Author Topic: CB750 Handling  (Read 8254 times)

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Offline Loudpipe

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CB750 Handling
« on: October 15, 2006, 09:40:08 PM »
So, let's put our biases aside and be honest: how does the CB750 really handle compared to modern equipment?  I'm curious, since I've never ridden a modern sport bike, but I'm certain many members have and even own them.  So be honest, one way or the other: how well do the big 750s really handle?
- LP

1974 Honda CB350F

Previous: 1978 Honda CB750F, 1971 Honda CB500K, 2009 Yamaha YZF-R1

Offline kghost

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2006, 10:05:51 PM »
Modern sportbike? can you say peterbuilt? Mack truck man

Still they handle way better than many cruisers.

Honestly? I can corner and handle better than say a V-Max......just can't catch them on the straights.  ;D
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ElCheapo

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2006, 10:08:13 PM »
My new Victory kicks my K5's ass in many ways. While it is a 1500. It does glide the corner much smoother. Fact is, the k5 is an old bike. Ride one of these and then go ride a perimeter frame, there is just no comparision. Don't get me wrong the old K5 does still kick ass in her own right.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 10:09:58 PM by ElCheapo »

eldar

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2006, 06:34:47 AM »
Well I think the later 77/78 750s handled a bit different from the earlier bikes. I think there were some changes to the front end as far as rake goes. I could be wrong though, but they do look a little different. Maybe someday I will be able to check it out.

Offline sparty

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2006, 06:47:54 AM »
So, let's put our biases aside and be honest: how does the CB750 really handle compared to modern equipment?  I'm curious, since I've never ridden a modern sport bike, but I'm certain many members have and even own them.  So be honest, one way or the other: how well do the big 750s really handle?

For their time period, the early 70's CB750s were the most powerful, best handling, best braking bikes on the street.  So, could you imagine how poor the other bikes at that time must have been by today's standards...  Jeez.

I have owned a whole host of modern sportbikes.  Even my least favorite sportbike (Katana) rode, handled, and had better braking than my CB750.  But my CB750 is a true riders bike, requiriing rider input every moment you are in the saddle.

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Offline Bodain

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 07:03:26 AM »
So, let's put our biases aside and be honest: how does the CB750 really handle compared to modern equipment?  I'm curious, since I've never ridden a modern sport bike, but I'm certain many members have and even own them.  So be honest, one way or the other: how well do the big 750s really handle?

It is a friggin tank. There is no comparison. I might as well be riding a brick....

I don't do old bikes for their awesome technology or their handling. When I want to go fast and hit the corners hard, I leave the old 70's bikes in the garage where they belong.....   I have dual personalities. My other personality wants to ride something totally different, something rarely if ever seen on the road. Something that is noticed as ..... Wow is that an old CB?

Yesterday was the first day on the road for the 74 Yamaha RD 350 I've been working on for 5 months. I got one. How much do you want for it?
I got two. Wow... Is that an RD?   So typically whenever I'm gasing one of these 70's bikes up I will have someone recognize what it is and want to talk about it. When I'm riding my modern bike, it's just another modern bike that doesn't really stand out. I could not live without the modern bike nor could I be without a vintage bike. They serve my two personalities.
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1971 Honda CB500

Offline Tower

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 08:10:12 AM »
Compared to either a Suzuki GS500f (crotch rocket) or Suzuki Burgman 650 (scooter/automatic), the Honda CB750K3 is hard to ride. You have to fight the CB750 to get it around corners and at low speed its unstable.  At high speed the front end feels like it has a mind of its own, (new bearings and the stabilizer help and so does upping the tire pressure to 40psi on the Michelins).  But, it sure grabs attention.

My other bikes are quieter, faster, smoother.  The Burgman is larger (with what you might call a trunk under the seat) and easier to ride at any speed, while the GS500f is smaller and more agile, fast on the acceleration and much quicker stopping.

The real difference is that every morning I take my coffee into the garage and between sips, whisper sweet nothings only to the Honda. :D

Offline crazypj

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 08:27:47 AM »
Not even close to being a comparison.
 It handles like a wet turd compared to modern sportbike.
Its too high, too heavy and also underpowered compared to even a 600.
Even modified its about 20hp down, most 600's get around 100bhp
Just be happy you have a classic and grind chunks off it cornering, you can have a great fun time without killing yourself.
Friend bought a 1974 CB750 and likes it better than the CBR600 he has, less frantic and twitchy.
 He's only 20 so has no idea how 'interesting' things got a 'high speed'  to him its an old bike so he doesnt ride it too hard. (high speed for us was anything over 110mph) 'b Modern 600 will 'cruise' at 140ish
The GS 500 is NOT a crotch rocket, its a 40bhp cooking motor with go faster fairing and stickers. Developmen can be easily traced to the GS250T of 1978
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eldar

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 08:30:05 AM »
See now I dont have to fight my K8 on corners except at very low speed as in under 5mph. I only get steering wobble when my hands are not on the bars and only on certain roads which leads me to believe it is the road and not my bike. But then as I said before, I think the rake is different on the later K and Fs and that is probably what makes the difference.

The only ride I can compare it too right now is a honda rebel and the rebel is only better at low speed turning otherwise I feel my 750 handles better at higher speed. Of course the rebel stops faster as it is only a little over half the weight! The rebel suspension sucks worse than my 750 does though.

I do not understand though why we are comparing to sport bikes. Our bracket is more in the cruiser format and once you compare that, we actually do pretty good on our old bikes. In many cases our bikes are more comfortable, easier to ride and still develop close to the same power with only small mods.

I rode with a new honda yesterday and even shifting when he did and not using my rpm advantage, I still stayed with him no problem. Was probably a 750 size also.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 08:32:33 AM by eldar, Master of the K8 Thunder! »

Online SteveD CB500F

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2006, 08:55:56 AM »
I think that my 500 handles OK when I'm cruising around - in fact, after frazzling my brains on the VFR, it sometimes surprises me how well it goes around corners.

Mind you, I don't go too fast on it (max 85ish) and NEVER brake halfway round a bend.

The VFR will do all of that (and at 120+ if I let it)
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Offline crazypj

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2006, 08:56:22 AM »
Hey Eldar,
If your not fighting it your not trying hard enough ;D
I dont bounce like I used to and I've had some 'quality' hospital time so I dont ride like I used to ;)
You really shouldnt try a modern sportbike, they make my neck hurt, too low at front
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eldar

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2006, 12:41:17 PM »
Yeah I dont care much for bending over a tank. I will stick with something I can sit on!

Offline Loudpipe

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2006, 03:40:01 PM »
Nice replies.  I was just curious as to what it was like compared to newer bikes, since I'm new to motorcycling.
- LP

1974 Honda CB350F

Previous: 1978 Honda CB750F, 1971 Honda CB500K, 2009 Yamaha YZF-R1

Offline kghost

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2006, 04:22:15 PM »
About as well as any old machine compared to a new one.

Like say a 50 ford vs a 2006 mustang

Like say a Sopwith camel vs a North American P-51.

you get the idea
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Rocking-M

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2006, 04:37:09 PM »
Oh sure, it ain't a 929 but handling with anything is mostly up to the rider.
I say that because I regularly whip miatas, lotus elise, etc... (pick your sport car)
 with a 27 year old Fiat Spider.
The miatas and the others are fully independent suspensions, rack steering and supposedly
just flat out more responsive. It's not because I'm a better driver. I think it
is because of the Feedback a the Fiat gives with it's solid rear axle and it's
old timey steering gear box (non-power steering). You really get the feed back
and can feel it in your arse or your hands when you screw it
The same was said earlier in this thread and correctly so.
The old honda let's you know when feel the road,
I use to drift my 78 but I've not gotten that feel back.

Having said all that I've been on the 929 Honda and it's
a real great handling bike. But I do remember thinking
there is so little feed back it would be easy to over step one's limitations.

Offline andy750

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2006, 04:44:59 PM »
I dont have that much experience with more modern bikes although just rode a brand new 2006 model CB400SB in Japan and was amazed at the acceleration and smoothness so Im guessing a bigger sports bike is more of this and better.

That being said Ive driven my CB750K4 on some of the best motorcycle roads in the world -we are talking the Alps (Swiss/Italian/German/Austrian) where on one particular pass there were 36 hairpin turns within a mile!!! (or close to that) and there were more passes and corners every day, or on Rt 1 California between Mendocino and San Francisco where you can ride for 125 miles all on tight twisty roads, or Angels Pass (outside of LA), or Devils Highway, Mexico, or over countless mountain passes crossing from Reno, NV to Eureka, CA, or on the German Autobahns where you can sit at (an indicated) 100mph++ for as long as you are outside a town. The point is in all these cases my stock K4 (unfaired) handled very good for a 30+ year old bike. Yes cruising at 100mph+ is a scary thing but handling was fine on my bike at this speed- no speed or front wheel wobble (ever!). Cornering is also ok and in my opinion as long as you have good chain, good tires and good front and rear suspension (progressive front springs and stock back for me) - and Im basing this as tested on 36 hairpin loops!!! :-D

Sure Ill agree the bike is big and heavy but since Im 6`4 with long arms I dont have a height issue or problems throwing it around. I like the real-feel driving it gives. Of course if I could afford a modern sports bike I wouldnt say no either  ;)....but so far the CB750 has done the job quite well.

cheers
Andy

P.S. And starts fine on cold mornings as well :-) And can drive through torrential rain, through snow, high winds, park on beaches, down unpaved forest roads, ride on some of the worlds worst roads (Mexico -Aculpulco -Oxaca) and still survive!! Try all this on a modern bike!!
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eldar

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2006, 06:48:59 PM »
RIGHT ON ANDY!

winston

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2006, 07:18:25 PM »
On the K7 K8 geometry difference...it's my understanding the tree offset to the handlebars was relaxed .11 of an inch outward from the k0-k6 tree's design, for more stable steering feel...and without looking, I think the wheelbase is longer by something like a couple of inches...anyway, I guess the CB750 sohc is considered a big, clunky bike with spongy brakes by modern comparison....but as a noob myself, my K7 has provided me with lots of fun and like the others mentioned...you really can't stop anywhere without someone coming over to ask you about it.




harpo

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2006, 07:54:04 PM »
You can take that as the gospel truth from Andy's 750. The man walks the walk and he's got the seat time to prove it. I agree with him 300%.
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Offline old750

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2006, 10:27:33 PM »
Modern sport bike? I thought my 72 750k WAS the modern sport bike? I just moved up from a 1964 Puch which I thought rode like a dream compared to my old 21 speed mountain bike. There is NOTHING after 1972. NOTHING after 1972......

Offline seaweb11

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2006, 10:59:40 PM »
I kind of equate my 750  to driving a 1970 mgb . Can't really compare that car with a modern sports car, but what fun it is sliding that all that weight through a corner ;D  Lets you know you are on a machine.

The wiring and braking are also very similar  ::)

Offline kghost

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2006, 11:02:42 PM »
Mine is fine straight line......

But its hard to steer around corners  ;D

<<<<<<<<< ;) ;D
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Rocking-M

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2006, 05:58:05 AM »
Wish you wouldn't have shown that avatar, now I'm gonna half to start walking mine again
and show you how to keep it up once you get it there.  :) ;)

Offline kghost

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2006, 06:05:55 AM »
 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

 ;D
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Offline Dave Wyatt

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2006, 11:06:16 AM »
I used to own a K75 BMW and thought it handled pretty sweet.  I used to own a H-D FLHS and thought it was a barge.  While the old Hondamatic isn't up to the handling of the BMW, it is way beyond anything the H-D was capapble of.  The old Honda probably has more handling capability in it than I have as a rider, so it really does not matter.  I've ridden with GXSR's, 949's, KLR 650's and even a guy on a Buell Thunderbolt.  On the roads we travelled, I could almost keep up at any time.  For a 30 year old bike, it does OK in my book.
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Offline sparty

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2006, 11:47:00 AM »
Here is a picture of the best handling bike I ever owned: : ;D

It is also the one I crapped my shorts on. :P

Sparty

1972 CB750 K2 Cafe' Style




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Offline mcpuffett

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2006, 11:57:32 AM »
i find my 76' f1 handles great  ;), no issues, my neighbour has a 96' fireblade which i have ridden on occasions :o, it is like a 250 compared to the f1 lighter, a hell of a lot fasterand the braking is un belivable  ;),     mick.
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eldar

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2006, 12:09:53 PM »
HEY I started on one of those old trail hondas too!  Them things could take a BEATING! I had the trail 70 model from like 74 or something like that.

Offline 77hotrodhonda

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 07:29:30 AM »
I have a 77 k. Before I the fancy roller bearings in it, it was a great handling bike. Now even more so. Handling has to do with the rider. All my buddies have rockets, an I gotta give her all she's got but I can keep right up with them guys in bends and corners comfortably. It leans right down with a little bit of balls and countersteer. Believe me none of us are easy riders. Mine has more capability than the motor has to offer, so I'm goin for motor parts before I jump on a rocket. I had a ninja 750 before and my 77 only lacked rpms.
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Offline motad_uk

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 08:17:21 AM »
i think the older bikes had the advantage of letting you know when going fast- the problem with the modern stuff is that when you get to the edge you are going 50 mph faster with the consequences that goes with the higher speed

I think the number of Rickman framesets sold in the 70s confirm what the handling of Z1 CB750 were really like

Offline sirdaft1

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2012, 07:43:41 PM »
Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead.

The CB's aren't even in the same state when it comes to comparison. I previously owned a '03 GSXR750 before the CB750. They don't compare. One rev's to 15,000+ RPMS and is designed to ride at 100mph or more. The other has soul, is loud and likes cruising around 45mph. Not to bash either, just two totally different bikes; each with perks and downfalls.

And if it helps, I don't own the GSXR anymore and now have a '76 CB750SS by choice. Nothing like that vintage, old school feel.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 08:13:38 PM by sirdaft1 »

Offline scottly

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2012, 08:02:58 PM »

I think the number of Rickman framesets sold in the 70s confirm what the handling of Z1 CB750 were really like
Just how many Rickman CB750 frame sets were sold? We know there were 302 Seeley 750 frames made. I was told that my Seeley kit cost about $1200 US in 1975, but I don't know if that is true, never having seen any actual receipts. If it is true, the kit cost almost as much as the donor K1 did when new. BTW, my bike is a bit lighter than a stock CB750. ;)
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2012, 09:20:46 PM »
Interestingly, the 750's primary handling 'feel' was brought about by American marketing input. The first test frames had over 4" (100mm) of trail, but a brisk discussion with guys like Bob Hansen of American Honda (among others) made the company wonder if the bike was really going to be a hiway buzzbomb, or a Saturday nite boulevard bike. The trail ended up being shortened to 3.85" on the early K0 with the shorter shocks, which became the more common 3.75" trail with the later 13" long versions. It has the shortest trail of any bike in its class, ever. This lends it a heavier feeling when you are deep in the turn and go to pull it back up: you actually have to pull it back up, while longer-trailed bikes will flip up (and over, if too exhuberant) by pulling the bars into the turn.

The tradeoff is the lighter feeling at lower speeds (if the steering bearings and swingarm bushings are good) that the Big Four always provided, compared to, say, the KZ1000 or the Z1, and especially compared to the BMW, Harley, and Brit bikes of the day.

Today, the 750 is about 100 lbs heavier than its counterparts, not counting HP. This is purely due to the tech involved, but it also provides something that folks like Ilbikes touched on: the CB750/500/550/350F all provide the "old perch" ride, where you sit atop the bike and command it with your body english. Beginning in the late 1970s, you sat "in" the bikes more (the Z1 was one of the first like this), which reduces your authority over the bike's weight, and loses the top hamper that stabilizes them on high-speed straights like US Interstates. These later bikes felt more 'lively', but also fought back when cranked over to the footpegs.

When the monoshocks were born and the ultralight castings of great strength became practical to manufacture (translation: people were willing to pay $5K+ for the bikes, as opposed to $1695 or less), the frame became more rigid and handling naturally improved from that. But, the loss then was the division of bikes into "task machines" where you kinda needed one for touring (Wings, Ventures, Beemers), one for around-town stuff (something nimble with a removable luggage rack and/or tour-pak on the back for errands), and a third one for hotrod riding.

The Fours still provide all 3 functions in one package, with at least 85% of all the other 'types' all built in. Hence, their enduring lives.  :)
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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2012, 09:31:35 PM »
Modern sportbike? can you say peterbuilt? Mack truck man

Still they handle way better than many cruisers.

Honestly? I can corner and handle better than say a V-Max......just can't catch them on the straights.  ;D

V Max The bike I have allways wanted. More than Homer wants a donut But it is in a class of its own. Muscle bike.
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Offline solo 2

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2012, 05:41:13 AM »
I can't wait to see how mine handles. It's the rider, I learned to ride fast on a CB550, then a CB900F...it's all about the body English. I've owned many different sport bikes but I still like to ride the old one's fast, you have to work them. Here's an example...30years on :o I just turned 18, I no longer condone this type of behaviour on city streets BTW ;D

« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 05:46:09 AM by solo 2 »
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Offline KRONUS0100

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2012, 06:43:39 AM »
wellll...my 76 750F has a GL1000 front end, and a 2 inch longer DOHC swing arm.  rides really smooth and is stable in the corners.  can almost toss it around like the GS500E i used to have.  Long hiway rides are a blast.  I have also just removed the comstars and am fitting Kawasaki  mags to it.......16inch rear and 19 front off an 82 KZ750.  cant wait to ride it now.
MATT
current bikes:  1976 CB750F, 1981 GS1100E
bikes owned:1981 GL1100I, 1990 GS500E, 1981 GS850, 1977 and 1979 GS750, 1974 CB750, 1975 CB750, and a 1982 GS750E

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 Handling
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2012, 11:57:53 AM »
I can't wait to see how mine handles. It's the rider, I learned to ride fast on a CB550, then a CB900F...it's all about the body English. I've owned many different sport bikes but I still like to ride the old one's fast, you have to work them.

+1 !

Quote
Here's an example...30years on :o I just turned 18, I no longer condone this type of behaviour on city streets BTW ;D

Mountain roads are easier, less traffic! :D
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Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).