Topic: Jakal cb550 project

[Darren Jakal]

Hi Everyone,

I just joined this site as I've recently picked up an abused and abandoned 78 cb550 that I am going to take on as a low budget, slightly modified commuter.

This site has already been very useful in understanding what I am dealing with, so I want to thank all contributors for their efforts.

Darren Jakal

[Darren Jakal]

I’ve seen this bike parked up against a fence in someone’s backyard since I moved into this neighbourhood 3 years ago. About 3 weeks ago I was riding down the alley when I saw two people talking at the garage where the bike was located. I asked about it and if it was for sale and long story short was pushing it back to my place the next day.

Ugo, the old guy who sold it to me, didn’t know much about it. He was a bike guy with a garage full of big cruisers and he said someone dropped it off at his place roughly 20 years ago. He knew that it was bought at an auction in a small town north of here, but other than that not much. He did mention that something was up with “the chain”.

So, I began to take it apart to get to know what I was getting into. One of the first things I noticed was that the rear tire did not seem centred on the bike. I started to think that it might have been in a wreck and started to look for impact sites or other signs of a crash (the front fender has a good dent directly below the headset and I was wondering how hard would this be to do, I mean can these things dive so deep that the fender can hit the headset?).

This site has been very useful in answering some questions and I was soon running string lines to try and understand what was going on. First thing I did was pull the rear wheel and swap the spacers on the axle. This seemed to move the tire in the right direction and line up the chain much better (remember Ugo told me about the chain). I thought I had it all centred but something was still not right, so I took off the wheel again and put it back on without the spacers. I aligned everything again and thought I had it centred, but the sprockets didn’t line up with where I had the wheel. I redid my work and had the wheel centred and the sprockets lined up and then looked again at the spacers (there are three with one that that can only fit into the chain side and two others, a long and short one). Where the wheel was on the axle was pretty much exactly the length of the spacers so I put them back in and everything aligned with centre and the sprockets lined up.

Then I took off the front fender and realized that the front wheel wasn’t centred (found some info from Hondaman about this so I’m not worried). Anyway, I have been stringing line and measuring things (like distance between centres of the swing arm pivot and rear axle when pushed up tight in the drop outs), and for the most part things are looking OK except for the position of the rear tire in respect to the rear of the bike and the axle location in respect to the alignment marks stamped on the drop outs. The rear wheel really looks (and depending on where I measure) to be about 15 millimetres further from the chain side when compared to the shock mount locations and the very rear end of the frame.

So, is this normal? Is this for making more room for the chain or am I being deceived.

I guess I should post these questions in the SOHC/ 4 Bikes section.

Cheers, Darren

[70CB750]

Welcome, Darren. Cant help, never touched 550.

[Darren Jakal]

Hey, thanks for the welcome and replies. I'll make sure the bearings are right and I'm taking my time to understand what will need to be done before I jump to far into it (I've learned patience in my old age).

It's like an archeological dig, but it's dismantling a bike to discover its past. I can only wonder what has been done to it over the past 38 years and as I take it apart I can start to put a picture together.

It was bought at auction in the early 90's. Was it a police auction and it was stolen, I don't know. I know someone had the rear wheel off at one time and that there was probably something going on with the electrical (all kinds of questionable repairs with stator and cover missing). But I kind of think it's mainly just the one bike and no one has really done any serious mechanical work or alterations (so probably not a mismatched swing arm).

I also think it's very low milage and the use it's seen has been short term abuse (although I can't find any frame dings or dents the front fender and right side engine case cover has some dings). The drum brake pads are only lightly worn and and the foot pegs look almost new. All the fins are intact and because it's Canada it was at most driven for 4 months a year for a max of maybe 12 years or so (and this would be a lot of riding for that time period (78 to say 90) in these parts).

Anyway I want to reuse as much of it as possible, but spend some time/money on steering bearings upgrades and maybe a Hondaman swingarm set-up (although I work in a fabrication shop and could probably make brass bushings I don't have the experience or knowledge of WHAT to make for the swingarm that someone like Hondaman would know - I don't mind paying for knowledge and experience and it seems a bargain for what you get).

I had apart the carbs to clean and refurbish and realized that the choke felts were in pretty rough shape. This gave me a chance to drop by the local old motorcycle shop in town and get to see another side of life (this is my first bike project). Seems like these felts are hard to come by and they were a bit astonished that I had pulled the carbs apart. They just strip and ultrasonic clean, but where's the fun in that. Anyway, the old carbs that were in the used pile were as bad as mine, so I got to thinking about alternatives and found that brass grommets can be refitted to make a not bad seal. I put a light spring between the carbs to keep them in position and they don't interfere with the choke movement. Not sure how well they work and if this is even a good idea, but we'll see.

Thanks again, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Cleaned up the carbs, reassembled with backyard choke felt upgrades.

I'm impressed with the builds I see on this site, beautiful rides. Mine is not going to impress anyone. A budget return to the road of a bike I've always wanted.

I'm going to pull the frame off the engine soon (the lay it in the grass method) and I'm adapting an engine stand (thanks to everyone for their ideas shared here).

I've found a post the provides the distance between centres for the rear motor mounts of the 750 and was wondering if anyone had an accurate number for the 550?

It looks like 195 mm to me but that's measuring withe the engine in the bike and the bike behind the garage in an awkward place (once I get the engine out I can get it all in the garage).

Thanks for any help! Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Hi everyone,

Excited to see other 550 builds on here. I have the engine out and a rolling frame in the garage. I'll make brackets to fit the engine stand soon.

The rear wheel has been really bugging me and after much messing around and searching this site I've concluded that the rear hub (probably the whole wheel really) is from another year 550 (mine is 78K). Anyone tell what it is and what spacer dimensions would work? I can measure pretty accurately, but if there is some factory # that would set it up right I would appreciate knowing it.

Cheers, Darren

[Scott S]

 That does look like the earlier backing plate. It shouldn't be a problem running that wheel/brake combo as long as you have the correct axle spacers.

 I have a nice set of side covers that'll fit that bike (I also have a nice set of 4-4 pipes, but don't know how in the world I'd ship something like that).

[Chappy]

Nice work on the carbs.

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks for the offer Scott. Not sure what the final plan is for this bike. All I know is that I will keep as much of the bike stock if it's within tolerance. I'll spend the budget on handling (taper bearing for the triple and brass swing arm bushings, suspension upgrades, brakes, tires and then aesthetics). This is a low budget revival and I'll do all the work myself so I'm giving myself plenty of time.

By stringing the bike and measuring various points on the frame I figured out where I would put the rear wheel and then measured with some inside calipers to within a hair of 44 mm .

" 'K' models use a 44mm collar on the brake side and a 31mm collar on the sprocket side"

I read the above in a post on rear spacers for the 550 (from Jonda500) so I'll make a 44 and 31 and see if that works.

And thanks for the compliment on the carbs Chappy. They turned out really well and I've reused pretty much everything except some orings. I'll bench test for leaks to see if that's good enough.

[Darren Jakal]

Finished the engine stand using some aluminum left over from another project and a base unit from princess auto. I looked at lots of idea from here and want to thank those contributes for their efforts.

I decided to try and keep the brackets tight to the inside to allow lots of side access and although I'm not planning to crack the case I left myself the option of cradling the case using some solid aluminum 1" extension bars that I can make attachments for depending on the job. I used some solid 1"x 1.5" aluminum to make uprights that have 4 different places to put the extension bars. I'm thinking I could also make tool trays or part holders that could bolt or clamp to the uprights.

Anyway, engine is on the stand and the bike is in the garage.

Anyone know what these BBBBBB stamps could mean? On the lower half or the case on the back.

Cheers, Darren

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Anyone know what these BBBBBB stamps could mean? On the lower half or the case on the back.

Cheers, Darren

Bearing sizes in the crank case.

[Darren Jakal]

[/quote]

Bearing sizes in the crank case.
[/quote]

Thanks Fan!

[Darren Jakal]

I've been pealing back the layers that make up the history of this bike and by judging by what I'm seeing there may be as little as 5-10k km on this thing.

This can be the story for a Canadian prairie bike. A few rides at the acreage each summer for some lucky couple (the two tier seat with backrest and sissy bar give it away) and then stolen one drunken autumn party by a townie and wrecked (the ding in the tank the new paint is trying to hide, the beat out timing cover, broken bolt boss and faint graze on some fins, combined with the ding on the fender right below the headset).

Sold at auction because the bike was (maybe) 12 years old and why not take the insurance money since they didn't ride much anyway. A haft hearted attempt at a resurrection (different rear wheel, missing generator parts and cover) and then left for dead in a back alley until someone comes along to do the right thing.

Anyway I've been preparing for the "swing arm bushings" and I know that they need to be replaced and that I might need someone like Hondaman if they are in rough shape but the thing is they are tighter than... tight (that rear is tight, no play but rotation around the axis but I don't know the state of the original bushings as I'm not digging them out until I'm ready to put something in).

So, for someone like me that wants to do a bike once and ride it forever what do you do?

I'm thinking about nickel plating the swing arm, but when? Before or after doing the bushings? Do I plate and then make custom bushings to fit inside? Or do you cover the bearing surfaces, plate and then insert bushings?

I've plated before and have made bushings before, but I've never plated something that then needed bushings (same with the shock mount bushings that I hear can be a disaster).

Anyway, thanks for any help, this place is great!

Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Hey calj737,

Swing arm moves well and is tight in that I can't get any unwanted motion. I pumped it full of grease and it would be ridable, but I now know the original bushings need to go.

I want the toughest finish on the underside I can get. It's Canada, so it will be ridden when it's nice, because when it's not nice you don't ride motorbikes. What do you suggest for best finish for long term?

Any opinion on where to get good bushings to turn down? I can buy oilite, but it's not cheap so a good bushing for the right price would be great. I wonder if Hondaman would sell just bushings (oversized to turn down). I should ask him.

Anyway thanks again for your help!
Darren

[70CB750]

Did you check kenosha_kid on ebay for bushings?

Bushings can be purchased from McMasterCarr too, if you are able to adapt them for your need.

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks for replies calj and 70CB750,

My understanding is that the bushings that are in there are made of powdered steel (or something like that) and that eventually these bushings will be trouble as two similar metals are not appropriate for wearing surfaces (I don't want to redo a thing if I can).

I can turn down an existing bushing but in my mind (I'm NOT a machinist but have an engine lathe with digital readout) making a new one from stock is almost easier when it comes to chucking properly. Inside reaming or boring would be simple but turning the outside of a top hat bushing makes it a bit more difficult (for me anyway, unless there are tricks and in this day and age with google I may find a way, like making a sleeve to keep the bushing straight and turning on centre).

BTW what is the powdercoat method? Powdercoat and then install bushing to fit the powdercoat or do you take it back to the original surface (or protect it from being powdercoated in the first place)? What about the shock mount bushings? They sound worse.

Thanks again for any help!
Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks for chiming in calj,

Yea making a bushing is not hard, as I mentioned I've made them before. What I've not done and what I thought would be more difficult is to turn down the OD of an existing top hat bushing. How do you chuck it without making a jig.

I figure I could make an inner sleeve with a lip that the bushing goes over that is then sandwiched between an outer sleeve (a blind hole sleeve) that is held in place with a centre in the tailstock. So making a new one is about as easy as turning down an existing one as you have a lot more stock to chuck when making a new one and you don't have to make a jig.

Anyway, I spoke with platers and powdercoaters today and was told by both that they can plug anything that needs to remain in tolerance, so I may just buy some existing bushings mentioned here (although it doesn't sound like he ships to Canada).

Cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

With the engine up I'm going over it to se what needs to be done.

The ding on the points cover was bad enough to break a bolt boss. Not a priority as there are enough threads to suck it tight with a slightly longer bolt that aligns deeper in the case.

With the different rear wheel and wrong spacers my guess is that when the chain came off and gored the case is when the bike was parked for good.

I was looking online for some airbox parts and came across my identical carbs for $40 CDN pesos. So I grabbed them (is this going to become a problem, we'll see). I still can't believe in what good shape all the rubber and plastic is in.

It's actually still soft.

Later, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks man! Will do.

[Darren Jakal]

I love this bike. It's so much fun. I have to remember that this is supposed to be a low-budget winter project and keep my enthusiasm in check. It's pretty easy to drool over pictures and spend internet pesos.

I spent 16.00 bucks on new fasteners for the original carbs and I can't keep from wanting to get a good look into the new PDs I picked up for $40. But dam these JIS fasteners! I know I'll wind up spending more $$ on the fasteners I wreck so I stopped everything and ordered a set of JIS drivers from a place called GoFast Innovations. They are in Canada so the $24.95 CDN including delivery for a set of three seemed well worth the money.

So, it's cleaning, checking, finding parts, ordering stuff and thinking about what this bike is going to be. Like I say it's low milage, but short-term abused (most likely stolen and crashed) and I really don't like the original seat with backrest. The front end is also wrecked so that will need to be re-done.

When I started looking for a bike I had thoughts of cafe racers in my mind, because they do look cool (I do like lots of original Honda styles, but this one doesn't work for me). However, since I started into this project I've gained a great appreciation for the design team's intentions and when I look at the bike as a whole I think there is much more here to save than to change. The air box and triangle set-up is pretty cool from an industrial design perspective when you think about when these were built (and it all works together to perform well) .

The guy I bought the carbs off of had a bay full of old Japanese bikes that he was finding in cherry condition in garages around the prairies that he was sending back to England. He didn't like the Hondas because he thought they were plastic crap (he mentioned Yamaha making musical instruments). When I was a kid in the 70's a Honda was the first bike I ever rode (XR75) and everyone thought they were solid bikes for a good price (but I owned a Yamaha YZ125 anyway as the mono-shock was just too cool).

So while I will be redoing the seat and rear end along with the front end, handlebars and controls I will keep it pretty much mechanically stock (safety upgrades like swing arm bushings, steering, brakes, tires, etc yes). I'll try to stay within the original design brief (smooth, quiet and dependable ride), but update the body style to make it a bit more modern.

See how it goes.

[Darren Jakal]

OK I couldn't help but take a look inside.

I'm looking at posts about primary chains now. This project is taking over.

Cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

First off thanks to several members for help with my alternator rotor. My bike was missing all alternator parts except for the rotor and then I watched some youtube stuff on checking rotors and soon I'm thinking that it needs to come off.

Big relief to discover that it's just a chunk of iron that spins and that the field rotor and stator is where the magic happens.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for my JIS drivers but I could not help wanting to get a look inside the clutch housing. Off course the lower bolts all came out with a manual impact driver with a posidrive bit but all the upper ones were rusted in and I finally drilled off the heads.

I've never had the bike running and the clutch lever (without the cable) was very hard to pull so I thought something might be up with the clutch. Well it looks brand new inside, but the clutch adjust was screwed out so much that the threads were starting to catch in the slit end. I loosened it up and it everything inside the housing looks ok (not much to see really).

I pulled the clutch out and was able to disassemble all the plates and pads. It was oily but looks pretty much like new.

So, what do I do? I've read about "taking the glaze of the steel discs" and about soaking the pads in both gasoline and oil.

I've measured the springs (ranging from 36mm to 36.28mm) and will check the metal discs for flatness and thickness, but what would be good practice for getting this thing back on the road in basically original shape. Grease the push rod, check, but what else? Brass brush the steel plates and soak the pads? In gas or oil or what?

Cheers, Darren

[seanbarney41]

The only reason oem swingarm bushings wear out is because no one ever greased them.  If yours are good, just keep em greased up.

[Darren Jakal]

Hi Sean,

Yea it's one of those things. I want to take the bike apart because it has started to rust and I want to protect it. When I first got it home I was thinking of a rattle can or tremclad paint job, but it's almost to pretty to not do something a little better (project creep).

So I read these forums and make big plans, but yea, sometimes plans need to be reconsidered. I decided to get some swing arm bushings and head set bearings from twowheelfrank as they like a pretty good deal (they should be coming soon). I figure if I have the swing arm out to have it powdered coated then I might as well do the bushings and bearings. Keeps me from planning to do it later.

Anyway, I'm all ears when it comes to what really is important to do when you have a chance (like now with this revive project). I have the clutch out and I'm reading about Hondaman clutch mods (The kind of mods I like, cheap and I can do them myself).

So, anyone have any must-do's or don't bother's. I'd like to hear them.

[Darren Jakal]

The JIS drivers came in the mail today and I got to look inside the new carbs.

Better on the outside, but worse on the inside. The bowls were filled with some kind of rusty powder. Not sure how they'll clean-up but I'd really like two functioning sets of carbs at the end of it all.

Still looking into Hondaman clutch mods. Any 550 riders out there think these bikes need help here? I've read about chamfering the existing holes, drilling new holes and grooving the area around the holes. As well as deglazing and deburring plates. Not sure what I'll do. Any advice?

Darren