Author Topic: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects  (Read 82416 times)

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #100 on: July 11, 2015, 06:02:56 PM »
Well, not necessarily.  Going to 17 inch tires front and back when the original bike had 19 and 18 will definitely change the geometry already anyway.

Exactly, it will also slightly lower the front of the bike reducing both rake and trail, thats why its important to get it all right, Cal knows this, he's building something similar at the moment.  ;)
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #101 on: July 11, 2015, 06:20:12 PM »
Wheelbase between the 2 bikes is exactly the same at 55.3". Rake and trial for CB is 64/105 and the F3 is 25/94. So you need to now enter the modified CB front end (different offset room stock CB) with 17" tires and the new CBR swing arm into a calculator to determine where you are.

Understand, it may differ from the stock CB, but as it nears the F3 it gets more spry. There's trade off is quickness of steering (more experienced riding) versus too slow trail for dumpy steering. You just have to work the numbers... It may prove beneficial to have Devin cut you some custom offset or use his adjustable offset triple trees to achieve the rake/trail you desire.

Cal,  you can't really compare wheelbases when talking swingarms, the CBR600 has a far more compact engine allowing the use of a longer swingarm, it also has a different swingarm pivot to steering head ratio which has a lot to do with why modern bikes handle far better than the older bikes, as well as numerous differences in rake and trail.... The shorter gsxr front end will bring the front end close to the 600 rake, 1 inch lower equates close to 1 degree of rake, so both would have around 25 degrees of rake, try and keep trail near the 4 inch mark with this set up, especially if you end up with a slightly longer swingarm... With the current parts the front will be close but the rear will be too long, remember that the 500-550 already have a longer arm than the 750's, with their bigger {than the 750} stock trail number, it makes the 500/550 a stable, good handling bike stock... ;)  I'm sure you already know most , if not all of this already... ;)

PS, you posted again while i was writing, looks like you beat me too it... ;)
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Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2015, 06:22:18 PM »
Cal,  you can't really compare wheelbases when talking swingarms, the CBR600 has a far more compact engine allowing the use of a longer swingarm, it also has a different swingarm pivot to steering head ratio which has a lot to do with why modern bikes handle far better than the older bikes, as well as numerous differences in rake and trail.... The shorter gsxr front end will bring the front end close to the 600 rake, 1 inch lower equates close to 1 degree of rake, so both would have around 25 degrees of rake, try and keep trail near the 4 inch mark with this set up, especially if you end up with a slightly longer swingarm... With the current parts the front will be close but the rear will be too long, remember that the 500-550 already have a longer arm than the 750's, with their bigger {than the 750} stock trail number, it makes the 500/550 a stable, good handling bike stock... ;)  I'm sure you already know most , if not all of this already... ;)

PS, you posted again while i was writing, looks like you beat me too it... ;)

Just one correction.  I won't be using a 550 front end.  I'm using a CBR1000RR entire front end.
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2015, 07:59:56 PM »
Cal,  you can't really compare wheelbases when talking swingarms, the CBR600 has a far more compact engine allowing the use of a longer swingarm, it also has a different swingarm pivot to steering head ratio which has a lot to do with why modern bikes handle far better than the older bikes, as well as numerous differences in rake and trail.... The shorter CB1000RR front end will bring the front end close to the 600 rake, 1 inch lower equates close to 1 degree of rake, so both would have around 25 degrees of rake, try and keep trail near the 4 inch mark with this set up, especially if you end up with a slightly longer swingarm... With the current parts the front will be close but the rear will be too long, remember that the 500-550 already have a longer arm than the 750's, with their bigger {than the 750} stock trail number, it makes the 500/550 a stable, good handling bike stock... ;)  I'm sure you already know most , if not all of this already... ;)

PS, you posted again while i was writing, looks like you beat me too it... ;)

Just one correction.  I won't be using a 550 front end.  I'm using a CBR1000RR entire front end.

Yeah, I know...I said GSXR front, should have said CB1000RR   ;)  Fixed it... ;D
750 K2 1000cc
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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2015, 08:09:58 PM »
Ron,

If the math works out (even with a mod) please share your findings.  It could make for an interesting donor for a monoshock-based, boxed style swingarm. There are always people looking for a new hybrid upgrade.

Now get that other motor in the frame and fired!!
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1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2015, 03:11:22 AM »
No doubt.  Unfortunately, it looks like it's going to be almost 2 weeks before I get a chance to get to the bikes due to baseball and family vacation.  But I think I'm definitely going to pick up that swingarm and rear end from the 600.

I have that 500 engine cleaned and sanded and the holes taped up.  I just need to get some more acetone so I can wipe it down one more time and prep it for primer and paint.  I already bench tested that starter and it worked and I put it back into the engine and it turned over fine.  Forks are ready, rims are ready, frame is ready (although I think I'm going to cut some of the extra tabs off before I put the engine in).  Triple tree is painted and I've ordered some All Ballz bearings.  Handle bars are ordered and should arrive this week. 

I think I've decided on the seat pan I'm going to use on the 500 so I need to order it.
http://www.roccitycafe.com/roadster-cafe-racer-seat
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline 2strokeTrush

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #106 on: July 12, 2015, 05:31:32 AM »
Have you seen this guys MonoShock cb500? Maybe some inspiration for ya!



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 350F project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133079.0

500F Project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135660.0

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2015, 05:46:25 AM »
I like that!!! K, Bill
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #108 on: July 12, 2015, 09:29:35 AM »
That looks like a modified stock swingarm (with a brace and shock mount).  I wonder how well it works -- what he did to determine the correct spring rate.  I like the idea, but not so much a fan of the front end being lowered so much that the gaiters are completely compressed.  And don't get me started about the Firestones!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #109 on: July 12, 2015, 09:32:43 AM »
That looks like a modified stock swingarm (with a brace and shock mount).  I wonder how well it works -- what he did to determine the correct spring rate.  I like the idea, but not so much a fan of the front end being lowered so much that the gaiters are completely compressed.  And don't get me started about the Firestones!

Appears the suspension is set up for racing on grass...a "Grass Tracker"!
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Offline 2strokeTrush

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #110 on: July 12, 2015, 09:59:47 AM »

That looks like a modified stock swingarm (with a brace and shock mount).  I wonder how well it works -- what he did to determine the correct spring rate.  I like the idea, but not so much a fan of the front end being lowered so much that the gaiters are completely compressed.  And don't get me started about the Firestones!

He actually sells this monoshock setup as a kit on his website. The front end isn't actually lowered on the gaitors he compressed just the gaitors for looks.  Has allot of cool cafe creations on his website " Kinetic Motorcycles " is his name. Pricey but very nice looking gear.
If You Aint First Your Last!!

 350F project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133079.0

500F Project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135660.0

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2015, 03:18:45 PM »

That looks like a modified stock swingarm (with a brace and shock mount).  I wonder how well it works -- what he did to determine the correct spring rate.  I like the idea, but not so much a fan of the front end being lowered so much that the gaiters are completely compressed.  And don't get me started about the Firestones!

He actually sells this monoshock setup as a kit on his website. The front end isn't actually lowered on the gaitors he compressed just the gaitors for looks.  Has allot of cool cafe creations on his website " Kinetic Motorcycles " is his name. Pricey but very nice looking gear.

The front end sure looks lowered to me.  I can see about 2 inches of fork above the triple tree.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2015, 03:38:26 PM »

That looks like a modified stock swingarm (with a brace and shock mount).  I wonder how well it works -- what he did to determine the correct spring rate.  I like the idea, but not so much a fan of the front end being lowered so much that the gaiters are completely compressed.  And don't get me started about the Firestones!

He actually sells this monoshock setup as a kit on his website. The front end isn't actually lowered on the gaitors he compressed just the gaitors for looks.  Has allot of cool cafe creations on his website " Kinetic Motorcycles " is his name. Pricey but very nice looking gear.

While that bike may look pretty, it is almost completely useless the way it is there. That front IS lowered, look at the fork tops protruding through the triple clamps, those firestone tires are plain dangerous as an all round street tire and should only be used on trailer queen show ponies, it has no front guard of fork brace. He goes to all the trouble of building an adjustable rear suspension, screws with the bikes geometry at the front by lowering it {for looks} , makes it worse by taking the fork brace off, removes the front guard so you can eat road debris as you enjoy your ride, and finishes off with the worst tires in creation... :o  . That bike is just another rolling contradiction, if thats what you like then great but its definitely nothing special, built for looks and would handle like a pig....
750 K2 1000cc
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750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline 2strokeTrush

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2015, 04:09:13 PM »
The front may be lowered, I simply meant its not lowered on the Gaitors causing them to look like that. He did that park for looks only.
If You Aint First Your Last!!

 350F project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133079.0

500F Project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135660.0

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2015, 05:51:32 PM »
The front may be lowered, I simply meant its not lowered on the Gaitors causing them to look like that. He did that park for looks only.

Of course it is, it simply has to be, the distance between the fork leg top and the bottom clamp decreases when you slide the forks through, that compresses the gaitors, put the forks back to stock position and they won't look like that at all... Those forks look to be at least 2 inches through the top clamp, thats 2 inches further the gaitors are compressed....
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline 2strokeTrush

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #115 on: July 12, 2015, 06:58:23 PM »

The front may be lowered, I simply meant its not lowered on the Gaitors causing them to look like that. He did that park for looks only.

Of course it is, it simply has to be, the distance between the fork leg top and the bottom clamp decreases when you slide the forks through, that compresses the gaitors, put the forks back to stock position and they won't look like that at all... Those forks look to be at least 2 inches through the top clamp, thats 2 inches further the gaitors are compressed....
[

That may be and in not doubting you one bit. The video I watched of him at the " hand built motorcycle show " describing the bike, he talks about them saying he liked the look of them that way. That is all.
If You Aint First Your Last!!

 350F project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133079.0

500F Project-http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135660.0

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #116 on: July 13, 2015, 03:23:00 PM »
Ron,

Here are a couple of things you might be interested in for Logan's Reward.

http://albany.craigslist.org/mpo/5100741964.html

http://providence.craigslist.org/mpo/5077721437.html

Charlie
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 03:26:52 PM by oldhatt45 »

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2015, 10:44:13 PM »
Charlie,

FYI - I think Ron already has his modern front and swingarm sourced.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #118 on: July 14, 2015, 03:54:12 AM »
I do.  I have the entire front end from a CBR1000RR in my basement already.  But I do appreciate Charlie being on the lookout for me!



As far as the swingarm, I have spoken with the seller and he's holding it for me until I get back into town at the end of the week.  The photos look good but I want to confirm everything is in good working order.  If it is, then I'm going to pick up that swingarm and rear assembly for the CBR600 RR on Friday.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 03:56:44 AM by Restoration Fan »
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #119 on: July 14, 2015, 04:11:43 AM »
Ron, are you putting twin shock mounts on the swingarm..?  I ask because there are plenty of options as far as swingarms go, also, what size pivot bolt the CBR have..?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 04:28:39 AM by Retro Rocket »
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #120 on: July 14, 2015, 04:25:06 AM »
Ron, are you putting twin shock mounts on the swingarm..?  I ask because there are plenty of options as far as swingarms go, also, what size axle does the CBR have..?
F3 rear axle is (I believe) 20mm. It's not so much an issue though, a Retro as he plans to use the swing arm and rear wheel from the F3. (If you're thinking about CB hub fitment on the F3 arm?)

Actually i meant the pivot bolt, sorry for the confusion...
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #121 on: July 14, 2015, 04:29:20 AM »
Actually i meant the pivot bolt, sorry for the confusion...
Covered that already with him in Reply 110.  ;)

The good news is, Rons got all of us watching him like a hawk, and Bill Benton nearby to untangle any knots Ron happens to weave together  ;D

Cool, is Ron going with twin shocks...? If he is then look at this bike, its a 500/550 racer with a shortened early GSXR750 mono shock arm adapted to twin shock, these arms are a direct bolt in at the pivot, correct width and a relatively simple conversion.... ;)

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,75581.msg844154.html#msg844154
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 04:37:00 AM by Retro Rocket »
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #122 on: July 14, 2015, 04:40:26 AM »
Doubtful if he uses that CBR arm. Time will tell- but from a styling perspective, I would stick with the mono if using modern mags front and rear (personally).

Hmmm, it would be too long for me to use stock, this is what I was touching on earlier.. Look at the link I posted above... ;)  Personally, I would go with 18 inch wheels too, like the 500/550 in the link above...  Anyway, its Ron's bike, I'm sure he'll get it sorted.... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Retro Rocket

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750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline dusterdude

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #124 on: July 14, 2015, 05:57:59 PM »
Cal wrong?,say it aint so!!!!!
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3