Topic: Mo the 80 CB650 Custom: "As the Spanner Turns..."

[The_Crippler]

Which, to answer a question Kit had for me earlier, mine are the PDs.  I was working on it this weekend, looked up and saw "PD" stamped in the side and said, "Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuh...."

[Hush]

Hey Crippler, if your carbs have large chrome tin-can like tops on them they are Constant Velocity (CV) carbs, therefore inside is a rubber diaphram above the main jet needle.
Unfortunately as we 650 crowd are the only SOHC4's with these CV carbs we have to do a fair bit of hunting around to find the answers.
I think only the Custom (CL) 81-82 650's were fitted with these.
Was Honda's last shake of the dice where the SOHC4's were concerned.

[The_Crippler]

Nope, I believe they're the PDs...like I said above, they have that stamped on the side, and they don't have the tops you mentioned.  Also, mine's a 1980, so that falls outside your date range.  Oh well.

[manjisann]

Hush, TC's right the 80's were equipped with the old carb style, as was mine. From what I've understood of some of Soos's posts the CV's are spaced differently so it wouldn't even be a direct drop in.

It would be hard to tell unless you had ridden the bike a lot before the carb change weather the original carbs were better or not.
Didn't your model have the CV carbs?
I'm a bit of a fan (don't tell the old guard) of the CV carbs, the throttle opens and it's instant power, these older mechanicals need to be finessed to get the same performance out of them.

Since I've never ridden a stock 650 I'll probably never know. I did see an add in the local papers for a place that will do dyno testing for under a hundred bucks so when I get her running where I like her I may go ahead and do that just to see what the figures show. I'm really curious if theres any real change in performance or not, up or down.

Well, the weathers nice and my homework is done so I'm going to go and try and get my baby to where the only thing I'm waiting on is the chain. Hush I'll count those teeth for you, but I can't guarantee if its stock gearing or not.


And since we all love pictures I'll take a few of the mods I've made.

Brandon

[The_Crippler]

Jeez...you can tell how my day is going...I kept scrolling back wondering, "Who the crap is 'TC'?"

[manjisann]

I need to know what standard 650's are running, if you can give me the front sprocket count too that would be great.....cheers.....Hush.

Front is 16 teeth, and rear is 39 teeth. As for whether or not that is stock, I couldn't say, I'll try looking it up in clymer or somthing and see if it says. I know the PO of the bike had just replaced the chain not too long before he stopped riding.

Jeez...you can tell how my day is going...I kept scrolling back wondering, "Who the crap is 'TC'?"

Haha, I have those days all the time 

Brandon

[manjisann]

I finished the fusebox holder and installed it. I also installed the sissybar/luggage rack combo. I also adjusted the clutch cable. At this point I just need to finish the fuel tank, install the chain when I get it and I should be riding!

Here's the pictures I promised, nothing too spectacular.

Brandon

[The_Crippler]

Hey, man - that fuse box turned out great!

[Hush]

16/39 thanks heaps Brandon, hope your chain hurries up...I wanna see you ride that bad boy!

[manjisann]

"Brandon, why not swap out the stock carbs for some simpler to rebuild 750 carbs? You know more than the engineers, so do it!"  Seriously, the devil made me do it! I cut and polished the tank and was setting it on and......... the damn petcock hits the carbs!!!!!! So, why not swap out the stock 650 carbs for the 750 carbs? BECAUSE THEY WON'T EFFING FIT!!! Ok, so once I figured this out, I realized I had a couple of choices. I can go back to the stock setup... um not happening, or I can move the petcock. This would have been no problem BEFORE I DID A BEAUTIFUL PAINTJOB! oh well, the things we learn as we go. Since I'm already commited I moved the petcock, which involved welding, which involved bubbling up my beautiful paint job    I'm trying to figure out how to fix it. Since it's only around that outer crimped rim (the one that earlier models had that lovely chrome trim on) I'm thinking I'll just do a rattlecan outline on it and call it good. Guess it's pretty much a guarantee that I'll be redoing the paint in a few years. I'm going to go and get a Por15 kit and reseal the tank. Fortunately most of the weld is good, a couple of small holes, which in order to fix I'd have to braze, and that would just foul the paint up even worse. Just things to consider when doing customizations.

My chain is supposed to be here tomorrow. I won't be riding tomorrow, I'll be sealing the tank, but God willing I'll get to ride next week.

Brandon

[The_Crippler]

I can say nothing but: 



"Doh."

[manjisann]

I can say nothing but: 



"Doh."

Heh, that's a little cleaner than what I said. I'm trying to be philosophical about this. I'd been kicking around the idea of redoing at least the frame paint when I get my cafe racer done, this just forces my hand is all.

I think I'll just put a slight coating of JB weld in the area my welding torch couldn't get to, and then seal it with the por15. We'll see how it holds up. The sealer should work fine as the gapping isn't very much and the JB weld would cause it to puddle. I'm just going to have to use some painters plastic and tape the living crap out of it so the rest of the paint job doesn't go down the crapper.

I'll take some pics of the carnage when I can bring myself to look at it again. For now I'm just trying to not get to frustrated at the whole situation.

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

Sometimes I sit and reflect on these 650s and think "Why hasn't anyone named their 650 "Ichi the Killer"?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichi_the_Killer


they just seem to derive SO much pleasure out of f*cking with us...

...y'know... for inanimate objects an' all...

...
*hangs head* I'm gonna go back out to the garage now.

[traveler]

All things being equal, is the CV a better carb than a PD?

Your PD is different than a 550 PD.....you have accelerator pumps, we do not.

~Joe

[Hush]

Accelerator pump is a definite improvement, CV carbs give instant more modern power on/off.
I'm still toying with the idea of fitting some CV's if I can find a set.

[Frankenkit]

that's debatable, but I think the general consensus is "yes."

[The_Crippler]

You know - as long as you get that whole petcock think sorted out.

[manjisann]

OK, so I've managed to calm down enough and I took a couple crime scene photos 

All things considered It's not really that bad. Fortunately my welding skills have improved over the last little bit so I did a pretty good job. I circled the area where the torch just won't get into. Ideally I'd braze this area, but anyone who has ever brazed will know why I've chosen not to. For those of you who haven't, it would destroy the paint on the left side of the tank, and I'm REALLY trying to minimize the destruction of my beloved paint.

I did test fit it after I'd tacked the petcock on, and it's gonna be a tight fit, I'll only be able to use on and off. This isn't a huge issue since I wasn't planning on running the little straw in there anyhow, and now an in line filter is a must since the stock in tank filter wouldn't fit this far back.

Travelor, I'm going to have to defer to others, I've never ridden a bike with CV carbs. I chose to go with the ones I'm using for economic reasons (well it was economical at the time I decided to do them, it's not turning out that way so far).

Anyhow, fingers crossed the tank is fixed. When I get around to redoing the paint job I'll braze the bottom but for now I'm just going to have to rely on JB weld. I did some searches and found several references to members sealing up their tanks with JB weld and having it hold for a long time so I should be good for a couple years.

Brandon

[manjisann]

I just had an ugly thought. With the petcock that far back, if I'm going down a steep hill I  might starve the carbs of fuel. I may need to move it forward instead of back. My only concern with that was how close the petcock would be to the engine head. Bah, customizing stuff sucks.

Brandon

[Hush]

If you're going "down hill" it probably wont matter, going up hill might be more of a challenge.
But seriously Brandon, it won't matter, just fit the damn thing...it'll work.

[Zaipai]

OK, so I've managed to calm down enough and I took a couple crime scene photos 

All things considered It's not really that bad. Fortunately my welding skills have improved over the last little bit so I did a pretty good job. I circled the area where the torch just won't get into. Ideally I'd braze this area, but anyone who has ever brazed will know why I've chosen not to. For those of you who haven't, it would destroy the paint on the left side of the tank, and I'm REALLY trying to minimize the destruction of my beloved paint.

Brandon

Hey, nice work, I should have had you fix my old tank...

.: Scott :.

[manjisann]

Hey, nice work, I should have had you fix my old tank...

.: Scott :.

Thanks for the compliment. I would have enjoyed all this if it wasn't for the fact that I'd already painted it.

Brandon

[Zaipai]

Hey, nice work, I should have had you fix my old tank...

.: Scott :.

Thanks for the compliment. I would have enjoyed all this if it wasn't for the fact that I'd already painted it.

Brandon

Yea that does bite, any chance if I do go about getting it fixed, you might give it a try? The tank is shot as is, so if it does not work no harm if it does then I have a spare if needed.. Just thinking ahead..

.: Scott :.

[manjisann]

Zaipai if you pay to ship it to me and back I'd be happy to see what I can do. Where is it leaking and how bad is any rust it has? Also, it has to be steel (I think some are aluminum) as that is all I have the tools and knowledge to work with. If you can, send me some pics, but seriously, I'd be happy to do it.

And since I'm posting, I got the xring chain last night.... and didn't even open the box since there's no point at the moment. I used my Dremel and a wire wheel the clean the rust off of the area I had welded, wiped it with some cleaner degreaser and then put a nice coating of JB weld on it. It may not be the most "professional" job and isn't really my first choice of ways to go, but since brazing wasn't an option at this point due to how it would destroy the paint, I'm happy with it and pretty confident that even without a tank sealer it would be fuel proof. That being said, I already ordered the POR15 tank kit, I'm really not interested in half assing this so a sealing we will go. My only concern is whether the Por15 that was already in there and got toasted when I did the welding will cause me any problems, I hope not.

To make me feel better I went ahead and hooked my bottle tank up to the bike and started her, just to hear her beautiful voice. I still think I can hear the camshaft smacking the rockers, but at this point I'm just writing it off as normal noise, it isn't anything really excessive and goes away when I rev her up. I checked the charging at the battery and when revved she hits about 14.5v (thats a guestimate, I know it was greater than 14 which was all I was looking for.) So at this point I'm crossing my fingers that all the sanding and dieelectric greasing I've done will make this work right.

Well, time to clock in for work.

Brandon

[754]

Someone out there in sixfityland, must be itching to get a brand new head...
 I know of one, cant remember what yrs it fits, may fit CV carbs... soos may remember..