Topic: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//

[Retro Rocket]

I just think we have a different view of what a close call is.  To me it would involve hard braking or extreme maneuvering.  Weaving around a pothole, debris in the road, or even someone pulling out in front of you...as long as you have time and space to avoid the situation without hard braking or maneuvering I don't see it as a close call.  In 35 years of riding I can recall one time I hit any sizable debris on the road.  Never have slipped on a diesel or oil spill.  Sure I have people who pull out in front of me and stuff like that but the vast majority of the time I have the time and space to avoid it without to much effort because I was paying attention and had my eye on them.  Maybe if I commuted in heavy traffic my numbers would go up...but I don't care to ride in that situation for any length of time.  I purposely travel at times and places when and were traffic volume is low.

I agree. A close call that I had to use my skills? NONE so far.

You agree with what..? What the hell is "good proper riding", riding is far more physical than driving and is a combination of skill and mental ability all at the same time, Its the exact opposite to what you "think". Mental skills are useless if you don't have full control of your bike, if you have to think about something you're probably dead, and if you think you know what to do but don't have the physical skills you're dead as well. Most of the accidents i've seen, the mental side "skill" {what ever thats supposed to mean}happens first, usually begins with "#$%*", its the panic and slam on the rear brake that makes it worse, or object fixation,  thats very common too, or being paranoid about braking whilst trying to turn, and thats if you are lucky enough to see it coming.  Whether you like it or not you will have an accident riding you're bike. You carry on like you are perfect and really, you have no idea, you haven't even tested your "skills" all you have is just a pile of information you've never had to use, and thats by your own words. Steve {Srust} rides for fun, he clearly said that,  I rode solely for transport in 2 different cities , my only form of legal transport {and didn't have to lie about it} for 20+ years, I got my first 750 Honda at 16 years old, 35 years ago. You probably don't have the skills to use in the first place Fenders, you only think you do  and thats dangerous, the last thing you want on a bike is a false sense of security or to be cocky, seen it all before, you clearly haven't been riding long enough to know and if you've never had a close call or had to take evasive action,  how the hell do you know what you'll do until it happens ?, or better still, what the 500+ pound motorcycle beneath you will do when you try..?, Answer = you don't, you can't..!!  You don't qualify as experienced, not even close, even though you think you are, someone with your limited time in the saddle should be asking questions, not trying to tell anyone that'll listen whats right and wrong.  Anyway, you blew any credibility you had out of water when you started making sh1t up earlier on in this thread ,  I'll certainly never believe a thing you say and i'm not the only one.. ......

[trueblue]

Hey Mick, I wonder if Fenders is related to Lucky?  They could almost pass for father and son

[martin99]

There's been many a time when I've checked myself before responding to one of Fender's posts, I'm not known for #$%*-disturbing and I'm not that much keen on confrontation or causing ill-feeling either. But what Retro is saying is 100% correct. I don't know Mick personally, we live at opposite ends of the planet, but we are clearly of a similar age and have spent an equal number of years in the saddle. This isn't an attempt to gang up on you Fenders, but perhaps if you heard some reality from more than one experienced bloke you might actually take some of it on board rather than arrogantly brush Retro's comments off as a personal vendetta, as you always seem to do. I've never had formal training in my life but I'm sure it's a good thing and taken alongside acrued experience can only help to make you a better, safer rider. The most serious accident I have had so far was when a dog ran out directly in front of me between two parked cars, didn't even have time to think, let alone take evasive action, and over the bars I went, left lying in the road broken and bleeding whilst watching said dog merrily continue it's walk up the road with not so much as a limp. What would your training have told you to do in that situation I wonder? It just goes to show that there will always be situations when neither training or experience will be of any use and that riding a motorcycle is a dangerous thing to do. At the end of the day Fenders you can take or leave any advice given on here, but try to remember it is all designed to help people stay safe. And i'll take the advice of a saddle-weary old-timer over someone still in the feotal stage of their riding career any day. You will get there Fenders, but you ain't there yet and you should realise that comments made over the internet can be very influential to a novice and bad advice can be dangerous, however well intended it may be.

Hope this helps

[dave500]

I broke my left elbow 18 years ago after hitting a dog which ran out and crashing heavily,i was doing about 25-30 kays on a bicycle!

[vfourfreak]

I have had many close calls over the past 40 years where there was no 20 second, or indeed any appreciabe timeframe to respond to the unfolding event. I survived unscathed all except one, (fractured femur at 15 mph on a C50 !!) but frankly I would find it hard to summarise even in a lengthy essay how I have done it. I know it was not luck, there was more than that at play, experience is about the only word I can think of. And experience happens over time.

Kev

[petercb750]

Fenders, your arrogance and over inflated ego and misguided 'knowledge' never cease to amaze. For just once in your life actually READ what is said instead of making stuff up to beat your chest, you never know, you might actually learn something. I reckon I've accrued pretty good road skills in 43 years of riding (and I had my first CB at 18), I've road raced and raced on the roads ( ), I teach and I listen, and I still have scary moments....I expect the unexpected, sometimes I see it unfolding 20secs ahead of me, sometimes it comes out of a side street with 2 secs or less to react.....but I never say I know it all and am alive because of my skills....there is a degree of luck in there too, and I've got the scars to prove it haha.
The one main thing that occurs to me from your last little diatribe is.....'famous last words', but I sincerely hope you never have to experience that. You probably won't, because you're a "proper" rider.....

[Bailgang]

What I have found in my mere 5 years of riding is all the contradictions in advice, earlier in the thread there was a debate of where to ride on the road mainly riding in the center of the road or offset left or right. Both points of view have very valid points. I've also heard debates on what to do in a tank slap situation, one experienced rider told me to give the bike full throttle, another experienced rider told me to apply the brakes. The closest call I've ever had was trying to keep up with my kids cbr600 in the turns while I was riding my 750 which at that time was still new to me and I ended up sailing through a ditch at 60mph and the main reason that happened was due to target fixation on my part. Fortunately for me I was able to keep my wits about me and kept the bike on 2 wheels and made it out of the ditch avoiding a mail box. After reading up on the topic of target fixation I found that even that is a hotly debated topic. GEEZ can't we agree on something?

In my own humble opinion what all these contradictions mean to me is that how I react to a given situation is something that is gradually being honed by experience because each one is unique in it's own way which pretty much throws out any golden rules because of all the variables involved. With only 5 years in the saddle I still have a lot of learning to do and I actually like opposing points of views on this subject because each has valid points to consider ...... but it can get confusing. I look at it this way, if I've made it to my destination safe and sound without a scratch on me, my bike or anyone else then I must have done something right, got damn lucky or a combination of the 2.

[Stev-o]

 I was riding my 750 which at that time was still new to me and I ended up sailing through a ditch at 60mph...

I'd say that was a close call!

[Retro Rocket]

I broke my left elbow 18 years ago after hitting a dog which ran out and crashing heavily,i was doing about 25-30 kays on a bicycle!

Dave, I hit  German shepherd on my 900 boldor in Sydney, ran out of a yard straight in front of me, I had enough time to stand up {just} and ride over him but the rear wheel hit him in his midriff causing the bike to land on its front wheel, It flung me chest first onto the road cracking my sternum and breaking 2 ribs, the worst part was trying to re inflate my lungs, never been that winded in my life..."Good proper riding" failed me on that day...

[Bailgang]

 I was riding my 750 which at that time was still new to me and I ended up sailing through a ditch at 60mph...

I'd say that was a close call!

Oh it most definitely was. After catching up with my kid at an intersection he amusingly saw the clumps of grass in the crash bars and header of my 750 and said "what the hell is that?" and I said "just shut up and I'll tell you about it later". I was still coming down from the intense hit of adrenaline.

[BobbyR]

In my own humble opinion what all these contradictions mean to me is that how I react to a given situation is something that is gradually being honed by experience because each one is unique in it's own way which pretty much throws out any golden rules because of all the variables involved. With only 5 years in the saddle I still have a lot of learning to do and I actually like opposing points of views on this subject because each has valid points to consider ...... but it can get confusing. I look at it this way, if I've made it to my destination safe and sound without a scratch on me, my bike or anyone else then I must have done something right, got damn lucky or a combination of the 2.

I think that you have summed up what it takes to be a good anything. We all learn if we are lucky and smart enough to acknowledge lessons learned as they come along.
Every time I pull into the garage after a ride I consider it a successful mission. It;s a habit I picked up a long time ago.

[BeSeeingYou]

Maybe we need a definite definition of what a close call is.  I will offer up this, "If you have to throw your underwear away after the ride you had a close call."

[Retro Rocket]

Maybe we need a definite definition of what a close call is.  I will offer up this, "If you have to throw your underwear away after the ride you had a close call."

And if you don't wear any.....check your socks....

[70CB750]

In my own humble opinion what all these contradictions mean to me is that how I react to a given situation is something that is gradually being honed by experience because each one is unique in it's own way which pretty much throws out any golden rules because of all the variables involved. With only 5 years in the saddle I still have a lot of learning to do and I actually like opposing points of views on this subject because each has valid points to consider ...... but it can get confusing. I look at it this way, if I've made it to my destination safe and sound without a scratch on me, my bike or anyone else then I must have done something right, got damn lucky or a combination of the 2.

Every time I pull into the garage after a ride I consider it a successful mission. It;s a habit I picked up a long time ago.

Every time, before I leave the house on motorcycle I ask myself if this is the day when I don't come back.

[BobbyR]

In my own humble opinion what all these contradictions mean to me is that how I react to a given situation is something that is gradually being honed by experience because each one is unique in it's own way which pretty much throws out any golden rules because of all the variables involved. With only 5 years in the saddle I still have a lot of learning to do and I actually like opposing points of views on this subject because each has valid points to consider ...... but it can get confusing. I look at it this way, if I've made it to my destination safe and sound without a scratch on me, my bike or anyone else then I must have done something right, got damn lucky or a combination of the 2.

Every time I pull into the garage after a ride I consider it a successful mission. It;s a habit I picked up a long time ago.

Every time, before I leave the house on motorcycle I ask myself if this is the day when I don't come back.

Every time I leave I fully intend to come back. I pay attention and do what I need to make that happen.

[Vicman]

Maybe we need a definite definition of what a close call is.  I will offer up this, "If you have to throw your underwear away after the ride you had a close call."

And if you don't wear any.....check your socks....

What about when you pinch a hole in the seat? I've done that twice

[evanphi]

Every time I leave I fully intend to come back. I pay attention and do what I need to make that happen.

That is the correct attitude, I think. Always plan for a successful mission.

Always kiss the wife and kid goodbye, and tell them I love them, though. There are unplanned #$%*s on the road, after all.

[70CB750]

Every time I leave I fully intend to come back. I pay attention and do what I need to make that happen.

That is the correct attitude, I think. Always plan for a successful mission.

Always kiss the wife and kid goodbye, and tell them I love them, though. There are unplanned #$%*s on the road, after all.

I am not leaving the house thinking kamikaze  - it is just a thought I have. 

[evanphi]

Every time I leave I fully intend to come back. I pay attention and do what I need to make that happen.

That is the correct attitude, I think. Always plan for a successful mission.

Always kiss the wife and kid goodbye, and tell them I love them, though. There are unplanned #$%*s on the road, after all.

I am not leaving the house thinking kamikaze  - it is just a thought I have. 

I think the same too, of course. For me my best attitudes for anything I do have always been to complete it at whatever cost, rather than expect to not finish and be fighting the whole way down. Depends on my mood that day... :|