Topic: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?

[Mercuno]

ok then I will get  a new meter tommorrow. I have repeatedly touched the terminals of the battery with it on all kinds of settings. I will retest everything and get back to you. Thanks so much....haha you live you learn

[Don R]

How about a Honda EU1000 watt generator on a luggage rack? Then if the power goes out at home you can still run the beer frig.

[dave500]

dont touch the probes with your fingers when you test resistance,itll be going through your skin aswell and upset the reading,your meter should have a fuse inside that will blow if you do something like apply voltage when its on restistance setting,in which case the meter will go dead,if its battery is old itll be a good idea to replace it with a better one than what came in the meter.

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Have you considered solar panels?  Depending on the weather, they can be much more efficient than the OEM Honda equipment. 

[Terry in Australia]

I like Don's suggestion re: the generator, those things use hardly any gas and you could charge your battery using the 12V outlet, and run a couple of big driving lights from your 115V or 240V (depending on where you live) outlet.

If you were happy to tow a small trailer behind your bike you could carry a small refrigerator for cold drinks and ice cream during rest breaks, and even perhaps an air conditioner with some special hoses that you could stuff into your clothing if you're riding on a real hot day.

Heck, with the refrigerator and a small electric pump you could even fashion a "cool suit" like Nascar drivers use, that circulates cold water thru tubes sewn into your clothing. Good one Don, a little bit of practical luxury for not much money, and no electrical issues either!

[cookindaddy]

No charging woes here

[Mercuno]

Haha I think I will look into that  nascar suit....I knew I could find some good ideas here.

Well I bought a new tester and of course the old one was deep fried and served with a side of butter.

So I tested the regulator:

with the wires still connected to it and battery disconnected I got 41.6 as my reading
without out the wires hooked to it I got 12.6
(all the tests were done via the green and white wires...

Going to test the yellow wires coming from the left side cover now.

[Mercuno]

P.S. if i touch the probes together the readout is19-23 depending on how much I am moving lol,  but if they are not touching it reads 1

[Mercuno]

I tested just the green and white wire this time and got a reading of 7.2. The previous test was conducted on the spades from the regulator itself...this time was just the wires hanging there.


I then did in a bunch of different combos between the yellows and all read 4.2 plus or minus .2

[TwoTired]

If you are not going to follow instructions, or answer direct questions about the meter and electrical troubleshooting procedure, then there is no alternative than to replace each portion of the charging system until it works.

At any rate, you are not giving us enough of, or the right information to diagnose why your system doesn't work now, or if it is damaged enough to harm new replacement components.

Good luck!

[Mercuno]

I dont get it? what did I not answer?

I set the meter on 200 ohms- the readout says 1 without probes touching. Readout says 1.8 when touching probes.
When probing the white and green wires(that go directly into the regulator)(but having them disconnected from the regulator) the readout says 7.2

In between the yellows I get 4.2 across the board.
yellows to frame/ground/case readout says 1...

I have noticed that everytime I turn off the meter when I turn it back on and then touch the probes together I get a different reading. I know I am ignorant as to how this operates but I am trying to figure it out. I apologize but Please grade me on a heavy curve.

I just went outside and turned it on and all at once I checked everything when not touching each other the readout says 1 when touching the readout says 4.0

white to green wires read 11.7...

I did inbetween the yellow wires and get 4.2 in any order
Yellow to ground/case/frame readout says 1.

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Test each component, per the manual.  You will be testing the system voltage while running. Should be over 13 volts at 2000 rpm.  Stator, rectifier, voltage regulator are tested primarily for resistance while isolated (removed, unplugged) This will eliminate component problems which then leaves wire issues such as shorts, breaks, or corrosion.  Check the connector with the 3 yellow wires coming into it.  Many times, this is melted or corroded and causes a no charge condition. 

[dave500]

if you face the new alternator forwards and replace the drive pulley with a four blade scalloped fan itll charge as wind from forward motion drives it around.

[cookindaddy]

Mercuno - When you say the meter reads 1 with the probes apart not touching anything, is that "1" way over on the left side of the display? As opposed to the other numbers you are giving which are on the right side of the display?

This is the meter's way of telling you "open circuit" or "infinite resistance", or at least a resistance higher than 200 ohms which is the maximum you selected it to test on the control knob.

I agree with the comment about your not helping us to help you. I was trying to help you on your "small brain" thread and then I find you here trying to "simplify the circuit" by using another alternator. No offense meant, we all had to start somewhere, but how can you possibly hope to do that without a basic understanding of electricity and electrical measurements?

Perhaps someone near you can sit you down and show you the basics of electrical measurements on your bike. Might be better one on one I think and might help you get closer to the problem?

I'm still leaning to a weak battery based on the rough average of all the information given in the two threads.

Good luck with finding your charging issue.

 

[TwoTired]

I set the meter on 200 ohms- the readout says 1 without probes touching. Readout says 1.8 when touching probes.

If I didn't have the same meter to mimic the tests, your response leaves doubt (not a good thing when dealing with electricity).
You have a 4 digit display.  A number 1 without a decimal indicates infinity ohms (probes unconnected). Infinity is an important concept in understanding electrical operation, as infinitesimal current and power flow through such resistances.  Your meter displays 1.8 when it actually detects a direct short.  This is also an important distinction.  And, it also means you will have to subtract 1.8Ω from any measurement you make with that meter and test lead set up.  And, if you test an electrical path or device where 1.8Ω is displayed, then that path or device tested will conduct all the power and current that is available to flow.  (This can be good or bad, location dependent.)

When probing the white and green wires(that go directly into the regulator)(but having them disconnected from the regulator) the readout says 7.2

Subtract the 1.8 from 7.2 = 5.4Ω  The nominal field coil resistance is 4.9Ω + or - 10%.
So, you have a good field coil and needn't worry about replacing that or having it damage a replacement regulator.
See? This is actual progress!  You now know something in your system is good and you can shift your focus to other portions of the circuit!

In between the yellows I get 4.2 across the board.
yellows to frame/ground/case readout says 1...

This is a difficult measurement to make with accuracy.  You must again subtract your test tool error of 1.8Ω.  4.2Ω minus 1.8Ω equals 2.4 Ω.  While Honda states that 0.35Ω + or - 10% is what it should be, the accuracy of your meter is within 1-10 digits.  These digits can be added or subtracted from any reading shown on the display, depending on what mode the selector knob was placed.  Since all your readings were the same, and it is rather rare for the stator to go bad without some physical trauma, I'd declare it both good and safe to use in circuit.

The 1 (or infinity) indicates the yellow wires aren't shorted to the the casework.  This is good and another known added to our database of facts.

I have noticed that everytime I turn off the meter when I turn it back on and then touch the probes together I get a different reading. I know I am ignorant as to how this operates but I am trying to figure it out. I apologize but Please grade me on a heavy curve.

It is important to declare what the meter's selector knob position is in when making such a report.
Assuming you are still in the 200Ω scale...
The meter supplies power for the circuit it is testing.  Touching the probes together completes a circuit, and the tool attempt to measure the power or current that is conveyed when the probes touch each other.  Display variations can come from tool inaccuracy/tolerances, or actual changes in the surface contact resistance between the probe tips.  The probe tips can be contaminated which can add some small resistance to the test circuit.  Unless the probe tips are gold or platinum, a slight oxidation film can form on the metal surface.  The resistance is very small, particularly when very small current flow through the contact, which the meter provides.  If you want to eliminate or reduce this, rub the probes together to wipe it clean, or use the tips/points to pierce the oxidation.

I just went outside and turned it on and all at once I checked everything when not touching each other the readout says 1 when touching the readout says 4.0

white to green wires read 11.7...

It is clear that your instrument is not in the lab reference type category.  
Still, it told you and us things needed to be known, both about the circuit being tested and the test equipment itself.

Sometimes, even if a wrench and bent and twisted, it can still serve.  A torque wrench that is known to be off by 5 lbs, can still be used with purpose, using that knowledge.

Anyway, it looks like the alternator itself is a good unit.  Three components left: Rectifier, Regulator, and interconnect wiring.
See how much more you know now?

Want to test the remaining components you have using other test tool functions?  Or, is your heart still set on replacement?

Cheers,

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Above and beyond TT, above and beyond..........:-)

[cookindaddy]

You are truly inspiring Lloyd -  as well as being a great teacher.
You are a fine example of what we could all strive for.

And you never seem to lose your patience

[Mercuno]

I was sure schooled there Thank you so much TT. I was wondering about the correlation of touching the probes because everytime. 2+2=4. 

I am ready now boss. Lets go do some testing.

[Terry in Australia]

I still think Don hit the bullseye first time with his little Honda generator. Hook it up to my refrigerator/cool suit /battery charger (or heated seat, grips and vest in winter) trailer and you can ignore all that techno-BS above and just enjoy the ride...........

[TwoTired]

I assume you'd like to test the Rectifier next?
Disconnect it from the wire harness. Test it "out of Circuit".

The meter selector will be changed to the position next to 200Ω, on the symbol that looks like -<|-.
This is the diode setting, which makes the meter supply enough voltage to turn on functional diodes and make them conduct.
There are six diodes in the rectifier.  Their purpose is to convert the AC current made in the alternator, to DC current which can be used by the battery to restore power that was drained from it.  The diodes do this by only allowing current to flow in one direction.  You will now test them for this correct function.
Select a probe polarity and apply the probes to each yellow wire and the green wire.   Record the 3 meter readings.
Now switch the probes, which reverses the polarity, and again apply them to each yellow and green wire.   Record the 3 meter readings.
That just tested three of the diodes. 
Now do the other three by applying the probes to the yellow and RED terminals.  Record the 3 meter readings.
Again switch the probe polarity test the yellow and RED terminals again.  Record the 3 meter readings.

What you should have as a result is six readings that are very high, and six readings that are very low.  This would show that each diode will conduct current in only one direction.  If any diodes are burned open, they will never show a low reading.  If any diodes are shorted, they will never show a very high reading.  You should now know if your rectifier is good or bad.

If you want to move toward testing the wiring components.  Then disconnect the battery at it's terminals.  Then set the meter back to the 200Ω scale.  At the bike harness connector where the rectifier plugs in, place one probe on the green terminal and the other probe on the battery NEG cable terminal (NOT the battery itself).  Record and report the reading.
Repeat the same test probing the Red connector terminal and the battery POS cable terminal. Record and report the results.
What you are looking for in both these tests is very low resistance in both cases, which shows proper connectivity of the charging system components to the battery terminals.

Next we will do voltage testing.
Move the selector knob on the meter to the DCV 20 position.
Place the probes on the battery terminals.  A fully charged battery that has been removed from the charger for two hours should read between 12.6 and 12.8V.   Tell us what your battery tests.

If you have found no faults or tests that are out of limits so far, then reconnect the battery and the rectifier to the bike.  Find a separate insulated wire that you can attach between the battery POS terminal and the White wire to the alternator.  (Assuming the Vreg is removed from or unconnected to the bike harness.)  Alligator clips would be of help here.

Start the bike and monitor the battery voltage. Record and report the voltage at 1000 RPM and in 1000 RPM increments up to 5000 RPM.
Discontinue the testing if or when the battery voltage rises to 14.5- 15V.  Such an indication will prove the alternator capable of charging the battery. 

Which leaves two more tests.

With the bike not running and the key switch on, the black wire to the Vreg should have battery voltage on it.  Probe any green connection, (or battery NEG terminal) along with the black wire, and you should see 12.(something) volts, or whatever the battery voltage potential is.
If that is what you get, then the last thing to test is the Voltage regulator.

Let me know when you get this far, and we can continue from there.  If the bike still won't charge the battery with the Vreg you have installed, we can find out why or perhaps even fix it with a light massage. 

Cheers,

[cookindaddy]

Moderators or whoever does this?

Can TT's last two pieces here on testing the charging circuit make it into the FAQs somehow (maybe with a different subject title)?

[Tintop]

+1, excellent walk through of the testing procedures.

[Spanner 1]

Gee guys, TT has plenty of input already in the Electrical FAQ's.... including about the charging system.
If some people read about how their bikes work/ can be fixed, we wouldn't have a Thread with 96 responses that just goes back to the original problem and how to fix it. !! But that's human nature, let's consider some other complicated fix first ( for ages ) then get back to repairing the actual problem  .

[Mercuno]

Ok TT thank you for your patience . I tested the rectifier and voila'.

Diode setting:
probe from green to each yellow reads:
1=1 or infinity
2=infinity
3=infinity
when reversing polarity it reads:
1=528
2=518
3=537

from red to yellows:
1=infinity
2=510
3=infinity
reversing polarity it reads:
1=infinity
2=infinity
3=infinity

I then disconnect battery.Set meter @200 ohms.   touching probes gets 3.3
from green to neg wire reads=3.3
from red to pos wire= 3.2

I never thought I would be so happy to find out I had a bad rectifier..lol

[Mercuno]

So I dont have a tach on this bike....I just tested the wires going to the regulator earlier for sure. Is there a way to test the regulator itself. Or do I need to have the battery hooked to it? With the rectifier being bad , common sense would tell me that the only way to check the regulator would be as a standalone and I dont know if that is possible.