Author Topic: 1972 CB350 For the Daughter (Read 71240 times)

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2016, 02:23:40 PM »

Quote from: Bankerdanny on July 27, 2016, 01:11:02 PM

You can always send it to Noblehops for vapor blasting.

Very good idea! No danger of getting material stuck in the oil passages.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #26 on:** July 27, 2016, 02:24:11 PM »

Quote from: Harsh on July 27, 2016, 12:23:03 PM

My daughter spent a couple of days scrubbing it down. She said she hated me when I kept finding pockets of grease that she needed to remove before we could bead blast.
They do have a very large blaster that works phenomenally well. It is like a fire hose with blast media coming out of it. Way too rough for an engine, but will work perfectly for the frame and some other stuff. I used it on the inside of a fender that was badly rusted and had the chrome flaking off. That thing is clean as a whistle now.

Probably good for cleaning ship propellers!

Harsh · « **Reply #27 on:** July 27, 2016, 03:19:58 PM »

Sending the parts off would be nice, but I don't even want to contemplate what shipping would cost.

Bankerdanny · « **Reply #28 on:** July 27, 2016, 03:43:01 PM »

As long as you don't go overnight shipping shouldn't be too outrageous.

Harsh · « **Reply #29 on:** July 27, 2016, 03:47:32 PM »

You must not have shipped anything of size or weight lately. The cost of shipping an entire engine, sans internals, would be very expensive.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #30 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:54:00 PM »

Freight shipping is the better option for an engine.

DickL · « **Reply #31 on:** July 28, 2016, 03:22:22 AM »

Sounds like a good trade

Harsh · « **Reply #32 on:** July 28, 2016, 07:54:40 AM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 27, 2016, 04:40:23 PM

Sounds like a rendezvous at Redline is coming up. Is that time again? Dang, time flies...

Cal your generosity is truly amazing. I would be more than happy to rendezvous at Redline with you. Just let me know when you are free.

Harsh · « **Reply #33 on:** August 03, 2016, 06:06:32 AM »

Fit the rear comstar wheel the other day. The 350 swingarm is a fair bit narrower than the 400. As such the spacers for the 400 are longer. I first tried to use the stock spacers for the 350, but the nut would bottom out on the axle before things were tight. I swapped the spacer on the sprocket side which was about 1/4" longer and looked to be about what I needed. Torqued everything down and the wheel looks pretty well centered. Well some quick measurements and a plumb bob tell me the wheel isn't centered. It is about 3/16" off. I have a longer piece of the spacer material, but I am not going to cut anything until I ensure the sprockets align. Which means I have to finish rebuilding the engine.

I may have run into another issue. I am having trouble finding someone that makes a 520 rear sprocket for the comstar wheel. I want to run an O/X ring chain but that will cause a clearance issue behind the front sprocket. There is a neutral switch and wiring that runs through there and a 520 chain and sprocket setup would alleviate the clearance issues. I sent out emails yesterday to Rebel Gears, Sunstar, JT, and Sprocket Specialists inquiring about either getting one made or if they have one already and it just isn't listed. Sunstar replied and said they can't do it. Some places list a sprocket for the T1 but not the T2, but i don't know if there is a difference between them. If it comes down to it I will see about getting the stock sprocket I have cut down.

Harsh · « **Reply #34 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:07:01 AM »

I received an email from Sunstar last night, they can't make the sprocket.

Just received a call from Sprocket Specialists who can make it. The T1 sprocket, which they have in stock, has the same dimensions I provided. It just doesn't use the center steel spacer ring that the T2 does. To keep everything copacetic with mounting all they said they would have to do was cut the teeth and a bit below where the chain rides down to 520. Which is pretty much what I thought. Cost is only an additional $10.

Harsh · « **Reply #35 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:44:21 AM »

So I was doing some cleaning to the wiring harness and connectors when I remembered about the cable that runs from the starter solenoid to the starter. When we took the engine out there was a big glob of caulk on it. I decided to pull off the glob and see what was underneath. Looks like I will be getting a new cable.

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Harsh · « **Reply #36 on:** August 03, 2016, 02:23:09 PM »

Moving right along. Working on the rear wheel in regards to the spacer size needed to center the wheel and ensure the sprockets are aligned. There was another guy who put comstars on his 350 and said they fit up just fine. However, based on my findings I don't believe his wheel was centered. I am willing to bet that he probably just eyeballed it and thought he was good. Well that doesn't really work for me.

Leveled the bike and took some measurements and found the center of the frame. Made a mark and tied my plumb bob to it.
Stock wheel shows to be centered in the frame.

With the comstar wheel on using the 350 spacers and the axle nut tightened until it bottoms out on the axle there is a gap.

It was hard to get in there and get a truly accurate measurement, but it was real close to 1/8". So I stacked a couple of washers I had and fit the wheel again. This time with good results. The axle nut tightened fully and the wheel was centered.

Now for the big test. Do the sprockets line up? I got my trusty straight edge and laid it next to both sprockets. There are no gaps between the sprockets and straight edge and the wheel is centered. I am calling this a success. Now I just need to get one of the longer spacers I have cut down to the correct size for my application. By my calculations the spacer size on the right side should be 37mm (mine actually measures 37.25mm)

Harsh · « **Reply #37 on:** August 03, 2016, 06:59:10 PM »

Too long or too short? Longer would allow it to tighten enough and still install the cotter pin, but would put the wheel slightly off center. However, is .25mm truly that much in this situation. The same could be said for being too short. Which could also be compounded with bottoming out the nut. I have thought about adding a washer to the right side between the axle bolt and chain tensioner on the outside of the swingarm to give me a little bit more room from the axle nut from bottoming out.

NobleHops · « **Reply #38 on:** August 03, 2016, 07:08:18 PM »

Quote from: Harsh on July 27, 2016, 03:47:32 PM

You must not have shipped anything of size or weight lately. The cost of shipping an entire engine, sans internals, would be very expensive.

I'll guess about $70 each way, with my discount.

Thank you guys for the suggestion, Harsh, I'm at your service, even if just for advice.

Harsh · « **Reply #39 on:** August 05, 2016, 02:03:30 PM »

Well today is witchcraft and voodoo day. I am going to clean and rebuild the carbs. I bought extra o-rings when I built the wife's bike so I should be able to get these back together today providing the internals are good to go.

When you pop the top this is what you see. Nothing spectacular, just a spring and diaphragm. Those come out fairly easy, but since it has been a while since they were opened you have to be gently with the diaphragm so you don't tear it.

Inside are these parts. I don't really think it is necessary to take it apart, but since I am in there and want to make sure everything is nice and clean so off they go.

Now flip the carb over and pull the float bowl. This is where it usually gets nasty and stinky. Old gas reeks.

Pull the primary and secondary jets. They took some work to get out. The o-rings were damn near welded in there.

Pull the float and bracket for the float need and seat.

At the top you have the float needle and seat. Then below that is the secondary and then the main emulsion tubes. Underneath the black rubber piece is the pilot jet. The emulsion tubes have to be tapped out from the other side even tough it looks like the main can be unscrewed. It doesn't and if you try, you will rip off the tabs. I use a soft wooden dowel to tap them out. Sometimes they don't like to come out very easily, but luckily I didn't have much of an issue. After they are out you just have to inspect the tips carefully to make sure they didn't get damaged during the removal process. Pry up the rubber plug and unscrew the pilot jet.

Everything cleaned and ready for assembly. The emulsion tubes have tiny holes in them. Just about every hole was clogged and the holes in the pilot jet were clogged as well. The main and secondary jets were really restricted as well with built up varnish and gunk.
Unfortunately, I forgot that I had to use one of the o-rings from the extra sets I bought on the wife's bike because I accidentally slung one across the garage when I was installing it. Also, I didn't have any spare o-rings for the idle mixture or the float bowl drain screws so I will have to order those as well.

I may have an issue though. While I was cleaning the carb bodies I noticed they are not the same carbs. One is a 722A, which is correct for the bike. The other is a 726A, which I have no idea where it is from. They look identical and the only difference I found between them was the main jet size, which could have been changed by a previous owner. I put the correct size main jet back in when I assembled it though. Additionally, I see a lot of references that group the two together. I posted a thread in the carb section on the Honda Twins site inquiring about it.

Harsh · « **Reply #40 on:** August 08, 2016, 03:00:25 PM »

Tried my hand at parkerizing today. I have not been 100% satisfied with treating the bolts and fasteners with Prep&Etch. After talking with the guy that supplied my chemicals he (at times) uses something called Jasco to treat the hardware for rust prior to parkerizing. I looked his stuff up and it is manufactured by the same company just sold under a different name. Below is the first batch I did. I think it turned out pretty damn good. The second set didn't fizz nearly as much. However, there was a difference in how I did them. The first batch had basically two days to dry before putting them in the parkerizing (manganese) solution. The second set I pulled out of the P&E today and put it into the parkerizing solution. I will see tomorrow how the two differ in color. If you prefer a lighter gray color he there is also a zinc based product vice the manganese.

I really think (hope) the bolts are going to pop against the silver lower half of the engine even if all you will see is the head of the bolt.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #41 on:** August 08, 2016, 04:23:45 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on August 08, 2016, 04:11:07 PM

Look great, but, Parkerizing isn't very weather resistant. And your climate would be particularly harsh (forgive the pun) on them. Are you thinking it will survive the salt air?

I've seen Parkerizing on weapons. I wonder if it scrapes off when coming in direct contact with metal (when screwing in the bolts). I bet Harsh's knows this stuff better than the rest of us, since he's seen a fair share of Parkerizing with military weapons.

Harsh · « **Reply #42 on:** August 09, 2016, 04:27:08 AM »

I figured if it was used on weapons during WWII to protect them from rust then it should work for some hardware. I have a buddy in DC that has used it for years on his bike bits and doesn't seem to have an issue. We shall see...

Harsh · « **Reply #43 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:11:21 AM »

Sorry for the lack of updates. Just been doing a lot of cleaning to the hardware. The parkerizing is turning out good so far.

I was able to get the paint stripped off of the wheels. Getting the paint that was on the inside of them off was a major pain. Looking at the front wheel I know now why they were painted. It had started to rust.

I was also able to get back to the industrial facility and use there big blaster. This thing uses a fire hose to shoot out the media. It made quick work of hte frame, swingarm, and a few other bits.

Inside of fender before.

The parts after blasting.

The frame has a couple of holes in, but I really don't think it will be an issue. The surrounding metal feels solid.

We decided we didn't want to powdercoat the lower fork tubes. We wanted to leave them a bit natural. So today I put a sisal mop on the bench grinder and with some black cutting polish made short work of them. I still need to go over them to even them out, but for the most part they are done.

Almost forgot to take a before pic.

At this point she is trying to decide on colors. We have a bunch of prospects, but finding the right combo is a work in progress.

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #44 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:45:30 AM »

What are you using? Gun blue?

Harsh · « **Reply #45 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:48:31 AM »

Using for what? Are you asking about the parkerizing?

Harsh · « **Reply #46 on:** August 19, 2016, 10:43:15 AM »

So the wheels looked good from afar, but far from good when viewed even remotely close. I was pretty impressed how the sisal mop cut through the oxidation and general nastiness on the fork lowers. And since I just can't leave things alone I decided to give it a try to the wheels. First I needed to remove the tires. I swung up to Cycle Gear, but they wanted $30 to just pull them off and I had to take the old tires with me. Never mind, I will do it myself.

It took a little bit to figure out how to position the wheel in order to get into some of the nooks, but I figured it out. Unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to do the inner lip unless I figure out another way to position the wheel against the mop because the shank on the buffer makes contact with the wheel legs. So maybe just the outer lip will be shiny. I am good with that. No I am not. I ordered some sisal mops that attach to a drill so I can get into the hard to reach areas.

You can see the part I have polished and the part I have not. The parts of the wheels I haven't polished look A LOT worse in person.

I have a pretty good idea what I want to do on the tank for an accent. Not sure what to do with the side covers yet though. My daughter and I are going to go to a few dealerships to look at some colors. We have found a few that we like, but want to see them in person. I know which one I like the most and feel would look the best overall, but she may have a different opinion.

Harsh · « **Reply #47 on:** August 27, 2016, 01:28:20 PM »

Just about done with the wheels. I had to order some bits for my dremel to get in the corners since the buffer wheel can't.

Finished the forks today. They came out a bit shinier than I wanted, but oh well. I may have run into an issue using the CB400Tii front end. Why I didn't measure before hand is beyond me, but I read a few places that others had simply swapped them onto their 350's without issue so I didn't bother. Well the 400 forks are pretty close to 1.75" longer than the 350's. I can't just raise them through the triples because the top fork caps are used to secure the top triple in place.

About the only things that jumped in my head is to raise them in the triples and use a spacer to take up the space. Or I could put a set of clipons in there.. Either way I am not sure how it would look.

NobleHops · « **Reply #48 on:** August 27, 2016, 02:18:05 PM »

Everything looks amazing. Get some grey scotch bright and burnish those stanchions with WD40, will make the finish satiny.

Nice job!

Harsh · « **Reply #49 on:** August 28, 2016, 10:05:15 AM »

Well using the 400 top triple is out. I forgot that the hole for the fork tubes is smaller than the tubes themselves. The fork tubes sit on the underside of the triple and the fork caps secure everything together. The hole in the triple is 29mm and the forks are 33mm.

So I put the 350 triples on the tubes and raised the tubes the approximate amount. I was worried that the width of the triples might be different so fitting the wheel could be an issue. Slid the 400 triple over the top of the 350 triple and they appeared to be the same. However, to make sure I mounted the wheel up. Then added set of clipons to get a guestimate of how it might look. I used my spare set from the Triumph which are for 50mm forks, but it might not look too bad with a properly sized set.

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Author Topic: 1972 CB350 For the Daughter (Read 71240 times)