Topic: Is it true? Europeans.....

[bender01]

http://www.islandpacket.com/2011/01/28/1528129/bill-in-support-of-traffic-camera.html
 We just got them here on I-95. Lots of talk about privacy and all! I think they are here to stay! Funny though someone totaled a cam (drunk?) and they couldnt find that guy

[BeSeeingYou]

We have speed and red light camera's in Australia, it really surprises me that some of you have never heard of them because our camera's come from the US.....We have had them for years and they do sweet #$%* all to help the road toll, they are just another Government revenue raiser. I heard they are being systematically taken down in some parts of the UK for this very reason.

Mick

That's because we shipped them all to your country.  No need to thank us.  This discussion has been brought up before and I posted this link about speed cameras being torched in the U.K.  I have not seen speed cameras in Minnesota. They did put in red light cameras but they did not stand up to court challenges and were removed.  It could not be proved who was driving the car.  I don't see how speed cameras could stand up to a court challenge either.  Maybe at the local level but not at the Federal Supreme Court. It is clearly unconstitutional.

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

[Roach]

http://www.islandpacket.com/2011/01/28/1528129/bill-in-support-of-traffic-camera.html
 We just got them here on I-95. Lots of talk about privacy and all! I think they are here to stay! Funny though someone totaled a cam (drunk?) and they couldnt find that guy

so stupid that peoples privacy is a issue with the cameras if your doing what your supposed to ie.. not running reds then what is there to worry about.

same thing goes for the securty cameras if your not robbing old ladies, dealing drugs or picking up hookers whats there to worry about they are there for your safety

[BeSeeingYou]

http://www.islandpacket.com/2011/01/28/1528129/bill-in-support-of-traffic-camera.html
 We just got them here on I-95. Lots of talk about privacy and all! I think they are here to stay! Funny though someone totaled a cam (drunk?) and they couldnt find that guy

so stupid that peoples privacy is a issue with the cameras if your doing what your supposed to ie.. not running reds then what is there to worry about.

same thing goes for the securty cameras if your not robbing old ladies, dealing drugs or picking up hookers whats there to worry about they are there for your safety

The issue is you can't prove who was driving.  The reality is that the car gets the ticket and the owner is on the hook whether they were driving it or not.  The other issue that caused so many of them to be burned in the U.K was that they were placed in locations purely as revenue generators.  Places where they were placed too close to an abrupt speed change or locations were they had recently altered speed limits and signs were poorly placed, etc.

[Retro Rocket]

We have speed and red light camera's in Australia, it really surprises me that some of you have never heard of them because our camera's come from the US.....We have had them for years and they do sweet #$%* all to help the road toll, they are just another Government revenue raiser. I heard they are being systematically taken down in some parts of the UK for this very reason.

Mick

That's because we shipped them all to your country.  No need to thank us.  This discussion has been brought up before and I posted this link about speed cameras being torched in the U.K.  I have not seen speed cameras in Minnesota. They did put in red light cameras but they did not stand up to court challenges and were removed.  It could not be proved who was driving the car.  I don't see how speed cameras could stand up to a court challenge either.  Maybe at the local level but not at the Federal Supreme Court. It is clearly unconstitutional.

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

They solved that problem here by charging the owner of the car. They said that the car was definitely used to run the light and if the owner couldn't prove that he wasn't driving then he gets the fine.....Simple really...

Mick

[ivanhoew]

it occurs to my peabrain ,that the q of paranoia is a bit blurry .eg ,

 if someone runs around with a gun in england  , i think there would be a much bigger reaction than in usa .so you could say we are more gun paranoid .

if ,as is the case , a rash of cameras are insalled in towns and motorways etc .its not really a problem , but in usa it might be a bigger deal ?

i think each society has sensitivites in different areas depending on thier cultures .

one thing  contributing to the usa sensitivity is all the conspiricy based films, from hollywood, seem to based on the usa government .this must have a subconcious effect on a media based society, that encourages distrust and paranoia.

another thing is the litigation that goes on ,that must really encourage distrust and insecurity ,which from what one reads about who can sue whom ,seems quite justifiable .

perhaps sometimes the paranoia is just a state of realistic awareness?

another thing that comes into it is the basic cultural differences between countries , the emotionalism level is quite different  between the usa and england .not saying one is better than another , just that free reign being given to emotions can have a paranoia increasing effect .its a yin and yang thing ,it can also increase levels of support and enthusiasm ,which i see in the forums being much higher in the usa than in the uk .the uk tends slightly towards the ''it'll never work'' attitude ...the usa seems to tend towards the ''itll work or if it does 'nt ,its been a bloody good hoot so what the hell''.

i much prefer the latter !:)

regards robert (nomexed up )

[Retro Rocket]

if someone runs around with a gun in england  , i think there would be a much bigger reaction than in usa .so you could say we are more gun paranoid .

Doesn't work like that, you have to have guns first to be paranoid about them.....Most people would be paranoid if they saw someone running around with a gun.....

Mick

[Gordon]

http://www.islandpacket.com/2011/01/28/1528129/bill-in-support-of-traffic-camera.html
 We just got them here on I-95. Lots of talk about privacy and all! I think they are here to stay! Funny though someone totaled a cam (drunk?) and they couldnt find that guy

so stupid that peoples privacy is a issue with the cameras if your doing what your supposed to ie.. not running reds then what is there to worry about.

same thing goes for the securty cameras if your not robbing old ladies, dealing drugs or picking up hookers whats there to worry about they are there for your safety

Ever heard of a slippery slope?

The main problem isn't immediately obvious to some.  Cameras, and laws, and restrictions are slowly introduced into society, and rights are slowly taken away all "For Your Safety" of course .  And then an extremist political movement gains enough support to take control of the government and fully exploits and abuses all of these things that were put into place "for your safety" by their predecessors.  

We're a very "right now" society, but when it comes to things like personal safety we need to be thinking much more long-term.  I'll happily live without speed cameras and security cameras watching out for me 24 hours a day if it means there's one less resource for a corrupt government to take advantage of when trying to completely control my life.  

[BeSeeingYou]

We have speed and red light camera's in Australia, it really surprises me that some of you have never heard of them because our camera's come from the US.....We have had them for years and they do sweet #$%* all to help the road toll, they are just another Government revenue raiser. I heard they are being systematically taken down in some parts of the UK for this very reason.

Mick

That's because we shipped them all to your country.  No need to thank us.  This discussion has been brought up before and I posted this link about speed cameras being torched in the U.K.  I have not seen speed cameras in Minnesota. They did put in red light cameras but they did not stand up to court challenges and were removed.  It could not be proved who was driving the car.  I don't see how speed cameras could stand up to a court challenge either.  Maybe at the local level but not at the Federal Supreme Court. It is clearly unconstitutional.

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

They solved that problem here by charging the owner of the car. They said that the car was definitely used to run the light and if the owner couldn't prove that he wasn't driving then he gets the fine.....Simple really...

Mick

This is the issue as to why these things don't fly here.  You do not have to prove your innocence.  You have to be proven guilty.  These cameras do not pass this basic legal test.  It is one of our fundamental rights enshrined in our Constitution.

As has been mentioned in a few other posts it has nothing to do with paranoia or conspiracy theories it is a basic legal right.

[andy750]

This is the issue as to why these things don't fly here.  You do not have to prove your innocence.  You have to be proven guilty.  These cameras do not pass this basic legal test.  It is one of our fundamental rights enshrined in our Constitution.

As has been mentioned in a few other posts it has nothing to do with paranoia or conspiracy theories it is a basic legal right.

Er not quite Srust.

"Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments. See also Coffin v. United States and In re Winship."

Taken from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

The Presumption of Innocence is not unique to the USA and applies just as well to European countries.

[Gordon]

Here in Texas a ticket from getting caught by a red light camera is a civil citation rather than a criminal one.  I don't know if it's the same in other states, but requirements for proving guilt vs. innocence are different. 

[Retro Rocket]

The Presumption of Innocence is not unique to the USA and applies just as well to European countries.

Exactly, the simple fact that the car has run a light makes it the responsibility of the owner, if the owner wasn't driving then he has to prove that. It is common here for a friend or family member to take the "points" if the driver is low {or high depending on where you live}, if that is the case then anyone can "absorb" the points, this isn't legal but is wide spread...

Mick

[BeSeeingYou]

Here in Texas a ticket from getting caught by a red light camera is a civil citation rather than a criminal one.  I don't know if it's the same in other states, but requirements for proving guilt vs. innocence are different.  

   I find this interesting as I stated before they were taken down here because they did not stand up to a court challenge.  I would very much agree with your post about the slippery slope.  It just boggles my mind that people would accept these devices.  Allowing the State to chip away at rights for some perceived safety reason.
   And while I would agree that the Presumption of Innocence applies to most democracies I just don't see how you can square it with the use of these devices. Down with tyranny......burn the f..kers wherever they are.

[Retro Rocket]

Here in Texas a ticket from getting caught by a red light camera is a civil citation rather than a criminal one.  I don't know if it's the same in other states, but requirements for proving guilt vs. innocence are different.  

   I find this interesting as I stated before they were taken down here because they did not stand up to a court challenge.  I would very much agree with your post about the slippery slope.  It just boggles my mind that people would accept these devices.  Allowing the State to chip away at rights for some perceived safety reason.
   And while I would agree that the Presumption of Innocence applies to most democracies I just don't see how you can square it with the use of these devices. Down with tyranny......burn the f..kers wherever they are.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Mick

[Gordon]

1 gas-soaked tire + 1 speed camera = dead speed camera.

[-CB-Jamie-]

Here in Ireland if your car is picked up by a speeding camera you get a fine in the post and 2 points on your license. There is a pic from the speeding camera of your car and the driver can usually be made out in the pic so if you were not driving at the time you can dispute and lay the blame on the person who was actually driving as they can be made out in the pic.

In the last few months they have brought in new cameras which can even pick up wether the driver has a seatbelt on or not as it is illegal to drive here without a seatbelt. 2 points on your license for driving without a seatbelt.

Once you get any points they stay on your license for three years.
Receive 12 points on your license and your off the road for 6 months.

Have a look here for some offences in Ireland and the fine amount and points amount:
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/accidents-gardai-and-penalties/penalty-points-fixed-charge-offences/index.html

They also now have ''mobile speed cameras'' which are just a small van fully equiped with a speed camera which can be parked anywhere at the side of the road and moved around easily from day to day.

''Mobile speed camera in Ireland''


The Irish government are a bunch of robbing b@stards and they will do absolutely anything that will make them money normally so they're usually very up to date on these kinds of things usually while screwing the average joe in the process. You can barely take a dump in this country without some form of tax being slapped on ya for it.

[paulages]

I have a few questions about European countries:
1-is it true England has 1/300 camera per person for surviellance?
2-you can receive speeding, stoplight and or seatbelt violation tickets via mail/post?
3-are there really areas that have weight scales on highways that measure weight at highway speeds?
4-is it possible to jam cameras that catch you speeding?
5-why are Europeans less paranoid than Americans?

peace,3
michel

My experience from touring Europe and driving ourselves around..

1) No idea.

2) Yes, definitely. The GPS devices all tell you where the cameras are, but we invariably get an email after tour telling us that we owe some money for some speeding ticket while we had the van. Netherlands in particular has lots of traffic cameras, but they are all over Europe.

3) We haven't had it happen, but I've heard of bands getting stopped for being overweight and made to lose merchandise or face a steep fine.

4) See GPS comment..

5) Who's paraniod??? Are you talking to me?? How do you know my name?

[Accolay]

We had red light cameras in Minnesota, but they were struck down by the MN State Supreme Court.

This is getting away from the "no politics" agenda of this area, but why do we care about cameras in America when the government can tap you without a warrant?

[Grnrngr]

Yeah...we got 'em but even kids that don;t drive don't want 'em...

http://www.kgw.com/home/Should-Voters-or-Cities-decide-on-Red-Light-Cameras-114839299.html

[Gordon]

The trend in Texas seems to be going toward making red light cameras illegal, so I don't see much of a future here for speed cameras.

Even if they don't make them illegal they'll probably at least make it legal to shoot at them.

[Freaky1]

Red light cameras in Denver are a rather common sight anymore. But most of our intersections have a countdown timer next to the flashing "Don't Walk" sign that tells you how long until the light changes from green. I pay far more attention to the countdown timer than the red light cameras.

I wish the speeding camera vans in Denver were as brightly colored as the ones in Ireland!
Ours our white and aside from the flood light by the door it looks just like a regular van.

Personally I don't care if the video cameras in the parking lots of major shopping centers, inside the stores, on the interstate, or at the airport film me, I gave up all my illegal activities years ago. 

[Retro Rocket]

The trend in Texas seems to be going toward making red light cameras illegal

I can understand that with speed camera's especially if they are placed like they are here, even on bridges {lots of smashes on the bridge } so a lot of those are revenue raising but red light camera's are great IMO, #$%*ing idiots that run red lights need shooting, it is excessively stupid and extremely dangerous so why would everyone #$%* about them...?

Mick

[Freaky1]

So you think you want to run a red light??

http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s182/Freaky1247/?action=view&current=TrucksAlwaysWin.mp4

[mark]

I got a speeding ticket after being caught by a camera.
I asked them to send me proof that it was my car and the speed I was doing.
They sent me a photo of my car traveling at 5mph over the speed limit.
I couldn't argue with that and decided to pay up.
I sent them a ...................................



photo of my money

Sam.

someone tried that here.

he paid up when The Man sent back a pic of handcuffs.

 

Touche, that could probably be one-upped again but the costs do nothing but go exponentially up from there.

send back a pic of a file and see what happens.

[TwoTired]

Personally I don't care if the video cameras in the parking lots of major shopping centers, inside the stores, on the interstate, or at the airport film me, I gave up all my illegal activities years ago. 

You just don't get the concept of government intrusion into your personal life.  And, how creeping escalation will eventually put monitors in your bedroom, bathroom, and auto just in case you might do something illegal while there.

...All to make your safety the number one concern.