Author Topic: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects  (Read 71283 times)

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Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #100 on: July 04, 2015, 05:08:22 am »
Ron - if the MMO doesn't release those rings, switch to Kroil. You can find it at some Home Centers, or always a firearms shop. You won't need nearly as much Kroil as you have MMO floating in those cylinders.

Or... Since you're already down to the block, slide her outside and pour some Kerosene into the cylinders, and touch her off with some heat. The fire will eat the rust, and won't damage the block or other parts at all (remove the rubber o-rings around the studs). Works a treat and should take all of about 15'-60' to get her rotating. Use a breaker bar on the stator side only to rotate the crank.

Ha.  I have thought of this photo you had posted in another thread a couple of times since yesterday morning, Cal.  I didn't know about Kroil though.  I'll go get some of that today.

One interesting thing about the MMO. It looks like cylinders 1 and 4 are the ones that are frozen because the amount of fluid in 2 and 3 has gone down quite a bit over night.  So either we have a very large rat with an appetite for MMO or there was enough of a gap between the piston rings for the fluid to seep down into the bottom end.

Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2015, 06:16:05 am »
Very large rat with MMO appetite seems more plausible...

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #102 on: July 04, 2015, 06:42:26 am »
Ron,

Glad the wife landed safely. An emergency landing is thankfully a rare occurrence.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #103 on: July 04, 2015, 07:45:00 am »
Ron,

Glad the wife landed safely. An emergency landing is thankfully a rare occurrence.

No kidding.  She was coming home from a short 4-day trip to Cairo, Egypt.  The plane received a warning light of a potential fire in the cargo area and they put down in Shannon, Ireland.  She was hoping to get home yesterday to spend some time with Logan before he leaves but she ended up not being able to make a connecting flight to Heathrow in time to circumvent the normal plane route.  Long story short, she is supposed to arrive today at 2 but Logan left a few minutes ago for a 10 day excursion to Costa Rica with his best friend's family.

I told her that I was really glad they landed safely because I haven't yet had a chance to up her life insurance policy like I had been planning to do.  I don't know why, but somehow she didn't find that as humorous as I did.  Go figure.   :o
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #104 on: July 04, 2015, 11:41:32 am »
Ron,

Glad the wife landed safely. An emergency landing is thankfully a rare occurrence.

No kidding.  She was coming home from a short 4-day trip to Cairo, Egypt.  The plane received a warning light of a potential fire in the cargo area and they put down in Shannon, Ireland.  She was hoping to get home yesterday to spend some time with Logan before he leaves but she ended up not being able to make a connecting flight to Heathrow in time to circumvent the normal plane route.  Long story short, she is supposed to arrive today at 2 but Logan left a few minutes ago for a 10 day excursion to Costa Rica with his best friend's family.

I told her that I was really glad they landed safely because I haven't yet had a chance to up her life insurance policy like I had been planning to do.  I don't know why, but somehow she didn't find that as humorous as I did.  Go figure.   :o


I think it's funny what our wives don't think is funny.  I mentioned once that I would buy a Ferrari with the insurance money if she died.  She was not amused!

On another note, I bet Logan will love Costa Rica.  I've been twice and both trips were fantastic, adventure filled, fun trips!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #105 on: July 04, 2015, 12:32:07 pm »
On another note, I bet Logan will love Costa Rica.  I've been twice and both trips were fantastic, adventure filled, fun trips!

I think he will, too.  Especially since they're staying in a 5,000 sq ft villa thats built into a tree on a beach and has a butler.  When I found that out, I told him I was going to stuff him in a closet and go in his place.
Ron

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Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #106 on: July 04, 2015, 01:35:56 pm »
On another note, I bet Logan will love Costa Rica.  I've been twice and both trips were fantastic, adventure filled, fun trips!

I think he will, too.  Especially since they're staying in a 5,000 sq ft villa thats built into a tree on a beach and has a butler.  When I found that out, I told him I was going to stuff him in a closet and go in his place.


Sounds incredible!  Do you know what city or area? 
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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #107 on: July 04, 2015, 03:03:07 pm »

Sounds incredible!  Do you know what city or area?

All I know for sure is that they were flying into San Juan and staying at a Marriott tonight.  Tomorrow, the resort that contains the villa is sending cars to pick them up.  When I asked Logan where they were going in Costa Rica, he shrugged and said, "Costa Rica, Costa Rica".

Apparently it's somewhere close to the zip line they were saying is one of the world's longest because they're planning to go on that.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 03:31:03 pm by Restoration Fan »
Ron

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #108 on: July 11, 2015, 02:42:24 pm »
Got a few questions.  Has anyone ever used a swingarm from a 97 Honda CBR 600F3 on a 550?  I had the guy who had these parts listed on Craiglist measure the width of the swingarm and it APPEARS this will fit on Logan's 550.  I'm in Ft. Myers, FL for the next several days with the baseball team but I'm planning to meet the owner on Friday and bring my 550 frame to see if it will fit. 

One of the things about this swingarm and set up is this swingarm has a mono-shock (shown in 2 photos).  I also want to test and see if that eye will fit on the 550's shock bolt.  Has anyone done one of these conversions?

Shock - top


Shock - bottom


Swingarm






Also, might end up buying these 2 brand new tires from him as well.

Ron

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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #109 on: July 11, 2015, 03:00:32 pm »
Don't know about the swingarm but check the date code on the tires. I'd pass if over 4-5 years old.
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Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #110 on: July 11, 2015, 03:05:06 pm »
The 160 tire will necessitate an offset front sprocket, no big deal..

The mono shock will require a different top mounting from underneath the seat. So I wouldn't worry about it fitting the shock top eye as you'll need to fashion something together anyway.

I think the 600 swing arm is just narrown enough to fit the frame, but you may need to increase the pivot rod hole in the frame to fit the larger diameter pivot bolt.
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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #111 on: July 11, 2015, 03:56:34 pm »
Thanks, Cal.  I like the look of this 600 rear end.  Combine it with the front end from the CBR1000RR I got from Bill and it has the potential to be a nice looking bike if I get the paint, polishing, seat and tank right. 

This is for the second bike though.  First order of business when I get back is to paint the 500 engine and get it in the frame. 

Of course I just found out that I get back Thursday from south Florida and we will drive back down to Amelia Island next weekend for a family vacation for a week.  All this travel is messing up my wrenching time.
Ron

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #112 on: July 11, 2015, 04:52:57 pm »
Its quite easy to make any swingarm fit , its also easy to have some width machined off the sprocket carrier to help with chain alignment, there's usually plenty of room to do this, I've done it on a GSXR swingarm.  The problem with stock monoshock swing arms is that they are all far too long, I have a GSXR1100 swingarm in a 750/4 {F1} frame , I had the monoshock section removed and the arm shortened, it was around 6 inches longer than stock, this completely changes the way the bike handles for the worse, it also defeats the purpose of putting a modern front on, A modern front end,  if set up properly, will dramatically improve handling, whilst the extra long rear will slow down steering response at the rear and make the bike handle like a pig. I also have a gs1100 alloy arm, which is a twin shock arm, currently its around 3.5 inches too long, I'm having that shortened at the pivot end in the near future..  Just saying, if you want or expect the bike to handle as good or better than stock then what I've outlined here is whats needed, if you are just building it for looks then ignore what i've said, remember also, a longer swingarm also changes the wheels relation ship to the rear guard as well, so sometimes, no matter what you intend to do, there will be need for modification.... ;)
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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #113 on: July 11, 2015, 05:09:09 pm »
Its quite easy to make any swingarm fit , its also easy to have some width machined off the sprocket carrier to help with chain alignment, there's usually plenty of room to do this, I've done it on a GSXR swingarm.  The problem with stock monoshock swing arms is that they are all far too long, I have a GSXR1100 swingarm in a 750/4 {F1} frame , I had the monoshock section removed and the arm shortened, it was around 6 inches longer than stock, this completely changes the way the bike handles for the worse, it also defeats the purpose of putting a modern front on, A modern front end,  if set up properly, will dramatically improve handling, whilst the extra long rear will slow down steering response at the rear and make the bike handle like a pig. I also have a gs1100 alloy arm, which is a twin shock arm, currently its around 3.5 inches too long, I'm having that shortened at the pivot end in the near future..  Just saying, if you want or expect the bike to handle as good or better than stock then what I've outlined here is whats needed, if you are just building it for looks then ignore what i've said, remember also, a longer swingarm also changes the wheels relation ship to the rear guard as well, so sometimes, no matter what you intend to do, there will be need for modification.... ;)

No, if it's my son riding it, I want it to handle well.  So how do you shorten it?  Have them cut a section out of the middle and weld it back?  I would think you wouldn't want to mess either end because you have the pivot bolt going through the front end and you have the rear axle going through the other end.
Ron

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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #114 on: July 11, 2015, 05:36:40 pm »
I think you could section the length of the swingarm closer to the tail.  You would want to reinforce the arm where it is sectioned, however, to preserve structural integrity, lest it fold in half at the section joint.  You could reinforce it by welding an outer sleeve at the joining point.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #115 on: July 11, 2015, 05:44:25 pm »
Its quite easy to make any swingarm fit , its also easy to have some width machined off the sprocket carrier to help with chain alignment, there's usually plenty of room to do this, I've done it on a GSXR swingarm.  The problem with stock monoshock swing arms is that they are all far too long, I have a GSXR1100 swingarm in a 750/4 {F1} frame , I had the monoshock section removed and the arm shortened, it was around 6 inches longer than stock, this completely changes the way the bike handles for the worse, it also defeats the purpose of putting a modern front on, A modern front end,  if set up properly, will dramatically improve handling, whilst the extra long rear will slow down steering response at the rear and make the bike handle like a pig. I also have a gs1100 alloy arm, which is a twin shock arm, currently its around 3.5 inches too long, I'm having that shortened at the pivot end in the near future..  Just saying, if you want or expect the bike to handle as good or better than stock then what I've outlined here is whats needed, if you are just building it for looks then ignore what i've said, remember also, a longer swingarm also changes the wheels relation ship to the rear guard as well, so sometimes, no matter what you intend to do, there will be need for modification.... ;)

No, if it's my son riding it, I want it to handle well.  So how do you shorten it?  Have them cut a section out of the middle and weld it back?  I would think you wouldn't want to mess either end because you have the pivot bolt going through the front end and you have the rear axle going through the other end.

With my GS1100 arm, I am having the pivot section removed and shortened at that end, the GSXR1100J arm, I had shortened at the rear end and new slots milled in for the axle , it really depends on the swingarm being used, and it will cost a bit to have it done well. MotoGPwerks have really nice Calfab alloy swingarms made for our bikes, {not cheap but beautiful}, I have one here for the 750 but they are made for the 500/550 as well. Personally, I would never cut and shut a swingarm in the middle, I would never trust it again.. .  There's a little bit more to building a special than just bolting on cool parts, all motorcycles are designed to handle as a complete unit, any modification to either front or back, will effect how the bike handles, some simple modifications, especially on the front end, can have quite dire consequences, reducing rake and trail, without knowing why it all works, can make a good bike a dangerous pile of parts, not trying to alarm you here, but theres a bit more to modifying a bike if you want it to perform properly... ;)
 Here is the motogpwerks swingarm..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-CB550K-CB500-ALLOY-SWINGARM-RSD-CALFAB-USA-AHM-CAL-FAB-RACE-/111707075149
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Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #116 on: July 11, 2015, 05:47:46 pm »
Ron - just measure the CBR swing arm from pivot bolt to start of axle slot and compare that to the stock 550. You can use a rake/trail calculator to compare the new modern changes front and rear coupled with 17" tires to determine your final geometry. I don't think you'll be far off from a desirable setup.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #117 on: July 11, 2015, 05:55:34 pm »
Ron - just measure the CBR swing arm from pivot bolt to start of axle slot and compare that to the stock 550. You can use a rake/trail calculator to compare the new modern changes front and rear coupled with 17" tires to determine your final geometry. I don't think you'll be far off from a desirable setup.

Someone here already had a CBR600 swingarm , I can't remember exactly, but I think  it was around 3-4 inches longer from memory..?
My point was that this isn't a simple bolt on accessory, changes will have to be made, or custom parts used to achieve proper geometry... ;)
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Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #118 on: July 11, 2015, 05:59:55 pm »
Well, not necessarily.  Going to 17 inch tires front and back when the original bike had 19 and 18 will definitely change the geometry already anyway.
Ron

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #119 on: July 11, 2015, 06:02:56 pm »
Well, not necessarily.  Going to 17 inch tires front and back when the original bike had 19 and 18 will definitely change the geometry already anyway.

Exactly, it will also slightly lower the front of the bike reducing both rake and trail, thats why its important to get it all right, Cal knows this, he's building something similar at the moment.  ;)
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Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #120 on: July 11, 2015, 06:07:47 pm »
Wheelbase between the 2 bikes is exactly the same at 55.3". Rake and trial for CB is 64/105 and the F3 is 25/94. So you need to now enter the modified CB front end (different offset room stock CB) with 17" tires and the new CBR swing arm into a calculator to determine where you are.

Understand, it may differ from the stock CB, but as it nears the F3 it gets more spry. There's trade off is quickness of steering (more experienced riding) versus too slow trail for dumpy steering. You just have to work the numbers... It may prove beneficial to have Devin cut you some custom offset or use his adjustable offset triple trees to achieve the rake/trail you desire.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #121 on: July 11, 2015, 06:09:41 pm »
One other thing, you will notice the F3 swing arm is mounted at a different angle than the stock CB. This reduces the overall wheelbase, and cheats the trail numbers. So the swing arm may be longer in the CB orientation, just need to be aware of this. Who thought this was plug and play?  ;)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #122 on: July 11, 2015, 06:20:12 pm »
Wheelbase between the 2 bikes is exactly the same at 55.3". Rake and trial for CB is 64/105 and the F3 is 25/94. So you need to now enter the modified CB front end (different offset room stock CB) with 17" tires and the new CBR swing arm into a calculator to determine where you are.

Understand, it may differ from the stock CB, but as it nears the F3 it gets more spry. There's trade off is quickness of steering (more experienced riding) versus too slow trail for dumpy steering. You just have to work the numbers... It may prove beneficial to have Devin cut you some custom offset or use his adjustable offset triple trees to achieve the rake/trail you desire.

Cal,  you can't really compare wheelbases when talking swingarms, the CBR600 has a far more compact engine allowing the use of a longer swingarm, it also has a different swingarm pivot to steering head ratio which has a lot to do with why modern bikes handle far better than the older bikes, as well as numerous differences in rake and trail.... The shorter gsxr front end will bring the front end close to the 600 rake, 1 inch lower equates close to 1 degree of rake, so both would have around 25 degrees of rake, try and keep trail near the 4 inch mark with this set up, especially if you end up with a slightly longer swingarm... With the current parts the front will be close but the rear will be too long, remember that the 500-550 already have a longer arm than the 750's, with their bigger {than the 750} stock trail number, it makes the 500/550 a stable, good handling bike stock... ;)  I'm sure you already know most , if not all of this already... ;)

PS, you posted again while i was writing, looks like you beat me too it... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #123 on: July 11, 2015, 06:22:18 pm »
Cal,  you can't really compare wheelbases when talking swingarms, the CBR600 has a far more compact engine allowing the use of a longer swingarm, it also has a different swingarm pivot to steering head ratio which has a lot to do with why modern bikes handle far better than the older bikes, as well as numerous differences in rake and trail.... The shorter gsxr front end will bring the front end close to the 600 rake, 1 inch lower equates close to 1 degree of rake, so both would have around 25 degrees of rake, try and keep trail near the 4 inch mark with this set up, especially if you end up with a slightly longer swingarm... With the current parts the front will be close but the rear will be too long, remember that the 500-550 already have a longer arm than the 750's, with their bigger {than the 750} stock trail number, it makes the 500/550 a stable, good handling bike stock... ;)  I'm sure you already know most , if not all of this already... ;)

PS, you posted again while i was writing, looks like you beat me too it... ;)

Just one correction.  I won't be using a 550 front end.  I'm using a CBR1000RR entire front end.
Ron

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Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #124 on: July 11, 2015, 07:59:56 pm »
Cal,  you can't really compare wheelbases when talking swingarms, the CBR600 has a far more compact engine allowing the use of a longer swingarm, it also has a different swingarm pivot to steering head ratio which has a lot to do with why modern bikes handle far better than the older bikes, as well as numerous differences in rake and trail.... The shorter CB1000RR front end will bring the front end close to the 600 rake, 1 inch lower equates close to 1 degree of rake, so both would have around 25 degrees of rake, try and keep trail near the 4 inch mark with this set up, especially if you end up with a slightly longer swingarm... With the current parts the front will be close but the rear will be too long, remember that the 500-550 already have a longer arm than the 750's, with their bigger {than the 750} stock trail number, it makes the 500/550 a stable, good handling bike stock... ;)  I'm sure you already know most , if not all of this already... ;)

PS, you posted again while i was writing, looks like you beat me too it... ;)

Just one correction.  I won't be using a 550 front end.  I'm using a CBR1000RR entire front end.

Yeah, I know...I said GSXR front, should have said CB1000RR   ;)  Fixed it... ;D
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.