Topic: Don Imus

[Rocking-M]

RX, your grandmother only used the terms that the Black folks used for themselves. They referred to themselves as "Darkies"
for example, "My Old Virginia Home" the once upon a time State song was written by a Black man who used the term Darkie.
Colored then became the term used and again with it no other overtones than saying someone was white.
The same use to be said of the term <deleted>, the word everyone is scared to use less they offend someone,
but once upon a time it was used with affection. I'm sure this fact may escape some folks.
And today it is used in a completely different way than 150 years ago.

Just so you know, I put more stock in what has been recorded by folks who lived in that day than what folks think
went on then. A lot is to be found in historical documents. For instance. The personal servant of Jefferson Davis was
on a steamer with Mrs. Davis after the war. The steamer going to Canada while Jefferson Davis was in prison without
charges being brought against him. A northern fellow was verbally abusing Mrs. Davis and her ex-servant ask the man
if he considered him his equal. The northern man said yes and the servant then flattened the man.
(you had to be equals to duel etc....)

It's a sad thing that you continue to perpetuate the myth that the South is ignorant and backwards.
Need I remind you that once, historically speaking, the South had the most learned individuals in this
once upon a time Federal Republic. I will not disagree that there are warts in our past, but the north
has more than it's share of warts and bigotry so to point the finger south just means the other 3 are pointing
back at you. However, what we now see looking back as warts we do so with different definitions
and a completely corrupt understanding of that day.

Back to Imus, never heard him, probably wouldn't like him if I did, but, when the whine of the
Charlatans(Sharptan)  and Jackson is raised up against suppose racism I figure there is none.

[Uncle Ernie]

The South I was in was different.  The only blacks folks I ever saw was mowing a lawn or washing someones dishes.  Then, My father moved us up to Southside Chicago.  I was too stupid to be biased against black people because the Sothern racism I knew was never openly discussed in the neighborhoods where EVERY kid said "yes SIR" and "Thank you MAM".  Every time.  I later found out that it was the "lower" classes that openly refered to the damn n*****s.  They were apparently the cause of all trouble, if it wasn't the Jews, of course.  I still remember driving into the Chicago and the streets where totally lined with black folks.  Like landing in a black and white film negative.  Amazing.  Long story short, as mentioned above, it's hard to hate someone you live next to and get to know.  I have a little understanding of what blacks folks were thinking because I talked with them about all this kind of stuff.  I was in Chicago when Martin Luther King was shot.  Things got tenmse, to say the least...

Re women as a minority- perhaps I should say "marginalized".  They have always been under the thumb of men for one reason or another, even if it's only because women are not as strong physically.  I think they have a long history of mental and emotional intimidation that they've bought into, and I'm glad to see they're finally (slowly) starting to get out of that.  I don't feel it can be deinied when you look at how they were also treated a property in many ways and had to fight for a right to vote.  Still many stories of how they have to be twice as smart and work twice as hard to get anywhere in business.  Breaking in to the Good Ol Boys Club and having similar difficulties as other minorities.  

I get indications that our generation's kids think we're stupid about this stuff (sounds familiar...).  I hope they still feel that way when they get to be 18, and I hope voting will become a fashion statement.

Going for a ride. TTFN

[Rocking-M]

Ernie, I must have missed something in my South, I had many black friends
and I use to cut grass when a kid. Towing a lawn mower behind my bicycle which
Clarence did also. Clarence and I later played baseball together. He called me soda cracker
and I used the n word on him with no animosity from either of us.
I play shortstop Clarence was on Second. I always figured Clarence was the better second baseman
but a white boy got to start most of the time. Not because he was white,
but, because he came from a baseball family.

I asked a friend (Rufus) at our last reunion who move north to New York after school days what he thought
about racism in the South. He had pissed me off in Junior high
because he moved down and beat me in the 220 hurdles, I could beat him in the
hundred yard dash. I was the fastest in my high school and descrimated against because I wasn't black.
Anyway back to racism.
 He said he never saw any racism in the south but has seen plenty since he moved back to New York.
Rufus is black.

[eldar]

So rockin, when do you get your eyes fixed?  You dont see racism in the south? Sure buddy, I got this money tree out back, I could prune it and send you a branch to plant. Racism is everywhere, it just comes in different forms. I have seen racism in the north, south and everywhere else I have been. Please try not to be so ignorant as to think it only exists in the north. That just says that southerners are still sore that they got whipped back in the 1860s. ALMOST 150 YEARS AGO!!!!!! That is as bad as england still being pissed for the revolutionary war! Times have changed, people have moved on. Get over it. I have been subject to racism myself from people in the south. YOU YOURSELF are being racist in your comments to people in the north. 

You have been so one sided in all your comments and have attacked anyone not agreeing with you or arguing against you. Sorry but to use info from a book that was written in a period where black slaves were normal is poor support for your "argument". Should we speak of the horrors performed by the KKK? Which was born in the south? How about all the hangings that heppened in the south? Yet there is no racism? Please. Did you fall off without a helmet? You might not have seen it in the small area where you grew up but I would bet the farm you you would have found it somewhere else in the south where you were not know and did not know anyone.

So her ewe have most everyone else posting thought out comments that at least make sense and here you are spewing crap which basically comes down to north vs. south.
you have nothing that presents any valid info and you fill your posts with venom and hate. You really need to get out of your county and see the world as it really is. I am sure that if any of us here went to where you live, we would be subjected to racism. I bet you would do it too if you found out we were from the north without actually bothering to find out who we are.

[Rocking-M]

Elder, your as full of it as anyone else on here. I contract all the times with folks from the north who have
moved into the county I now live in. See I wasn't raised where I'm at now so your assumption is way off.
There is a difference between northerners and yankees. You assume that when I use that term I lump
everyone north of the Mason Dixon into that category. Two wrong assumptions for you get to the back of the line.

I treat everyone I meet and deal with on the assumption that their ok till they prove me wrong.
Doesn't matter their color nor their place of origin.

I don't think I have stated that racism doesn't exist, bigotry being a better term I would think.
Sure everyone has their likes and dislikes. And if you put a man down because he is just different
I don't go for that. However, when the South, as is usually done, is thought to be the
originator of all the racial problems in this country then I take exception.
By the way, I've been outside of my county of Birth.
Born in Robeson County, NC. Lived in several parts of NC.
Lived in Canada, lived in Maine, seen enough of the NE and now live in
Virginia. So that is your third wrong assumption. No soup for you.

By the way the link I posted is for a current Southern Supporter not old.
That makes four wrong assumptions but it doesn't matter your out of the soup line anyway.

[eldar]

I did not read anywhere where someone said it started in the south. Slavery and racism has always existed since it is part of human nature. Before whites ever made blacks into slaves, they made slaves of each other. Whites also made otehr whites into slaves. 

You also never stated there was a difference between northerners and yanks, so back of the line for you on that one. You however called anyone who disagreed with you a yank right away just because. There you are showing your bigotry in bold bright colors. yet you figure to call me full of it. Please buddy. there comes a time when you ahve to drop your load so you dont get stuck in the mud.

I also do not live in the NE. I live in ND, we are about as upright people as you will find in this country, rebels would do well to follow our example. There see, now I am talking like you an I bet you will not like it. You also keep referring to a soup line, You must be trying to kick people out of it as you lost your place after your first post. You posted a link to crap written in the 1840s. How is that current? So maybe you need to catually think about what you type as you keep spewing bigotry and crap and cant even keep your own posts straight here.

[Rocking-M]

No the link wasn't to the 1840's the quote was check it out the link and get back to me!

ND upright, yea ask a Indian. That would be a Lakota since your not originally from around there.

[BobbyR]

Everyone is always looking to be offended today. There are hustlers out there that make a big deal out of everything so they can get the status of "Leader". Imus was always a hack and he became a senile hack. I live in NY and listened to him from his earliest shows. He had all these bits he did  with different characters. I began to travel around the US on business and heard other DJs that had been doing the same characters for years. Radio was regional, so you could steal from another guy and no one would know or care. He was fired because the stations have no guts, and the advertisers pulled out because they have no guts. He is worth tens of millions of dollars and should have retired years ago. Yeah I am an Old White Guy and you can say anything about me and my response is 'whatever".

[Chris Liston]

Here's my take on this long thread.  After hearing what Imus said and in he context in which is was said it was a JOKE and for some people a bad joke.  Should he have been fired, NO.  Suspened yes.  But money talks more than anything.  Now onto the girls feelings.  They would have probably NEVER cared one bit about the comments if Rev's Al and Jesse didn't make such a HUGE THING OUT OF IT.  This is what those too #$%*s do.  Take the smallest comments and actions and blow them completely out of proportion for their own gains.  I've been watching the news coverage of this all week and its tiring.  The two Men of God should easily forgive but they choose to take this as their own crusade and roast Imus.  The man apologized and I feel really meant it.  That should have been the end of their crusade on it.  Let's see the two of them go after all the crap rap music and get the record labels to drop every Hip-Hop artist out there for saying ho's, n----- and such.  NOT EVER GOING TO HAPPEN.  I'

I've never ever listen to Imus and didn't care too.  The first time I ever saw or heard of Sharton was the Tuana Brawly thing 20+ years ago when I was like 10.  For some reason I thought he was an ass then as I do now.  Only out for his own agenda and has brain washed the rest of the black community into thinking he's right.  Jackson on the other hand doesn't even make sense anymore.  The guy puts so much spin on things and I've never ever seen him even answer a question without spinning it to he cause of black people.

I judge everyone from what they do and how they are.  I forgive people.  This entire PC America anymore sucks.  Everyone is so easily offended it makes me sick.  People have to toughen up a little.  If you don't like what someone says don't listen to them.  Pretty simple.

[eldar]

First a bit of history, supposed prejudice was not witnessed in the south in 1840
by Alex de Tocqueville in his book "Democracy in America" (an extremely insightful book on the problems
we have now)

That quote of yours sure makes it sound like it was fro mthe 1840s. If that book was not from then, you should have stated such. As you did NOT, that falls upon you and no one else since you did not clarify.

Also, clearly you cant even do worthwhile searches. http://www.native-languages.org/ndakota.htm

You will clearly see that Lakota is NOT the only or even main indian tribe. I have lived in this state for over 20 years. You will run into sioux long before any lakota. You will find many indians all around the state. And just like everyone else, they are treated as well as they themselves treat others. I have know some scummy indians, but I have also know many great ones who I was friends with and worked with. Dont try to turn your bigotry onto me.

[Rocking-M]

Ignorance is bliss eh Elder? Google doesn't tell it all though.

Sioux is not an Indian Tribe, Lakota is. I think Sioux is a corruption of a French name applied to
all the Indians in that general area. So when you say Sioux which do you mean. The Lakota who
are (or should I say were, yes) the biggest Tribe back in the day. I have a friend who has worked in
your State and SD and OK with the many of the tribes personally for the last 30 years so you can jump
off your high horse.

Perhaps you should take the time to read "In the Spirit of Crazy Horse" by Peter Matthiess.
Perhaps you have never shown your bigotry to the Indians who you may know. That is good.
But don't tell me the SD and ND folks haven't.

As to your selective quoting, there is no link in the quote you use, There is my reference to a book.
The two are not the same, get a dictionary.

This is the link. HK is a friend whom I support.


http://www.southerngrace.biz/bonnieblue/13_hkedgerton.htm

[eldar]

They may not be the same but you sure implied that they were. If you cant get your own words straight, don type them. It still falls on you no matter what you try to say.

Sioux may have been a french name but it is still applied to 2 different groups.

Here you go, maybe you can cure your own ignorances. http://www.health.state.nd.us/ndiac/tribes.htm  This IS an OFFICIAL site. Not the mumbo jumbo, "this is my opinion" sites you put on.

You say to not tell you about my bigotry. why not, you are certainly taking the liberty of dealing it directly at me and others here. But again, you like your ignorance and must not read what I type as I say racism and bigotry are part of human nature and EVERYONE does it even those who try to forward this claim of southern hospitality.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall except you cant hurt me and you certainly produce nothing more than the brick wall can.

As I am done with work now, you more crumbing of your argument will have to wait till tomorrow.

[mlinder]

This thread is getting too personal.

[Rocking-M]

Don't give me State links, I do not consider them the official word on the Indians in
your area. The BIA has pretty much been led by a bunch of goons for the last
100 years and they are whom the State gets their information from.

I sorry if you confused two different post, and if you take time to study them the
first was written in a historical context, the second in which I mentioned HK was
written in the present context.

and one last one for you to look at tomorrow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._K._Edgerton

[Uncle Ernie]

Mr M, anything I'm saying about the South is not aimed at you.  I do think your thoughts about black folks and white folks during the -well, anytime, actually -being as one big happy family is at best naively antediluvian.  As an example, when we lived in Houston in the early '60s, my father was a chaplain at Ben Taub Hospital when it was discovered that doctors routinely sterilized black women during operations for other things.  Sort of a free bonus.  Only they didn't know it.  Of course, racism is everywhere.  It may well be human nature to some degree, but I see it borne of insecurities;  seems as though everyone needs someone to kick.  I saw this a lot in Hispanic communities where Castilians are the top and Mexicans are the bottom.  That's why so many non-Mexicans will hasten to tell you they are from Nicaragua, Venazuela, whatever.  People in San Francisco are still racist about the Chinese whom they claim are lousy drivers because they can't see out those slits-for-eyes.  If it weren't for the Chinese, there wouldn't be the railroads and perhaps even the City itself.

I suspect that what Mr M is trying to do is point out not that the South is more racist, but that perhaps we might all agree that it is/was more blatant.  In other areas of the country it shows up as not being able to get a real estate loan in certain ZIP codes, missing a promotion, assuming you couldn't make a critical decision if your hormones are going crazy (and ssuming they do so in the first place), being sent in to harms way first, not getting the recognition for heroism you deserved 60 years ago until now, etc.  I could be wrong, however...

In this time we are living in, I really think, more and more, words are important.  People are acting in a defensive, knee-jerk manner without really thinking.  If any of you are old enough to remember Pogo; We have met the enemy, and he is us.  

If only everyone could be like me.  What a bunch of fools.

[BobbyR]

I grew up and live in NY. I have spent a lot of time traveling and working in the South. I gotta tell in the South the Blacks and Whites interact better than they do up here in the North.  Southerners are not dumb or unfriendly as a rule. I have had more trouble in California than in the South.

[Quail "Owner of the comfortable k8"]

..and now we return to thread being viewed


Imus made a living talking hate about everyone.  The man wasted his life.  This will no doubt give him another Mic on another station, but he will just fade away.  What I wonder is, if it would have gone down the way it did if he would have just told everyone "Bite me" and went about his business.  For Imus the "I'm sorry" made him look like he had done something that he had not done before.  The gate has been opened and the gloves are off now.  Every one will be brought to task for anthing that they say that sounds even a little bias.  There is no "list" of things you can't say so you can always say the wrong thing. 

Oh yea.  "I am sorry I don't like Homo's".

[Rocking-M]

Ernie and Bobby R,

I'm sure some of the blatant racism y'all have experienced is way more than I ever have. I have not lived in
cities neither North nor South. I have seen some things however on Farms in SC in the late 60's early 70's that
were not to pretty for the black folks involved. Share croppers life being a hard one black or white.
But, I am sure that had I hung out long enough in NYC in 73, when
I passed through hitching rides to Canada at the age of 16,  I would have seen as much bad stuff.
About all I saw at that age was an overwhelming amount of people. 3 days and I'd had enough

Perhaps my ideas are antediluvian but I base them on the folks whom the whites have been considered as
the oppressors of. In other words, the words of the blacks from bygone era's and the era I grew up in.
Sure there are instances of blatant racism in the South, but just perhaps blown way out of proportion to suit
someone else's agenda. (There are instances of child abuse but not everyone who raises children is an abuser.)

I think as a whole, BobbyR's assessment rings true for southern Race relations. Generally the norm has
been friendly terms for all races in the South. I think that is the norm for agrarian cultures in most places.
Probably the best black folks I have met are in South Carolina. The place that Jesse Jackson and his cronies want
to boycott (a big failure). Just for an example, the last Quarter Horse Show we did was in Camden. SC.
We pulled into town with Confederate bumper stickers on the truck and horse trailer, not an unusual sight down here.
Couldn't figure out the directions to the horse arena and a truck load of Black men pulled up to me and
ask if that was what I was looking for. Yes sir, I said. They said, follow us and when we get to your turn
we'll point it out to you and the arena is down on the left. (This is outside of town mind you).
 Sure nuff, these folks showed me the way and I wasn't doubting them for a minute because their
southerners whom I grew up with, didn't matter what color. Anyway, I base my opinions of folks on actual
experience and even when the experience "ain't to good" I "try" not to take it to mean that all are like that.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

All right, now we change the subject! Imus is officially old news. Lets stir up some new #$%*. Excellent. And this one is not regional. Quail, why are you sorry ?!?   Just don't use the Q word or the F word and you should be OK. Hey, I can find humor in everything. Life as we know it is VERY humorous. Chill time guys.

[seaweb11]

All right, now we change the subject! Imus is officially old news. Lets stir up some new #$%*. Excellent. And this one is not regional. Quail, why are you sorry ?!?   Just don't use the Q word or the F word and you should be OK. Hey, I can find humor in everything. Life as we know it is VERY humorous. Chill time guys.

I will check the Canadian News and find something every one can sink there teeth into.

WOW!

[Uncle Ernie]

I have a dog; she goes where I let her go when I let her go there.  She eats what and when I feed her.  She seems to like the situation.  However, treating a human like that just somehow doesn't feel right to me.  According to the Stockholm Syndrome thesis, captives become grateful to the people who imprison them.   As you suggest, I'm sure race relations in the South were swell as long as colored folks didn't walk in the wrong door, sit in the wrong bus seat, drink from the wrong fountain, look the wrong way at a white woman, or look a white man in the eye, try to move into the wrong neighborhood,,,  Heck, they're like little kids- they need a strong presence to take care of them.  It even has a name; "The White Man's Burden".  I guess the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion over time.  What was I thinking?  Come by here, Lord. 

I got a few things to say about homos, too.  But, I think I should sign off on this thread for the sake of harmony.  I understand I can be a trouble maker.  Nobody likes trouble.  I sort of hijacked the topic of Mr Imus, and I apologize. 

[ofreen]

Don Imus' troubles are a good example of the concept of "what goes around comes around.'  Sometimes it just takes awhile.  Most normal people behaving like him would have had their comeuppance long ago.  Many people in our society likes to wallow in the negative, so people like Imus, Howard Stern, etc. thrive.  But sooner or later it will come back to bite them.  Just look at Imus' face.  It seems to me his character is written all over it.

[eldar]

Who the hell is Imus anyways?

[Rocking-M]

Interview entitled "Words mean Something"

A really great interview with Ms. Maya Angelou just aired on the Imus controversy.

She spoke the most truth I've heard on the subject. Mr. Russel Mitchell interviewed her
and she repeatedly called him, "Mr. Russel Mitchell". He asked if she was mad with him.
She said no, "I'm a southerner and use full names". 

Oh yea, she gave the golden rule at the end of the interview.
Lets sit down and talk, we might decide we don't like each other
but we can treat each other fairly.

[Uncle Ernie]

That would have been a great interview to see/hear.  What show was it on- I'm guessing cable which us po' folks can't afford.
Mr M, I will say publicly that I don't agree entirely with everything you've been saying, but I'm proud to know a man who can keep his wits about him and actually carry on an exchange of views without throwing insults. Perhaps you even considered what I had to say...?
Also, Thank you.