Author Topic: Pods Thread  (Read 129552 times)

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Offline gregwaits

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Pods Thread
« on: April 22, 2007, 07:22:55 pm »
I know that there are different brands of the air cleaner pods I am looking for. I am looking to replace the stock air cleaner set up on my cb500 and cb550. What is the cheapest source for these pods? I hear that they can be had for somewhere around $10 each.

1978 CB750K8; 1970 CB450

liaudio

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Re: Source for individual air pods for CB500/550
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2007, 08:31:24 pm »
honestly, although they clean the look of the bike up, they are tricky to dial in.  The carbs really weren't meant for that much airflow and tuning them can get frustrating. 

I'd recommend just getting a factory replacement element and keeping the stock airbox.  It'll run you about $10. 

If you're dead-set on getting the pods, they can be had for about $40 for four on eBay.  But plan on getting larger main jets as well.  (between $20-$30.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CB750-Performance-Air-Filters-KZ650-CB550-39mm_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35597QQihZ009QQitemZ190104117372QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Offline doug_id

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Offline gregwaits

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Re: Source for individual air pods for CB500/550
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2007, 08:18:44 am »
Thanks!
1978 CB750K8; 1970 CB450

Offline mcpuffett

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pods v standard air box.
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 03:46:03 am »
just thought i would share this with you all , i have recently rebuilt one of my 750's with a f1 engine, i was running pods, 125 main jets & hm341 pipes , it would pull great to about 50/60 mph then it would start holding back and bog if you tried to give it more gas,    i tried messing with the air screws but it made no difference, so last night i pulled the carbs to see were the needle clip was set & if they were all the same,    they were on the fourth notch down so i moved them up one to the middle setting & i also bench set the carbs with a 1/8 th drill bit,   i refitted the standard air box without a filter as i don't have one at the moment & took the bike out for a ride,   what a difference it pulls like a train now and no bogging  8), next things to do are order a air filter and do a plug chop or 2 and set the carbs up with the vacuum gauges :).  I originally thought i would run pods on this bike as i already run pods on my other 750 f1 & that has 125 main jets but a 4 into 1 exhaust and that runs great set up that way  ;), i don't know if it's because the pod filters are different makes or if it to do with the exhausts that one is happy with pods and one is'nt ?.   I'm just happy that i'm finally getting all my issues sorted out and i will be able to ride it to death  :),   cheers mick.   
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Offline Short Round

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 06:37:56 am »
I wonder if after you moved the needle clips to the middle if the pods would ahve had the same result as the airbox.  Just a thought oh and what kind of exhaist is on this bike?....................Chris
1974 CB550

Offline mcpuffett

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2007, 08:28:47 am »
Hi chris, it has the standard honda 4 into 4 pipes, i might try the pods back on just to see if there is any difference? cheers mick.
Honda CB750 KO 1970,   Honda VTX 1300 2006, Lancaster England.

Offline Soos

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2007, 10:30:15 am »
Were your pods clean?
And did the bike peter out in all gears at a max RPM, or was it just at around 50-60mph?

If the pods are used, then you might want to re-clean them before using again(if you try them on that bike again), and oil them properly.

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Offline gregwaits

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Locating useable air pods for CB500
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2007, 09:13:03 am »
I bought a set of Emgo air pods from dennis kirk, after being assured by the email clerk that they would fit the CB500 frame. Nope they don't. Oh well. No big deal, I have them sold now anyway.

A friend told me that there is another affordable type that are flatter in appearance. (he calls them pancaks filters). He told me that they sold for around $20 for the set. I have had no luck finding anything about these.

I looked at the UNI brand. At cyclepages.com they offer sets specifically marketed to the cb500 but they run just under $50 for a set of 4.

Anyone here have the UNIs? Comments?

Thanks!
1978 CB750K8; 1970 CB450

Offline number13

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Re: Locating useable air pods for CB500
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2007, 10:09:20 am »
Hey Gregwaits -

I have the Uni filters on my 500, they are a perfect fit
and offer better filtering, since they are oiled foam instead
of paper. Two thumbs up for them!!
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Offline gregwaits

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Re: Locating useable air pods for CB500
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 11:51:46 am »
Thanks! I guess I will have to start budgeting for the higher price set.
1978 CB750K8; 1970 CB450

Offline mlinder

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Pods for 350f
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2007, 11:02:06 am »
Anyone know an online retailer that sells pods small enough for the carbs on a 350f?
No.


jesusno2

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Re: Pods for 350f
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2007, 01:41:31 pm »
what size do they need to be I can possibly get some.

Offline mlinder

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Re: Pods for 350f
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2007, 02:09:55 pm »
i think they are 26's...
But i need to check for sure.
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Offline SOHC4ever

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2007, 04:14:52 pm »
Pulling this thread out of the pile, because I'm having similar problems.

The engine is a K3, and since switching to pods the bike wants to bog at higher speeds. The mechanic at the shop said with some kind of conviction that the pods weren't capable of creating the kind of air pressure that the carbs need to get the mixture through at the proper pace, and recommended that I re-install the air-box.

I'm having trouble getting that &^$#*& on, maybe the rubbers have shrunk, I dunno, so I'm dealing with it for now.

Do any of the vets have anything comments on whether or not there's anything to the air pressure idea?

Thx.

Incidentally, does anyone know where to get a decent vacuum gauge for syncing the carbs? You know, the kind with 4 dials that you hang between the mirrors?

Offline andy750

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2007, 04:34:27 pm »
To make it easier to get your airbox on (and it is easy) get new rubbers!!! Once you have these (they are very cheap considering) its a breeze  ;)

For synch carbs I have a Morgan Carbtune II which myself and others have had great success with (and its very easy) - hangs from bars and away you go...

good luck,
Andy

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Offline Jinxracing

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2007, 04:38:37 pm »
Unless you're running some kind of forced-induction setup nothing in your intake system is going to "create air pressure". Sounds like you're having the same issues as most of the pod-people  ;D...pods allow more air to flow through the carbs, so your once-balanced jetting is now out of whack. If you rejet so that more fuel is added to regain that balance, you should (in theory anyways) make more power.

If I'm mistaken about any of the above please feel free to beat me about the head and shoulders with my own ignorance.  ;)
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2007, 05:15:28 pm »
It may be difficult or impossible to re-install the stock airbox if you've got other modifications going on.  I have a "Glass From the Past" fiberglass cafe seat mounted to my frame, and the stock airbox would interfere with the mounting system.

There's also the fact that some bikes (77-78 CB550K) have overly-lean jetting from the factory and thus run too hot with stock jetting and airbox.  For the longevity of my engine, I'd like to re-jet anyway, so why not do it for pods rather than the ugly, cumbersome, airbox that gets in the way of my cafe seat?

Yes, it is work, and I've considered reverting several times out of frustration, but I'm such a fool that I'm starting to view this as a challenge.  I really want my bike to run right, cooler than stock, and more horsepower than stock with pods.  So, I'm committed to figuring out the jetting properly, even if by tedious trial and error.
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Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

VitaminCB550

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2007, 09:26:40 pm »
just thought i would share this with you all , i have recently rebuilt one of my 750's with a f1 engine, i was running pods, 125 main jets & hm341 pipes , it would pull great to about 50/60 mph then it would start holding back and bog if you tried to give it more gas,    i tried messing with the air screws but it made no difference, so last night i pulled the carbs to see were the needle clip was set & if they were all the same,    they were on the fourth notch down so i moved them up one to the middle setting & i also bench set the carbs with a 1/8 th drill bit,   i refitted the standard air box without a filter as i don't have one at the moment & took the bike out for a ride,   what a difference it pulls like a train now and no bogging  8), next things to do are order a air filter and do a plug chop or 2 and set the carbs up with the vacuum gauges :).  I originally thought i would run pods on this bike as i already run pods on my other 750 f1 & that has 125 main jets but a 4 into 1 exhaust and that runs great set up that way  ;), i don't know if it's because the pod filters are different makes or if it to do with the exhausts that one is happy with pods and one is'nt ?.   I'm just happy that i'm finally getting all my issues sorted out and i will be able to ride it to death  :),   cheers mick.   

what color are the plugs? Have you tried going up with the mains?

Also (to everyone): What is stock needle position... and what are those pipes mcpuff speaks of?

Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2007, 10:01:02 pm »
Vitamin: HM341s are the stock Honda 4-4 pipes

SOHC 4ever: The mechanic you spoke to was talking crap, the pods will help the bike make more power at high rpm, if only because they are allowing the engine to beath better, but only if the carbs are properly set up to suit them ;)
What the mechanic is probably trying to talk about is inlet tract length. Generally a longer tract (such as you get with the stock airbox), will help an engine generate more torque at lower rpm, but will restrict it's ability to rev freely in the higher ranges.
With an SOHC though, the losses and gains from tract length are marginal at best, because there isn't that long a run to the airbox anyway ::)
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Offline neil young

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2007, 11:22:00 pm »
It may be difficult or impossible to re-install the stock airbox if you've got other modifications going on.  I have a "Glass From the Past" fiberglass cafe seat mounted to my frame, and the stock airbox would interfere with the mounting system.

There's also the fact that some bikes (77-78 CB550K) have overly-lean jetting from the factory and thus run too hot with stock jetting and airbox.  For the longevity of my engine, I'd like to re-jet anyway, so why not do it for pods rather than the ugly, cumbersome, airbox that gets in the way of my cafe seat?

Yes, it is work, and I've considered reverting several times out of frustration, but I'm such a fool that I'm starting to view this as a challenge.  I really want my bike to run right, cooler than stock, and more horsepower than stock with pods.  So, I'm committed to figuring out the jetting properly, even if by tedious trial and error.
so if i add pods to my 77 550 should the lean condition straighten out ???
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2007, 11:31:31 pm »
No, pods allow for more air!  even leaner.......

It's a big picture.
Air:  "pods more" "box + filter less"
Fuel: Pods need more fuel "bigger jets"
Exhaust: depends on what you use.......
Carbs: wave the magic wand and sync them once you have it all together, then start again

It all has to come together at once in one major breakthrough that no one can really explain ;D

This was meant to make you feel more human and to let you know you are not the 1st to go through this.
There are quite a few threads under the search "pods" that may be of more technical use for your particular bike.

Good luck with it, won't take more than a week I promise ;D

Offline neil young

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2007, 11:49:23 pm »
thx seaweb ;)
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2007, 12:23:17 am »
The engine is a K3, and since switching to pods the bike wants to bog at higher speeds. The mechanic at the shop said with some kind of conviction that the pods weren't capable of creating the kind of air pressure that the carbs need to get the mixture through at the proper pace, and recommended that I re-install the air-box.

Do any of the vets have anything comments on whether or not there's anything to the air pressure idea?

The mechanic didn't explain it well, but he is essentially correct.
A little background:
Draw on your experience with a straw in a glass of water.  Liquid doesn't flow up the straw until you apply negative pressure (suction) on the straw with your mouth.  The more negative pressure you apply, the more volume of liquid you are able to extract from the glass.

The slow and main jet are, in essence, tubes with an orifice in it.  One end of the tube is immersed in fuel (the float bowl reservior of the carburetor) and the other end is exposed to the carburetor throat.  Each intake stroke of the cylinder creates negative pressure in the carb throat, and that negative pressure pulls fuel through the jet orifices.  The deeper the negative pressure, the more fuel is pulled through the fuel jets.

The carb throat is part of yet another tube that goes from the air filter to the cylinder intake valve.
When the intake stroke occurs, the depth of the negative pressure within the tube is related to the restriction offered to its passage.  You have to suck harder on a small tube to inhale the same amount of air as you could get from a larger tube.  When you exercise, you breathe through your open mouth rather than just your nose, as it allows you to fill you lungs easier.  The mouth passage offers less restriction to the inrush of air.  The filter media offers a restriction to air passage in the carb throat tube, and the more restricted the entrance becomes, the deeper the negative pressure gets.

The stock filter and air box is generally thought to be more restrictive than individual pod type filters, partly because the stock filter traps smaller particles than the pod types do.  The factory selected fuel metering jets based on the depth of negative carb throat pressure that is achieved with the stock air filter.  Reducing the depth of negative throat pressure with an aftermarket filter that offers less resistance to airflow also makes the factory selected fuel metering jet orifices flow less fuel.

This is why changing to pod type air filters, often requires larger fuel metering jets.  If you don't want to change metering jets, then restore the factory designed filter and air box.

Finding the correct jets and needle positions for pods can take time, trial and error, or a Dyno run or two to get all throttle positions at proper mixture.  The cheapest and fastest path to getting the bike to run correctly is to put the stock filter and air box back on, as the Honda factory has already made the correct jetting selections that enable the bike to run correctly.  I'm sure if you wanted to pay your mechanic for 10-40 hours of work experimenting with your carbs and tracking down the correct parts, he might be persuaded to rejet your carbs for you.  But, I think he offered you the cheapest solution to your current problem.

If you are determined to run pods, turn your air screws in about 1/8 to 1/4 turn, raise the throttle valve needles one clip position, and increase your main jet by 005 or 010 larger than what you have now. (They are stamped on the jet body).  Vacuum synchronize the carbs and drive it to see if you've cured the "bog" problem.  You might also learn to read spark plug deposits, as they are your window to combustion conditions within the cylinder.

You can get the dial vacuum guages as a set from JCWhitney.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline eurban

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2007, 05:19:00 am »
Never seen a Dynojet kit for any of the SOHCs except perhaps the CV carbed 650s.  The "pods allow more air and when combined with more fuel mean a better performing bike" argument is a bit simplistic.  Are you going for maximum high RPM performance?  Are you looking for a cool sleek hot rod look?  If so, pods with properly tuned carbs should offer you good results.  Or are you looking for all around performance with consistently (in high winds and in rain etc)  good driveability?  You will probably get better results with the factory airbox. . . . . .
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 05:27:10 am by eurban »