Author Topic: Cutting up Classics  (Read 47753 times)

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clip

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2010, 07:53:26 AM »
When I "pimped out" the CB750 I had no idea what he was going to do with it or there is no amount of money he could have paid me to do it. I get bikes from California all the time and just thought he was another rich guy adding to his collection. When he sent me the video I almost had a stroke when I saw what he did. I was merely trying to point out what kind of crazies are out there. I learned from that incident to always ask what the customer intends to do with the bike when it is restored.
Clip

Offline MaaseyRacer

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2010, 09:29:43 AM »
When I "pimped out" the CB750 I had no idea what he was going to do with it or there is no amount of money he could have paid me to do it. I get bikes from California all the time and just thought he was another rich guy adding to his collection. When he sent me the video I almost had a stroke when I saw what he did. I was merely trying to point out what kind of crazies are out there. I learned from that incident to always ask what the customer intends to do with the bike when it is restored.
Clip

It bothered you that much? I used to build race cars. These cars would often end up as scrap. That was part of the business we were in. Luckily there are a ton of other cars out there waiting to get built up again. As for CB750s, there are a ton of them out there and they fewer of them that survive the more value they hold.  

I also grew up in a house hold where modified motorcycles were the norm.  My father was a machinist at Kosman for several years.  Everything he worked on was not stock when it left the shop.  I look at the 350-750 Hondas and see so much room for improvement.  There are so many modern applications that can help these bikes (i.e. Suspension, Brakes, wheels, engine performance).  Half the fun of working on my 350F is thinking of ways to make it more like a modern bike, but still look like a bike of yester-year.

The again growing up in the 80s and 90s if someone were to drive a fully restored Fiero off a cliff, I would applaud the effort.  
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Offline Brown Bomber

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2010, 09:34:28 AM »
     Several years ago I read an article in a motorcycle magazine about a group of rich guys that formed a club that would find vintage bikes with low miles and run them off a cliff. The lower the mileage, the more they got off on it. I wasn't into vintage bikes then, and it still made my blood boil. I see where your coming from Clip.

(I think those young rich idiots are all politicians now.)
   
     All of my bikes are riders, so they have some modifications, (suspension, handelbars, mirrors, seats, lights, etc.) but nothing that can't be put back to stock, simply because I liked the original or I wouldn't have bought it in the first place, and I may want to alter that modification later, and don't want to mess up the original. A lot of improvements can be done to a 40 year old bike without ruining it's originality.

     I can appreciate someone who finds a wreck that's been leaning against someones shed for twelve years, and toils away at it for months turning it into a nice cafe` or bobber. Hats off to those who pay attention to detail, and do quality work.

     I've seen quite a few good original bikes hacked up pretty bad mostly because the new owner, (some young, some not so young) didn't know what they were doing. Too many people think they are "building" something when in fact they are tearing it apart, often times making the bike unsafe. On the positive side; as these types destroy good bikes, they make mine more valuable. 
Keep the Shiny side up!

1987 ZG1000 "King Crimson"
1972 CB750K2 "Stout"
1976 CB500T "Witch's Promise"
1973 CL450K5 Cafe Project
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traveler

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2010, 09:37:29 AM »
Couple of points.

1.  I'm 41 years old.  I'm not a kid.

2.  I cafe'd my bike

Not sure what to think of a guy who JUST JOINED this site, and is ready to start criticizing others.

~Joe

scrapvalue

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2010, 10:08:16 AM »
Built my bike out oif a 1976 CB750 that had been sitting in a basement for 13 yrs.
It had been in a small wreck.
The insturment cluster was missing, the taillight was broke and the rear of the frame where the seat attachs was bent.
Could have made it stock again with much effort and expense so I decided to build something different.
Something I had never seen before and something I build myself.
I sold the gas tank and side covers on ebay and got all but $100 dollars back on my investment.
These parts were used by someone else to make there bike original. I am happy they found a good home.
I have a stock 1972 CB750 also and would never consider molesting it.
But I have way more fun and talk to way more people when I ride the one I built.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2010, 10:21:25 AM »
When I "pimped out" the CB750 I had no idea what he was going to do with it or there is no amount of money he could have paid me to do it. I get bikes from California all the time and just thought he was another rich guy adding to his collection. When he sent me the video I almost had a stroke when I saw what he did. I was merely trying to point out what kind of crazies are out there. I learned from that incident to always ask what the customer intends to do with the bike when it is restored.
Clip

I would've about died, too... but I'm enough of a novice that even pretty easy mechanical stuff is, for me, a learning experience, a major undertaking, or both.  Sometimes I toy with  the idea of selling the 650, but then I think about it and I just don't think I'd be okay with knowing the next person would probably undo a lot of the careful work I've put into it.

I'm with a few others here in seeing both sides of the coin.  While it would really bother me to see a very, very nice specimen chopped and modded (Martino, I'm looking at you!!! ;) :D) if something is already in bad shape and can be improved considerably by being modified (torn up seat replaced with cafe seat, etc) then I'm all for it.  My 650 got the restoration love because you don't see them around very often in good shape.
My 350 is getting modified because everyone had one back in the day.  I'm still keeping the stock tank, sidecovers and seat should I ever want to go back to the exact stock setup, (and my skills don't really allow me to modify the frame) 
People join this forum because they are in love with classics.  That love can go in different directions, from the preservation of classics as they were made, and the modification of the base model into new directions, all built around the original SOHC4 engine. 
...but whatever the form of your affection for these bikes, you're welcome to be part of the forum.
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DaveL

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2010, 10:25:28 AM »
Ahh, this reminds me of my favorite 'T' shirt which says, "Anyone can restore a classic - it takes a real  man to cut one up.

There's room in this world for all of us!

Offline Damfino

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2010, 10:40:57 AM »
Couple of points.

1.  I'm 41 years old.  I'm not a kid.

2.  I cafe'd my bike

Not sure what to think of a guy who JUST JOINED this site, and is ready to start criticizing others.

~Joe


Let's see....when did you join? Hmmm.. a whopping 6 months ago! I don't think we need to use that tone here as I don't see where someone's personal opinion is worth more or less than the oldest forum member. I like the nicely done cafe's as much as the original/restored 750's, but if you take one of those nicely restored or original bikes and start cutting it up....well, I too am gonna cringe. I don't think the problem here is so much with people disliking cafe'd bikes as it is that someone tears into the nicer specimens to build one. So everyone just chill, 'kay?  I don't understand why in a lot of these threads we can't just share our opinions without someone taking it as a personal attack.
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69modelj

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2010, 10:43:44 AM »
I can see what clip is getting at. Some guys are into the stock segment of sohc4 for the passion of it more than others. So I don't consider restoring a bike to stock condition pimping it. Sure, owners can do what they want to their bikes. But who in their right mind would enjoy seeing a thing of beauty that they, (the builder) took time, hard work, and pride in creating, be destroyed for no good reason? Such a waste. This thread is about a passion we all have.
I agree with most that clean examples are best left as stockers.
There's enough rough ones tho, to take in other directions as well. The community can sustain itself by buying/trading parts that each segment needs to sustain itself. There's some real creativity around this community, and it's totally cool what's been done. I guesss what I'm sayin is it's all in where your passion lies. Cooperation and appreciation for what others have done will go a long way towards keepin ALL the "FOURS" alive, stock, bobbed, chopped, or race modified. Kinda like "one hand washes the others", eh?
For the record, both of my fours are totally stock/restored.
But I like 'em all. I'm also a guy who is in it for the passion, and not necessarily for buying /selling classics for more than they're
worth. That just takes the hobby away from those who have the passion, like me.......Faithfully submited, this 24th day of april, 2010,
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Offline kerryb

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2010, 10:51:36 AM »
I am having such a good time!!!!!  There's a cafe in the works too.  And no...I haven't kept track of what's been spent.
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Offline Fritz

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2010, 11:05:33 AM »

I'm nearly as old as the first CB750 now.

I have not yet decided if I will have myself restored to factory condition or rather go for being cafe'd. :P
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Offline Brown Bomber

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2010, 11:19:16 AM »
It's not about showroom restoration, cafe`, or some other type of custom. It's about idiots destroying something somebody else appreciated for the sake of destroying something somebody else appreciated. Just do quality work, if for no other reason than for you own satisfaction.
Keep the Shiny side up!

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1972 CB750K2 "Stout"
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1973 CL450K5 Cafe Project
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Offline SohRon

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2010, 11:54:11 AM »
Quote
It bothered you that much? I used to build race cars. These cars would often end up as scrap. That was part of the business we were in. Luckily there are a ton of other cars out there waiting to get built up again. As for CB750s, there are a ton of them out there and they fewer of them that survive the more value they hold.  

I also grew up in a house hold where modified motorcycles were the norm.  My father was a machinist at Kosman for several years.  Everything he worked on was not stock when it left the shop.  I look at the 350-750 Hondas and see so much room for improvement.  There are so many modern applications that can help these bikes (i.e. Suspension, Brakes, wheels, engine performance).  Half the fun of working on my 350F is thinking of ways to make it more like a modern bike, but still look like a bike of yester-year.

The again growing up in the 80s and 90s if someone were to drive a fully restored Fiero off a cliff, I would applaud the effort.  


I think this is a perfect example of how some are missing the point of this post. Stock car modifications and mods on bikes while growing up aren't typically done with low-mileage thirty-five year old vehicles in near-perfect original stock condition! The odds against a motorcycle surviving that amount of time in that state are pretty high; most have not. Sure, there are still others out there, but for how long? Seen any Model T Fords lately with only 11,000 original miles on it? In pristine condition? When will the last stock '750 be turned into a racer?

And, for one particular bike to have survived so well for so many years, someone had to have been real kind to it. To spend that much effort meticulously caring for that bike, the owner must have been pretty proud of it, and you have to respect them for that; watching it being hacked into pieces would be like getting a slap in the face.

I'm currently restoring a '74 Cb550 to stock, but I'm not fooling myself that it will ever be as valuable as an unrestored original in good condition, no matter how pretty I make mine look; that's the difference between the maker's hand and a poser. Watch the auto auctions like Mecum's where unrestored cars are going for hundreds of thousands of dollars compared to considerably less for the restored and resto-mods; or even Antiques Roadshow, for that matter. While I'll admit there's a big difference between a cherry '68 Shelby GT and a '76 Honda 750, the mantra still rings pretty clear: if it is at least a generation old and in good original condition, don't farg it up! Especially if it's a relatively expendable item like a motorcycle or car that ages quickly just from normal use.

One thing I've noticed getting older is that I've become more appreciative of history, both my own and that of the world at large, and maybe that's part of it, too. The more things change, the more high-tech things become, the easier it is to remember times that were a little less complicated and perhaps easier for some of us to comprehend. Motorcycles like the CB750 certainly are a prime example of how things were put together in those days, and the stock bikes become a little time machine that freezes that moment in history. Screw with it and the history is gone. Screw with them all, and nobody will ever know how to do it right. Hell, the Wright Brother's Flyer in the Smithsonian isn't even precisely correct; when time came to restore the plane, even the Wrights weren't sure how it should go together (as they had made so many modifications to it), so it's a hodgepodge of several different machines...

Sorry about the rant. By the time this particular bike was posted, major destruction had already commenced, so all that was left was to try to encourage making the most out of the mess. The bike certainly deserves that, at the very least. And it may be that some fellow forum member will get some real nice parts for their project, so all is not lost.

I've got nothing against cafes or bobbers; I've seem some truly breathtaking builds by some very talented folks. But the stockers are going fast, and when the last frame is cut, that'll be it.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 11:58:08 AM by SohRon »
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Assembling my '74 CB550: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=86697.0
Assembly of the Right-hand Switch (a rebuilder's guide):  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=80532.0
Installing stock 4X4 exhaust: CB500-CB550 K: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=82323.0
CB550 Assembly Manual: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151576.0.html

Offline eurban

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2010, 01:03:41 PM »
A few random observations . . .
The cafe scene has become cliched and perhaps it should be called the "conforming non conformity"

SOHC owners twenty years from now will be ragging on the PO of their bikes for smashing in dents in their bikes tanks and cutting off all those unnecessary tabs and brackets.

Today's trendy cafes and bobbers will look just as ugly (or cool) to future owners as 70s/80s choppers do to us today

It very easy to hack up a bike and make it less comfortable, less stable, less safe and in general less functional

It requires talent to hack up a bike and improve its overall function (or even to a specific purpose like racing)

It requires even more talent to make the creation look good and perform better

It is probably worth the loss of a halfway decent stock bike if the builder / hacker learns about engine mechanics, wiring, welding, measuring, cutting, painting, polishing etc etc. . . . .
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 02:39:12 PM by eurban »

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2010, 01:05:37 PM »
I love MCRider's build, Phaedrus... He's improving on the bike in so many ways, both in carrying capacity (I think he intends to mount luggage, but I'm not sure?) performance AND riding comfort, while keeping it relatively stock and very clean. 
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Offline Grnrngr

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2010, 01:41:10 PM »
Not sure what to think of a guy who JUST JOINED this site, and is ready to start criticizing others
Seems to me he hit a nerve...I started my first reply before any others were posted and by the time I finished my note, there were prolly 7 other replies.Again, as I type this out, there have been three or four more. Didn't sound like he was criticizing anyone other than the guy who ran the bike off the cliff, just venting frustration that something like that had happened. Personally, I felt the same every time I watched Dukes of Hazzard destroy another pristine 68 Charger. My point was that no matter what you do to it to make it more to your liking, a fair amount of effort is involved and should be appreciated for what it is, rather than what anyone else thinks it should be. It's cool that so far, we've kept the peace and refrained from insults as happens in other us/them threads. And props to Clip, not many folks get two pages of replies from their first post. Lastly, and not being critical, at 41, yer still a youngster in my book... ;D
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Offline Caaveman82

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2010, 01:50:06 PM »
Have you ever used a highlighter in a text book? Have you ever stained your furnature a different color then the color it came? Did you ever draw on the cover of a note book?

These are all things that people do every day that is not what the manufacturer had originally intended. Doesn't make it wrong.

If you spend your money on a motorcycle you don't owe it to anyone to keep it the way it is. You can do what ever you like with it. You fellas that are hollaring about how it is a classic and it is wrong to modify the motorcycle are just trying to hang on to an era that has passed. Yes these motorcycles paved the way for what motorcycling is today but that has nothing to do with how they are used and operated today.
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Offline mycb750k6

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2010, 02:30:14 PM »
I just knew this would turn into an interesting thread. Probably as many points of view on the topic as CB750s on the road today. And to clarify a point, 400,000 between 69 and 76, not millions.

Offline mcuozzo

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2010, 02:42:37 PM »
I think this thread just points out the brilliance in the original design of the cb750.  It can be all things to all people - reasonably cheap, simple daily transportation, a chopper/bobber or a cafe racer.   It was that way in the 70's and it still is today.

That being said, I wouldn't chop or cafe a bike if it was in very good stock condition.

My chopper is being built from a $100 frame and a $100 non titled parts bike.  Unfortunately I'm falling down the slippery slope and my dream of a $1500 custom chopper is slowly become a $5000 custom chopper  ;D


Offline dhall57

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2010, 02:48:28 PM »
If someones only intent when buying one of these original surviving CB's is to start changing it and tearing it apart as soon as it rolls of the trailer because they don't like the look, style, performance, or handle of a 40 year old bike than why in the heck buy it in the first place. Seems like logical thinking to me.
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2010, 02:53:18 PM »
When I "pimped out" the CB750 I had no idea what he was going to do with it or there is no amount of money he could have paid me to do it. I get bikes from California all the time and just thought he was another rich guy adding to his collection. When he sent me the video I almost had a stroke when I saw what he did. I was merely trying to point out what kind of crazies are out there. I learned from that incident to always ask what the customer intends to do with the bike when it is restored.
Clip

Can we at least see the video ;)

Offline jkp41

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2010, 03:31:35 PM »
I do understand where the OP comes from when he states that it saddens him to see one of these machines destroyed. As a huge car/motorcycle/anything motorized-guy, I hate seeing anything form of transportation wasted. For instance, I almost cry every time I see an early corvette that has been destroyed/neglected to the point of no return.

However, I don't share his opinion on "my" generation's modifications of these bikes. It almost comes across that he views this as destroying another CB. Someone said that ~400,000 CB's were built between 1969-1976. Of these, I would be willing to bet that more bikes have been destroyed by wrecks and neglect than will ever be modified into cafes/choppers/bobbers/etc. It also seems that most people that do these modifications would not do so to a pristine, original example, but rather chooses an example that would take a lot of work to get back to original condition. Many of these being basket cases. With this in mind, I see most every CB on this site that has been converted as the preservation of another motorcycle, rather than its destruction. By taking a machine that is on the verge of being no longer street worthy and creating something that they proudly drive, how is this a bad thing? It keeps the bike on the road for at least the length of time that that person cares for it. I wasn't born when these machines were being produced, yet I looked for a CB of decent running shape to cafe. I'm 26, yet most motorcycles currently being produced have very little appeal to me. This should be a point of pride to the people that were around when these bikes were on the showroom floor; a bike that still draws new fans 40 years after it was designed.

My bike is in decent shape, but its by no means a perfect stock bike. However, if someone that was simply looking for a cheap bike that they didn't really care about had bought it, this bike could be beyond salvage in very little time. After I get done with it, it may not be immediately recognizeable as a CB to the lay person, but it will be in much better mechanical shape than before I had it. I look at it as me keeping another CB on the road, because regardless of ANY modifications I do to it, I will never be able to make it anything other than a CB750. If I do ever think that the machine that I am creating i no longer appealing to me, I can "rescue" a non-running parts and start back over from scratch.

Long story short, I simply fail to see how keeping a motorcycle on the road, irregardless of looks, is seen as destructive. I don't ask anyone to like the styles that I like. However, I do ask that they respect the ability of those that do create wonderful examples of these machines (whether it be a stock restoration or a modified frame cafe/chopper), and appreciate the fact that they kept another motorcycle on the road.

sorry for the rant  ;)

Offline camelman

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2010, 03:35:46 PM »
Clip, congratulations on starting such a successful post on your first attempt.  Many long time members strive for this type of post "traction" but never seem to boil enough blood.  My helmet goes off to you.

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Offline Carbine

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2010, 04:34:00 PM »

Can we at least see the video ;)
[/quote]

Yes, where is the video? A CB750 snuff film....? Sounds like something from the back page of Easyriders circa 1984.  

 
  
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 04:35:46 PM by Carbine »
'76 750 K6 Candy Antares Red
'75 750 F0 Candy Sapphire Blue
'74 750 K4 Boss Maroon Metallic
'73 750 K3 Maxim Brown Metallic 
'72 750 K2 Flake Sunrise Orange

Offline igraul

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Re: Cutting up Classics
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2010, 04:36:35 PM »
I bought a 750/4 because I wanted a motorcycle that was reliable and affordable. My motorcycle might have been a good candidate for restoration. I don't intend to take a cutting torch to the frame, but I'm also not parked on ebay looking for the correct left foot peg rubber either. It has clubman bars on it, but it's no faithful vintage cafe whatever...it IS the motorcycle I like to ride, on the budget I can currently assign to it.

If I could afford a newer bike that I could work on just as efficiently and affordably, I might have bought one (I love the look of Honda's '08 liter.) That said, I've been around the country on my K1; Gonna ride another 2K miles in about a week, and I couldn't be happier with it. Never had a problem with it that I didn't cause myself.  ;D

All of that to say, I bought a motorcycle to ride a motorcycle. Do I appreciate the amazing engineering and design? Absolutely, but mostly in so much as the engineering and design allow me to ride the d@mn thing from A to B. Not interested in a motorcycle too original or too pretty or too expensive to put my @ss on and ride.