhook a blinker for example and then know that those wires are for said blinker�almost all the wires that would have been attached to something at the front of the bike are just loose ends as the stock lighting was removed�so if I have a starting point I can start at the battery and follow wires from there I guess. But this would mean stripping all the harness to see individual wires?? I'll take a more clear photo of the "rats nest" that is my wiring tomorrow and maybe someone can point things out.
 As someone with no experience I can say when I look at the bike and the simple fact she runs I am pretty proud of myself�.but every time I go out to the shop and look at a wiring diagram and the wires I feel overwhelmed and end up walking away. Guess I'm worried I'll mess something up and won't be able to figure out what I did lol

[calj737]

Well, actually, it's pretty darn easy because it's the actual wiring from the factory is color coded just like the diagram.

Most people get overwhelmed by the rats nest in the head light bucket. But every wire there is very easy to trace, if you start at the "fixture" and come backwards.

For instance, on your left hand control, the right turn signal wire coming from the control is LIGHT BLUE. That same color should be coming from the right turn element, with a GREEN for a ground.

Understand looking at the diagram, the black rectangular "blocks" that the wires run thru are generally connectors. They can billet style, white plastic blocks, or whatever. Tracing a stock diagram and stock harness is very easy if you take it fixture by fixture. Where it gets wicked hairy is when the PO has done their dirty work and hacked it all up and changed colors.

Honda stock color for GROUND is GREEN. This is the easiest way to begin.q

[juan_carlito]

Well, actually, it's pretty darn easy because it's the actual wiring from the factory is color coded just like the diagram.

Most people get overwhelmed by the rats nest in the head light bucket. But every wire there is very easy to trace, if you start at the "fixture" and come backwards.

For instance, on your left hand control, the right turn signal wire coming from the control is LIGHT BLUE. That same color should be coming from the right turn element, with a GREEN for a ground.

Understand looking at the diagram, the black rectangular "blocks" that the wires run thru are generally connectors. They can billet style, white plastic blocks, or whatever. Tracing a stock diagram and stock harness is very easy if you take it fixture by fixture. Where it gets wicked hairy is when the PO has done their dirty work and hacked it all up and changed colors.

Honda stock color for GROUND is GREEN. This is the easiest way to begin.q

Awesome advice. I also looked online last night for further information on reading the diagrams so I could decipher what I was looking at. And it makes more sense now knowing that every time a wire crossed another it wasn't necessarily a connection 
Now I know there are a couple hack jobs from the POs BUT I think if I strip enough of the harness housing I should be able to find the proper colours . . . which I decided I need to do anyway as I want to use the stock harness but move things like the starter button/kill switch, ignition,etc
Why do I take on all these jobs with no clue what I am doing??? Oh,right . . . cause thats how I learn!

[calj737]

Why do I take on all these jobs with no clue what I am doing??? Oh,right . . . cause thats how I learn!

Exactly! And let's be serious, it's not lethal stuff that you're dealing with after all. It's some metal, some copper, and heaps of plastic. If it smokes, do it again until it goes together without smoking. 

Only way we learn is to make some mistakes. And this stuff is pretty darn easy once you get oriented.

[juan_carlito]

It's some metal, some copper, and heaps of plastic. If it smokes, do it again until it goes together without smoking. 

Lol exactly my plan. Actually just checking in here then out to the shop to see what happens . . . either put some carbs back together or start figuring out electrical.

[juan_carlito]

  Rebuilt my carbs tonight - Keihin PD50A/PD50B


Well I decided tonight to go for it and put the carbs back together. I was still unsure if the swaps between the Keihin PD50A and PD50B carbs would work�. But so far, and this is before a test run or tuning, they seem to fit fine.
I used the Keihin PD50A rack that came with my bike. Stole the #3 body from the PD50B rack (removed all jets etc) as well as the air cut off valves and the choke linkage spring which was missing from the PD50A rack when I got the bike . . actually was just held in place with zip ties . . . yea�.. I decided to use the PD50A slides and needles to start and see how she runs later�If it seems like I need more air during the first bit of throttle I'll switch to the PD50B slides and needles as I believe they have slightly larger cut out and different needle position.
One kinda cool thing though . . . since I am going to be running  pods I looked into re-jetting and starting point numbers etc. The 79' CB650 is supposed to have 90's for the mains and 35's for slow jets�.but when I went to rebuild tonight I noticed I have 42's for the slows. This is awesome as my research showed that I should run between 115-120 for the mains and 40-42 for the slows. Which means someone else just saved me some cash!! I'll run it as is now and see what happens. Probably still have to go up with the mains a bit, was thinking about 118's since I am pretty high above sea level anyway. Once I get everything all back together I'll get myself a cab sync tool and see how I did
Overview of carbs:
Keihin PD50A/PD50B
Mains - 90
Slow - 42
Pilot screw - 2 turns out
Float height - 1/2 inch

Oh also grabbed a few photos of the wiring right now so anyone following along can see what I was talking about. Although I will say . . . Its not as bad as I thought after actually looking it over a bit. Most the harness is still neat and tidy�just near the connectors where the PO did his thing is messy. But if I can follow the path from the battery I can replace connectors and clean up as I go�.OR I could still make my own harness�but I am not trimming  much so might as well use the stock one and save a bit of coin.

Now some photos:


Keihin PD50A carb - missing air cutoff valves



So I stole some from the PD50B rack


Replaced jets etc and found my slows are 42's instead of 35's  . . . BONUS



Finally replaced this choke linkage spring!!


And now I have this  . . .




Some shots of the wiring . .


oh and I found this . . . how can I incorporate it into my buid somehow?

Thanks for checking out my build. If you enjoy it please share this thread with others on the forum

[calj737]

In the wiring photos, that stray orange wire looks to be your left rear turn signal wire.

Also, some pretty dodgy connections that need to be soldered and shrink wrapped (if it were my bike). When you pull apart the bullet connections, you can use a .17 rifle scrub brush and insert into the female side to clean all the corrosion and gunk out. Then reassemble with a tad of dielectric grease. Male end needs to be super clean also for best results.

Be kinda hard to build around a glass bottle, but it is a pretty cool trinket-

[juan_carlito]

In the wiring photos, that stray orange wire looks to be your left rear turn signal wire.

Also, some pretty dodgy connections that need to be soldered and shrink wrapped (if it were my bike). When you pull apart the bullet connections, you can use a .17 rifle scrub brush and insert into the female side to clean all the corrosion and gunk out. Then reassemble with a tad of dielectric grease. Male end needs to be super clean also for best results.

Be kinda hard to build around a glass bottle, but it is a pretty cool trinket-

Thanks again for the pointers. I plan on redoing all the connections anyway because they are either done by the PO and as noted are not the greatest OR they are 30+ years old and updating couldn't hurt. Just a matter of getting it all sorted first. But you've made me far less nervous about it!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

So are you trying to "incorporate" Crystal Skull Vodka into your build by consuming it or by attaching the cool bottle to your bike, like some light fixture with a LED bulb for illumination?

[Killer Canary]

Make a brake light out of it!
I still haven't figured if your spare camshaft can be repaired. Weird break.
I'm starting to think I'll never find one.

[juan_carlito]

So are you trying to "incorporate" Crystal Skull Vodka into your build by consuming it or by attaching the cool bottle to your bike, like some light fixture with a LED bulb for illumination?

Well in order to incorporate the bottle I must consume the contents 
Perhaps I should get more . . . you know in case I break that one or something.
It would make a cool light somehow.

[juan_carlito]

Make a brake light out of it!
I still haven't figured if your spare camshaft can be repaired. Weird break.
I'm starting to think I'll never find one.

Like I said it's all new to me, but I was pretty sure that wasn't good lol. I might be going to look in the local "bone yard" again soon since I have noticed I can tighten my valve covers properly because the threads are stripped out of the head . . . either gonna get a used one OR try and repair the holes to the next size up hardware. Haven't decided yet. But if I do go to the boneyard I'll keep and eye out for you. The guy has somewhere in the 1000's of bikes in pieces on his property. Confusing as hell to find anything but worth a look.

[calj737]

You'll need a proper shop to install heli-coils at this point I'd suspect. Upsizing the bolts after tapping new threads may not be such a good idea either as they might create interferences with the heads and shanks, if not cracking the valve cover itself. I'd ship the head off to a machine shop.

[juan_carlito]

You'll need a proper shop to install heli-coils at this point I'd suspect. Upsizing the bolts after tapping new threads may not be such a good idea either as they might create interferences with the heads and shanks, if not cracking the valve cover itself. I'd ship the head off to a machine shop.

Hmmm… Perhaps I will look for a replacement at the bone yard. Probably cheaper than a machine shop

[juan_carlito]

New Parts & Update
So my order from Dimecity Cycles came in and after the usual government ass raping (taxes/brokerage fees) you receive when ordering parts for the US into Canada, I have them all unboxed and ready to GO! First some pics of the parts that came in. Nothing fancy just slimming down some things and getting the essentials I need to get riding….
New shorter shocks


Some new bar end mini mirrors


A new bates style head lamp



A set of mini gauges. Speedo w/ idiot lights and a Tach



Some new carb boots….old ones pretty hard and had cracks



New blinkers…small torpedo style


Master cylinder rebuild kit . . . breaks a good thing


License plate bracket and tail light



And some new pod filters



Also got a horn but didn't take a photo I guess . . . but its a horn . . . use your imagination lol.
 After unboxing I figured I'd do some work. First thing was a simple little job. Just cut down the old foot controls peg mounts so I could use them as spacers instead of fabricating new ones or using a bunch of washers…




 Then I measured the ride height both with the stock seat and again just at the frame height. Was planning on switching to the new suspension tonight.


 
Instead of doing the shocks however, I decided to check out the new mini gauges…first I removed the old cluster. Then just used the stock brackets and some old hardware to test mount the new minis.




Then I had to check light placement . . . just by hand of course because I'll have to fabricate some sort of track for the headlight myself.


I was curious though. Can you mount a bates style headlight like this upside down? I don't see why not?


(Part 1 of 2)

[juan_carlito]

(Part 2 of 2)
Ok….easy stuff over. I really need to stop procrastinating in regards to the top end engine rebuild. I have had the full engine rebuild kit for quite some time now but haven't used it….So I started tonight!
First removed the exhaust . . . and it's looking a little dirty you could say…




After exhaust was off I removed the breather covers and the valve cover.



Notice the 'X' marks on the three bolts…two have stripped heads…but the third…..


And of course I forgot to look first on which length bolt goes where . . . but at least I laid them out nice after . . . right?


Will be replacing this gasket . . .


And thats where I stopped tonight. Mostly because I think I need a second set of hands for the cylinder head removal so I can keep tension on the cam chain while lifting the head off. Plus I'm going to have to drill out that broken bolt and figure I should do that job not at 2am after a few beers.. .. .. instead I'll do it mid day . . . after a few beers lol
So next I'll finish disassembly of the engine to replace gaskets . . . I should have got new piston rings but didn't . . . then I'll put her all back together and switch over that rear suspension to see how much different ride height is going to be. Then I guess it's on to that mess of wires, figuring how and where to mount lights, fabrication of any brackets etc needed, and then mounting that rear light/licence plate bracket. I suppose at that point I can replace fluids and test start and hopefully with any luck she'll run! I am pretty sure I'll need new main jets still, probably up to a 118 or so. Also not sure if the needles on the carbs are adjustable so that might be fun.

Oh yea . . . I almost forgot . . . my daughter "Milani Rayne" just might end up a little biker girl yet. Pretty sure the horses are winning though, but she did come spend some time in the shop and on her future chopper lol


Well thats all for now! Thanks for checking out my build, and if you enjoy it please share it with others. Peace!

[juan_carlito]

Also . . . is there supposed to be some sort of gasket where the exhaust meets the head? There was non when I removed it. Just the little split ring thing between pipe and collar… Perhaps this was part of poor running and "smokey" engine before?

[calj737]

Headlight: you can install "upside down" but you have to rotate the element within the bucket also. The lens has a directional focus for the beam. Turn it on at night and you'll see...

Head bolts: try grabbing the sheared bolt with vise grips and turning it out before drilling it. If it is sheared flush to the head, be careful and use a left hand bit. Use this parts fiche to locate the different length bolts installation location: http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb650-1979-usa_model472/partslist/E++01.html#results

Exhaust gaskets: they're copper o-rings smashed into the exhaust port. Your bike has them and they are visible from the pictures. Use a small metal pick and pull them out. Replace them for proper seal; crush once kind of part.

Cam chain: use a bungee cord, or piece of wire to retain the chain while you remove the head. Release all tension on it first, remove the sprocket from the cam, remove cam from the end. Takes a bit of fiddling to get loose and free.

Removing the head: loosen the head bolts in the same sequence as torquing them, beginning at the center and working out.

[juan_carlito]

Headlight: you can install "upside down" but you have to rotate the element within the bucket also. The lens has a directional focus for the beam. Turn it on at night and you'll see...

Head bolts: try grabbing the sheared bolt with vise grips and turning it out before drilling it. If it is sheared flush to the head, be careful and use a left hand bit. Use this parts fiche to locate the different length bolts installation location: http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb650-1979-usa_model472/partslist/E++01.html#results

Exhaust gaskets: they're copper o-rings smashed into the exhaust port. Your bike has them and they are visible from the pictures. Use a small metal pick and pull them out. Replace them for proper seal; crush once kind of part.

Cam chain: use a bungee cord, or piece of wire to retain the chain while you remove the head. Release all tension on it first, remove the sprocket from the cam, remove cam from the end. Takes a bit of fiddling to get loose and free.

Removing the head: loosen the head bolts in the same sequence as torquing them, beginning at the center and working out.

As always, thanks a lot calj737! I'll take a look in my engine rebuild kit, maybe it has the copper o-rings. If not I'll look for some or read the forums for the old DIY version that some old schooler has lol.
The bolt is sheered off level with the head so I'll be drilling it out. I have drill bits and screw extractor set with left hand bits. Only "issue" with doing the job is I'll probably have to remove the engine to do so. Doubt the drill will have the space I need otherwise. Was hoping to avoid it but hey . . . #$%* happens. On a positive if I have to remove the whole thing maybe I can actually give it a good clean and possibly paint.
 Stay Tuned

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

JC,

I'm curious where you got your engine rebuild kit for your 650 and what it includes.  650 parts suppliers are not nearly as plentiful as for the 750 or 550.

Aside from gaskets, are you increasing displacement (Dynoman offers a 674 kit for the 650)?  Are you replacing internal chains (primary and cam chains) and tensioners?

[juan_carlito]

JC,

I'm curious where you got your engine rebuild kit for your 650 and what it includes.  650 parts suppliers are not nearly as plentiful as for the 750 or 550.

Aside from gaskets, are you increasing displacement (Dynoman offers a 674 kit for the 650)?  Are you replacing internal chains (primary and cam chains) and tensioners?

I got the kit from bikebandit.com and I believe its just gaskets and o rings etc. As for increasing displacement . . . probably not. Well not right now anyway. Its my first ever bike and build so I'll save jobs like that for further down the road when I have more experience. Same with the internal chains. As long as everything seems to be in working order as I go I'm not going to fuss to much yet. Again further down the road perhaps I will.
Thanks for checking out the thread.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

No worries. Check the cam chain tensioner carefully for cracks on the rubber surfaces.