Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 870179 times)

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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/22/12 w/ new pics
« Reply #2425 on: July 27, 2012, 06:58:06 PM »
Ron,glad to hear it's /was /will be a runner soon! My .02,use Kenny's MLS gaskets,torque to at least 20ft/lbs! Hell of a build bro! 8),Bill
P.S. wouldn't recommend those guides next time. ::),once again,just my .02.Good Luck and keep us posted!Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron,sorry,I posted before I read the last couple of pages,A CB450K stand from that era bolts right on,has proper angle and fits and looks good. :)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 10:20:32 AM by Bill/BentON Racing »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/22/12 w/ new pics
« Reply #2426 on: July 29, 2012, 05:51:47 PM »
Ron,glad to hear it's /was /will be a runner soon! My .02,use Kenny's MLS gaskets,torque to at least 20ft/lbs! Hell of a build bro! 8),Bill
P.S. wouldn't recommend those guides next time. ::),once again,just my .02.Good Luck and keep us posted!Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron,sorry,I posted before I read the last couple of pages,A CB450K stand from that era bolts right on,has proper angle and fits and looks good. :)
Thanks Bill, appreciate you looking in on me! 

I may actually have sealed up the leaks by re-torqueing the cylinder head nuts. Several starts and 10 miles and not a drop of oil on the shop floor!

But i may still have a smoking problem. IF ti comes apart for the newer guides rest assured I'll be using the MLS gaskets and more torque.

As to the stand, seems there are several that will bolt in.  But are they shorter? That's my rub. I'll go to eBay now and see if there are any cheap i can score on spec.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/22/12 w/ new pics
« Reply #2427 on: July 29, 2012, 06:47:26 PM »
Found a 73CB450 stand on eBay for cheap. Fingers crossed its shorter. IF not, I'll resell it or cut it up making it shorter.

As for today, in prep for a video, I went to spin some new speed nuts down on the "750Four" emblems. On inspection we see that not nearly enough peg is showing for the nuts to grab on too. So 2 more original parts stand aside for replacement.

So I ordered new OEM from MotoGrid. I didn't really think they were available till someone here said so.

With nice new paint and finish.
And new longer pegs for the nuts.


Balance of the shop time spent polishing it up for "The Video". My nephew came over with his camera. I did a walk around explaining both sides. Then he filmed it starting and driving up and down the street. He's editing it and posting to YouTube, 5 to 10 minutes depends on how much he edits. Should be up tonight or tomorrow.

After an hour of sitting, no oil drips! Maybe the re torquing fixed it? (the visible drip is from the chain.)


Still it may be a smoker, though that seems to be getting better also. Maybe the rings are seating.

The front end is really stiff, and the bounce limits the speed to 50mph. Gotta get that sorted before putting some serious miles on it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 06:50:14 PM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/22/12 w/ new pics
« Reply #2428 on: July 29, 2012, 07:00:49 PM »
Ron,glad to hear it's /was /will be a runner soon! My .02,use Kenny's MLS gaskets,torque to at least 20ft/lbs! Hell of a build bro! 8),Bill
P.S. wouldn't recommend those guides next time. ::),once again,just my .02.Good Luck and keep us posted!Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron,sorry,I posted before I read the last couple of pages,A CB450K stand from that era bolts right on,has proper angle and fits and looks good. :)
Thanks Bill, appreciate you looking in on me! 

I may actually have sealed up the leaks by re-torqueing the cylinder head nuts. Several starts and 10 miles and not a drop of oil on the shop floor!

But i may still have a smoking problem. IF ti comes apart for the newer guides rest assured I'll be using the MLS gaskets and more torque.

As to the stand, seems there are several that will bolt in.  But are they shorter? That's my rub. I'll go to eBay now and see if there are any cheap i can score on spec.

G'Day Ron, I don't know for sure, but I think the 500/550 stands are identical to 750 stands, and I suspect that most of the Honda's from the era had the same stands. I bought a couple from a guy selling CB350 parts, because they were the same as my 750's stand? You know a good welder, so why not get him to shorten one for you? Cheers, Terry. ;D 
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/22/12 w/ new pics
« Reply #2429 on: July 29, 2012, 07:15:40 PM »
Ron,glad to hear it's /was /will be a runner soon! My .02,use Kenny's MLS gaskets,torque to at least 20ft/lbs! Hell of a build bro! 8),Bill
P.S. wouldn't recommend those guides next time. ::),once again,just my .02.Good Luck and keep us posted!Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron,sorry,I posted before I read the last couple of pages,A CB450K stand from that era bolts right on,has proper angle and fits and looks good. :)
Thanks Bill, appreciate you looking in on me! 

I may actually have sealed up the leaks by re-torqueing the cylinder head nuts. Several starts and 10 miles and not a drop of oil on the shop floor!

But i may still have a smoking problem. IF ti comes apart for the newer guides rest assured I'll be using the MLS gaskets and more torque.

As to the stand, seems there are several that will bolt in.  But are they shorter? That's my rub. I'll go to eBay now and see if there are any cheap i can score on spec.

G'Day Ron, I don't know for sure, but I think the 500/550 stands are identical to 750 stands, and I suspect that most of the Honda's from the era had the same stands. I bought a couple from a guy selling CB350 parts, because they were the same as my 750's stand? You know a good welder, so why not get him to shorten one for you? Cheers, Terry. ;D
That's kinda what i thought. Even though a bike may be smaller displacement doesn't mean the stand is shorter.

YEah that's where I'm headed (welder). Just tried some shortcut distractions. I'll get it done here shortly.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/ new pics
« Reply #2430 on: July 30, 2012, 07:59:52 AM »
Video:
Now that its done, I see lots of things I could've done better had i been better prepared. If you want to get right to it, start at 8:40. Otherwise tolerate me talking:

Phaedrus

After we get some more sorting I'll redo it with fire burnouts, and monster wheelies!   ;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 08:01:26 AM by MCRider »
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"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Really?

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2431 on: July 30, 2012, 09:58:57 AM »
We got a movie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

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The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline HonderCB

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2432 on: July 30, 2012, 11:18:31 AM »
SWEET!  Congrats Ron on a beautiful build.
-Scott, just a F'er from Illinois-

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2433 on: July 30, 2012, 11:28:36 AM »


That's great Ron! Makes me sad I won't be here for Phaedrus' inaugural Fall ride. I'm going back to my home state of Illinois come the end of August. Going to be living up near Woodstock, IL. I'll sure miss the Hoosier state and all my SOHC4 friends I've made here.  :'(
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2434 on: July 31, 2012, 12:40:36 AM »
That's looking great Ron, and I liked the commentary, you sound a bit like John Denver to my untrained ear for American dialects?

I don't know if the engine was just cold, but it seems to have a few rattles, almost verging on piston slap? Also, can you synch those Mikuni carbs? It sounds like they're out by a bit, and finally, was it missing a tad?

I just wonder if that oil you're burning is fouling one or two of your plugs? Anyway, fairly normal "teething troubles" on a rebuild, and I'm sure you'll get the engine to run as good as the bike looks! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2435 on: July 31, 2012, 06:17:25 AM »
That's looking great Ron, and I liked the commentary, you sound a bit like John Denver to my untrained ear for American dialects?

I don't know if the engine was just cold, but it seems to have a few rattles, almost verging on piston slap? Also, can you synch those Mikuni carbs? It sounds like they're out by a bit, and finally, was it missing a tad?

I just wonder if that oil you're burning is fouling one or two of your plugs? Anyway, fairly normal "teething troubles" on a rebuild, and I'm sure you'll get the engine to run as good as the bike looks! Cheers, Terry. ;D
Thanks for looking. Came out better than i thought for winging it. Once I really get it sorted, I'd like to redo it with a script.

Yeah there's some ticky tacky's, the cam is 4 and 5thou clearances. The pipe is so quiet lets the motor noise come out. Piston slap? Hope not, anything's possible. Compression is really high, 240psi+, if that means anything.

The VM29s don't really have much of a mechaism for synching without disassembly. Winter project. Other than cleaning and a main jet, they are exactly as they were when I bot them in 1980.

Plugs are likely shot by now. Lots of cold, choked, starts and not much running at higher rpms. The smoking is a lot better, but if it doesn't get a lot better still in the next 50 miles, I'm not playing games, off comes the head and off to Mike's. At this point I really want it to run clean.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2436 on: July 31, 2012, 10:25:30 AM »
I'm  j e a l o u s. Great job! Don't expensive new engines sound nice and tight!  ;) Didn't sound TOO bad to my old deaf ears  ;D

Reminder - with the smaller wheels and the lower exhaust be extra careful going over speed bumps and drive way cuts etc. You don't want to dent that great sounding shiny new exhaust.

I'm hoping that the rings will seat and the smoking will stop. If it doesn't stop after you get a few more miles on it pull the plugs and look for potential problem oily cylinders before you tear into it.

Why is the compression so high?! Do you have 12.5:1 pistons??

Why not install sync ports in the intake manifolds like we're doing with the CR carbs? It was an easy project. 1/8" brass tube connectors with rubber caps. I say that now but I haven't used mine yet. I have a lead on a potential dyno shop in town so I hope to use mine soon.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2437 on: August 01, 2012, 06:46:01 AM »
I'm  j e a l o u s. Great job! Don't expensive new engines sound nice and tight!  ;) Didn't sound TOO bad to my old deaf ears  ;D

Reminder - with the smaller wheels and the lower exhaust be extra careful going over speed bumps and drive way cuts etc. You don't want to dent that great sounding shiny new exhaust.

I'm hoping that the rings will seat and the smoking will stop. If it doesn't stop after you get a few more miles on it pull the plugs and look for potential problem oily cylinders before you tear into it.

Why is the compression so high?! Do you have 12.5:1 pistons??

Why not install sync ports in the intake manifolds like we're doing with the CR carbs? It was an easy project. 1/8" brass tube connectors with rubber caps. I say that now but I haven't used mine yet. I have a lead on a potential dyno shop in town so I hope to use mine soon.
Jealous? GOOD   ;)  Of course yours isn't chopped liver either!

Care over bumps, check. It is quiet and mellow, just right for an old man's ears. Probably a little restrictive too. The carbs were set up for less restriction so will probably need a little leaning out.

I wasn't thinking so much about rings causing the smoking, i was fixed on the older style guides. So that's hopeful. But I'm not really much of a believer that it will fix itself.

Embarrassed to say I don't know for sure the CR of the pistons. I bot them so long ago... but knowing that it would be a streetbike I can't imagine that i would have gone over 10.5-1. The cranking pressure comes from a tight set up. In the drag shop i worked at the owner was keen on cranking pressures above 200PSI, regardless of set up. Personally i don't know if this is desirable or my boss was just nuts.  I'm open for an explanation, are high cranking pressures good, bad, or immaterial? I have read some posts in the performance forum where it was indicated high cranking pressures were a good thing. Regardless, I've got high cranking pressures and I was raised that that was a good thing.

I would install the sync ports if it comes to that. The real problem is the way the adjusters are laid out beneath the carb tops. Not accessible without removing the carbs, it appeared. So I'll look at that in the winter down times. I never synched them in the decades and 10s of thousands of miles I put on it before this iteration.

PS: Now that i think of it, with my frame rails removed they would be accessible. It must have been some other obstacle. The VM29s are used a lot by the Kawasaki Z1 guys,very popular carbs, routinely bring very good prices on eBay. Z1Enterprises is a "buyer" of them, per their website, as they are discontinued. When I bought mine in 1980, they were a lot more common. So synching them must either not be an issue or I'm missing something.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 06:48:39 AM by MCRider »
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline IndyFour

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2438 on: August 01, 2012, 02:15:40 PM »
Great video Ron!  Is she ready for public view yet?  The monthly vintage meet at the Steer Inn (10th and Emerson) is tomorrow.   ;). Hope to see you there.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2439 on: August 01, 2012, 02:25:28 PM »
Great video Ron!  Is she ready for public view yet?  The monthly vintage meet at the Steer Inn (10th and Emerson) is tomorrow.   ;). Hope to see you there.
Not really the front end needs sorting. IT bounces really bad.

I'm heading out to Corydon IN with MSTA (ridemsta.com) and I'll need the time to get ready.

Soon I hope.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2440 on: August 05, 2012, 07:04:19 PM »
Congrats on the beautiful build Ron!
Keep her close and enjoy her!
David- back in the desert SW!

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2441 on: August 05, 2012, 08:47:24 PM »
Great video Ron!  Is she ready for public view yet?  The monthly vintage meet at the Steer Inn (10th and Emerson) is tomorrow.   ;). Hope to see you there.
Not really the front end needs sorting. IT bounces really bad.

Two words: gold valves

With the oil volume and viscosity dialed in, and the cartridge emulator preload properly set, it feels pretty good (for a forty year old design).
Take care,
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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2442 on: August 06, 2012, 01:01:56 PM »
Great video Ron!  Is she ready for public view yet?  The monthly vintage meet at the Steer Inn (10th and Emerson) is tomorrow.   ;). Hope to see you there.
Not really the front end needs sorting. IT bounces really bad.

Two words: gold valves

With the oil volume and viscosity dialed in, and the cartridge emulator preload properly set, it feels pretty good (for a forty year old design).
Thanks for that, couldn't agree more. I had them put in my HawkGT by a suspension shop. What a difference!

But for Phaedrus, I used an early fork, the one with the bushings, circlips, and pistons. Gold valves won't work. If I had it to do over I'd have gotten the later fork.

Anyway, mine is set up the way it was when I raced and then put it on the street thereafter. My memory is that it worked pretty good. I'd Teflon coated the sliding sides of the bushings and pistons, used new springs and an airfork adapter. So I'm assuming I can get it to work at least as well as it did 20 years ago.

First, the tire was mounted and balanced by a shop, and I didn't double check their work. With as many threads as there have been about shops messing up tire installs, I need to start there. I have my own balance stand. While the wheel is off, I'll revisit the alignment of the tubes and the forkbrace. Between the wheel and the tube alignment, I suspect I'll find the problem. I used ATF, so I don't think the fluid is too stiff. I may have too much preload in the springs, I'll check the spacer length.
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2443 on: August 06, 2012, 01:03:44 PM »


That's great Ron! Makes me sad I won't be here for Phaedrus' inaugural Fall ride. I'm going back to my home state of Illinois come the end of August. Going to be living up near Woodstock, IL. I'll sure miss the Hoosier state and all my SOHC4 friends I've made here.  :'(
Sorry you'll miss the ride. I was favoring SW Indiana to suit you this year. Hope the move to IL is a step up for whatever reason.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2444 on: August 06, 2012, 01:13:55 PM »
I bought a total of 5 sidestands off eBay in rapid succession, avg 8 to 20$ each. All the CB750 stands were the same length, CB550 too. 3 of the CB750 stands were advertised as K4, but they were all different, as to rubber tipped, toe kickers and one was plain (definitely not K4) As I was getting ready to leave on the FJR for the weekend, one came in the mail for a CB450. ShaaZaaM!

It has the same pivot point, same spring pickup point, but the length from the spring to the bottom was a good 3/4 inch less than the others! Looks to be perfect. But don't know yet. No pictures as the camera is in the FJR tankbag which is parked in a garage in Magnet IN.   :(

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=111021.0

I may have to spend the next shop day time driving down there to retrieve it.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2445 on: August 07, 2012, 05:03:17 AM »
Actually that makes sense to me Ron, the K0 leaned over a bit more than the later models, and some K0 parts were interchangeable with the 450. The K0 had shorter shocks than the k1 and up, and the later models stood more "upright" than the K0, so I'm guessing Honda specified a longer sidestand on the K1 and later models to reduce the lean that would have ensued from the longer rear shocks. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2446 on: August 07, 2012, 06:01:01 AM »
Actually that makes sense to me Ron, the K0 leaned over a bit more than the later models, and some K0 parts were interchangeable with the 450. The K0 had shorter shocks than the k1 and up, and the later models stood more "upright" than the K0, so I'm guessing Honda specified a longer sidestand on the K1 and later models to reduce the lean that would have ensued from the longer rear shocks. Cheers, Terry. ;D
Interesting, I did not know that. I got it installed last night but don't trust myself to drop it off the centerstand without a spotter. Ribs really smart.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2447 on: August 08, 2012, 06:41:18 AM »
Terry; So what you're really saying is for $8 + S&H, i scored a very rare, sandcast sidestand worth $3,000!   :D
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2448 on: August 08, 2012, 10:52:43 AM »
Sorry for the sidetrack of the current discussion...

Check this out!!

http://www.midamericaauctions.com/motorcycles/honda/honda-cl305-jim-morrison/

William Silver ran across it and posted on the VJMC email list
Isn't the paint great?
David- back in the desert SW!

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard"-Update 07/29/12 w/new pics & video
« Reply #2449 on: August 08, 2012, 03:45:42 PM »
Sorry for the sidetrack of the current discussion...

Check this out!!

http://www.midamericaauctions.com/motorcycles/honda/honda-cl305-jim-morrison/

William Silver ran across it and posted on the VJMC email list
Isn't the paint great?

Sweet!  You can own the Lizard King's Ride!
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