Topic: Mix Match 750 build - next stage cheap 836 kit

[Godffery]

 I recently used one of those "Super Build Maximum" swingarms on a custom build, and am rather impressed with the quality.

[newday777]

I recently used one of those "Super Build Maximum" swingarms on a custom build, and am rather impressed with the quality.

Good to hear that 👍

[Shtonecb500]

I recently used one of those "Super Build Maximum" swingarms on a custom build, and am rather impressed with the quality.

type 1 or 2? have any pictures and im interested in which shocks you are running. Are they extended at all or stock length and stock axle position?

edit: i see it on the 836 kit bike on your IG

[Godffery]

I recently used one of those "Super Build Maximum" swingarms on a custom build, and am rather impressed with the quality.

type 1 or 2? have any pictures and im interested in which shocks you are running. Are they extended at all or stock length and stock axle position?

edit: i see it on the 836 kit bike on your IG

Yes, It's on the the "836 project" (Type 2) with a set of Vintage Marzocchi shocks that are 13.5" from eye to eye.
Sorry I can't seem to post pix on this forum any more? (I think they changed the photo loading format a while back, so I've had no no luck since then) But for those on InstaGram, here is a link:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ce-jLrKAg8M/

[newday777]

Sorry I can't seem to post pix on this forum any more? (I think they changed the photo loading format a while back, so I've had no no luck since then) But for those on InstaGram, here is a link:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ce-jLrKAg8M/

I'm not on Instagram but it's let's me see those if I click not now when it says open in the app.
I've found is that the new phones in the past 5 years that have good cameras have too high of resolution size of pictures for the non changed forum requirements. So I found(stumbled upon) and what I'm doing is to take screen shots of my pictures before posting them on here, which reduces the size somehow so they fit the parameters needed. It's been working for me that way the past couple of years. Try it.
I'm not a techie to get a resize program nor want more apps to do so......

[Alan F.]

I use a separate camera app called Open Camera (admittedly not for everyone) It allows photo resolutions all the way down to 640x480 which I use at work.

Here's a screenshot of your Instagram photo of your beautiful work:

[Shtonecb500]

2015 KTM 1190 adventure r forks have 220mm/8.6"

edit: found 2015 Ktm 1190 R fork getting parted out for $550 in NJ.


edit: can i used use supermoto vintage twin shocks for their length? ohlins makes great replacements for vintage moto x
https://www.propilotsuspension.com/index.php/vintage-mx/



steering head angle on cb750 is 63 degrees, correct me if im wrong.

[Godffery]

 Regarding pix:
Thank you for the tips [newday777] and [Alan F.] I'm accessing the forum via desktop (I know; I'm so Old-school. That's why I only do Vintage Bikes  ) but I'll try that.

[Godffery]

Regarding pix:
Thank you for the tips [newday777] and [Alan F.] I'm accessing the forum via desktop (I know; I'm so Old-school. That's why I only do Vintage Bikes  ) but I'll try that.

Welp, apparently that didn't work ether?  =/
Not sure what to do about that, but till a solution is found, there is also the pix I have on FaceBook:   https://www.facebook.com/godfferysgarage

[Shtonecb500]

While im figuring out the KTM swap im still moving over the emulators into the stock 750 forks. I just dissembled the 550 forks and the guts.

one fork had a fork nut, washer, spacer, washer, spring, emulator
another fork had fork nut, 3 washers, spacer, 1 washer spring, emulator....weird.

[denward17]

What exactly is an emulator?  Is it the small valve looking thingie with a small spring?

What are the (looks like small sections of PVC pipe) used for?

[Alan F.]

An emulator is retrofitted to a damper rod fork to control rebound and compression better than the damper rod originally did.

Those pvc spacers are for spring preload to set sag, length of spacers will vary by rider weight.

Shtonecb500 the mixed parts could have been to compensate for uneven spring lengths?

[grcamna2]

An emulator is retrofitted to a damper rod fork to control rebound and compression better than the damper rod originally did.

They came out with 'cartridge forks' (not the USD's) back in the 80'/90's? and they are better;the emulator is technically a 'cartridge fork' Emulator,which is an improvement. Race Tech has used them for a long time.

[Alan F.]

Yup, and they've got tons of info on their website about tuning the system. One factor is oil level.

[Shtonecb500]

What exactly is an emulator?  Is it the small valve looking thingie with a small spring?

What are the (looks like small sections of PVC pipe) used for?

https://racetech.com/page/title/Emulators
You essentially disable the stock damping rod by drilling larger and more holes allowing the installed emulator to take over the job, higher up in the process through a better mechanism....it allows customization and tuning depending on your riding style and needs.

I rode my 550 around with these in the forks and the difference was night and day.

the white pvc is the preload spacer.

good write up on this stuff
https://www.ridethemiles.com/blog/mable-honda-cb550-cafe-racer-front-fork-rebuild-racetech

[Shtonecb500]

An emulator is retrofitted to a damper rod fork to control rebound and compression better than the damper rod originally did.

Those pvc spacers are for spring preload to set sag, length of spacers will vary by rider weight.

Shtonecb500 the mixed parts could have been to compensate for uneven spring lengths?

you are correct, one is shorter by a few mm and they a dont look progressively wound.
fork tubes are 577mm, I thought the assembled length was the same as 750 but its short by about an inch and the fork lowers are much shorter in length than the 750 lowers.

[Shtonecb500]

 Im considering removing the top wheel bar tab and welding on another lower shock mount kit/bracket - this one will be able to accept eye to eye shocks and the original one will remain for eye to clevis, this will also give me some more length to fit a longer shock if needed for the ktm front end. Are there any rules out there saying a lower shock mount cant be placed behind a rear wheel axle?


edit: nvm, if i run the stock axle position the shock mount is behind that so i should be fine.


Damper with the brass is the 550 already drilled that was running emulators- very different than the 750 damper. 550 damper is slightly longer and thinner.

[Shtonecb500]

The race tech emulators and the straight rate spring that came in the 550 forks are installed in the 750 forks, the springs were considerably shorter as you can see in the picture. Since everything was off I attempted running the calipers behind the forks and got it all back together but realized my brake lines were too short to run the calipers that much lower - the right way is swapping the bleeders over and then i wouldn't need longer lines at all.....but it looked good..ill def run them that way on the K1.

I thought I had the pre load spacers figured out but when I tried to reuse the spacers from the 550 set up I came up short so ended up cutting new spacers.

All I had was 20 weight fork fluid so im sure Ill wanna switch that to `10-15 weight after some miles. Almost dropped the bike  trying to shove the wheel back in-between the forks the first time...I had two jacks under the frame rails with some wobble...the only reason the bike didnt drop completely is because the forks go caught up on the wheel - I lucked out and did much better when i pulled it all apart again to reverse the calipers.

[Shtonecb500]

love these emulators - Im going to try 15 weight and a little less preload.

[seanbarney41]

The spring rate may not be ideal if they were originally sourced for a 550.  It is easy to check by doing a part search on the Race Tech website.

[newday777]

love these emulators - Im going to try 15 weight and a little less preload.

What is the diameter of the emulators?

[Shtonecb500]

The spring rate may not be ideal if they were originally sourced for a 550.  It is easy to check by doing a part search on the Race Tech website.

since this is all second hand parts Im not sure what the spring rate is and I didnt adjust the valve just dropped it in as was.

how do i test spring rate?

[seanbarney41]

The spring rate may not be ideal if they were originally sourced for a 550.  It is easy to check by doing a part search on the Race Tech website.

since this is all second hand parts Im not sure what the spring rate is and I didnt adjust the valve just dropped it in as was.

how do i test spring rate?

I dunno...but it is kinda pointless to use all that nice stuff if the spring rate is incorrect.  Realize that that there is nearly 100 pounds of weight difference between a 550 and a 750.  If you can achieve the correct amount of static and live sag, by adjusting your pre-load, than the spring rate should work for you.  I don't have the correct sag numbers.  You are gonna have to do some research to find them.  There is lot's of info on the Race Tech website, but it's kinda hard to use, and they won't give away all their secrets unless you buy something.  The vintage department guy at Race Tech is a genius and super nice.  He has been extremely helpful when I have questions.  You can get his email off the website and he answers back usually within an hour during business hours. 

Another thing...what year are your 750 fork internals?  K1 and earlier are not damper rod forks.  These forks use a sliding bushing to cover and uncover the dampening holes.  Cartridge emulators can not be used with these forks,  All you can do to improve these forks is correct rate springs and different weight oil.

[Shtonecb500]

The spring rate may not be ideal if they were originally sourced for a 550.  It is easy to check by doing a part search on the Race Tech website.

since this is all second hand parts Im not sure what the spring rate is and I didnt adjust the valve just dropped it in as was.

how do i test spring rate?

I dunno...but it is kinda pointless to use all that nice stuff if the spring rate is incorrect.  Realize that that there is nearly 100 pounds of weight difference between a 550 and a 750.  If you can achieve the correct amount of static and live sag, by adjusting your pre-load, than the spring rate should work for you.  I don't have the correct sag numbers.  You are gonna have to do some research to find them.  There is lot's of info on the Race Tech website, but it's kinda hard to use, and they won't give away all their secrets unless you buy something.  The vintage department guy at Race Tech is a genius and super nice.  He has been extremely helpful when I have questions.  You can get his email off the website and he answers back usually within an hour during business hours. 

Another thing...what year are your 750 fork internals?  K1 and earlier are not damper rod forks.  These forks use a sliding bushing to cover and uncover the dampening holes.  Cartridge emulators can not be used with these forks,  All you can do to improve these forks is correct rate springs and different weight oil.

According the website the spring rate out of factory were the same and the recommended spring rates by race tech to use were the same as well. I remember Kevin telling me he setup his bike for a heavier rider but I might be mistaken as we discussed it years ago...also under the impression that the difference in stock springs between 750 and 550 were the OD and that an upgraded straight rate spring for a 550 would be at minimum good enough for the 750.

I cant use the DVS set up sheet ( got all this used) butI have a blue 40lb. valve spring on my emulator but not sure how much preload it has set to it, still have to pull it out and remove all preload and try it otr turn by turn.

So all in all - from factory the spring rates are the same (unless I'm reading all that wrong) - when upgrading they suggest the same hardware - I'm assuming whats here should be within spec just not tuned properly for my bike.

Just wanna say even just dropping these things in and not being sure what the tuning is even set to, the ride is 100% improved already...adding 10 weight helped a lot as well.

There is a huge difference in handling, the bike tracks less with more control over it on poor condition roads, I've been playing with the oil weight and preload spacers only as of right now.

I also have the pictures of the 550 and 750 dampers next to one another just a few posts above that you can reference, they are basically the same.

[grcamna2]

I remember using Racetech teflon coated bushings and synthetic fork oil along with their emulators and fork springs;very compliant over the small spots and even helped absorb roughness on 'chip and tar' roads.