Topic: health care bill

[BeSeeingYou]

This poor woman has no Health Insurance. The bills for her child's asthma medication does not leave her enough money to buy a battery for her car, so she has to crank it. 

That looks like a French car and obviously as France ranks #1 in the world for health care she is taxed so heavily for affordable universal health care that she can't afford a car with an electric start or enough material to make a longer skirt.   

[ryder60]

businesses exist to make profit.

~Joe

I agree with Joe that businesses exist to make profit..... I think that problems arise because a lot of times excessive profits are at the expense of human life and well being. If there is only $100 between 100 people and one person owns $99, that leaves $1 for 99 people to live on.... where is the morality in that?

-------------

Then how long does it take for the guy with the $99.00 to get the other $1.00?

[Cormac]

I actually agree with retro, greed is the problem and we are being screwed. But not just by the big comps, by ourselves as well. Every time somebody loses a foot (or less) due to a problem in surgerie and sues for a few mil. costs go up for everybody. S happens, deal with it. Now if the doc was drunk or stupid, let the vic or the family go a few rounds out back with a baseball bat (or cricket bat, whatever). Then lets see how many cases of negligence come about.

I also think sloth is a big part of the problem as well... So I'll compromise on my stance, I will support health care for all, as long as they have to show a W-2 prior to recieving government paid for care. I firmly support dish washers, burger flippers, and ditch diggers... Having been all three myself, depressingly recently. But you do what ever it takes.

[HavocTurbo]

I also think sloth is a big part of the problem as well... So I'll compromise on my stance, I will support health care for all, as long as they have to show a W-2 prior to recieving government paid for care. I firmly support dish washers, burger flippers, and ditch diggers... Having been all three myself, depressingly recently. But you do what ever it takes.

See... now that's what I'm talking about.

[BeSeeingYou]

A few health care observations and rankings.

the US ranks 37th in overall health care.
It's kind of odd the US places such a great emphasis on winning Olympic Gold Metals
and we're no were near the top in health care.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

and 72nd in this study,

http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_performance_ranks.html


but we're 2nd in total health expenditures.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/total_health_expenditure_as_pecent_of_gdp_2000_to_2005.html

"The United States, for example, has reduced the number of preventable deaths for people under the age of 75 to 110 deaths for every 100,000 people, compared with 115 deaths five years earlier, but other countries have made greater strides. As a result, the United States now ranks last in preventable mortality, just below Ireland and Portugal, according to the Commonwealth Fund’s analysis of World Health Organization data. The leader by that measure is France, followed by Japan and Australia."

Looking at all these numbers it's clear, the US ain't worth a crap in Health Care.

I  agree with you here but at least we are 1 and 2 places above Slovenia and Cuba.  U.S.A, U.S.A.!  Of course the naysayers will point to the fact that many world leaders and other wealthy and privileged people will come to the U.S. for high tech, expensive treatment.  This only shows that for this type of treatment the U.S. is the best or close to it but is says nothing about affordability and accessability for all citizens.  This is were we fall flat.

[BeSeeingYou]

I actually agree with retro, greed is the problem and we are being screwed. But not just by the big comps, by ourselves as well. Every time somebody loses a foot (or less) due to a problem in surgerie and sues for a few mil. costs go up for everybody. S happens, deal with it. Now if the doc was drunk or stupid, let the vic or the family go a few rounds out back with a baseball bat (or cricket bat, whatever). Then lets see how many cases of negligence come about.

I also think sloth is a big part of the problem as well... So I'll compromise on my stance, I will support health care for all, as long as they have to show a W-2 prior to recieving government paid for care. I firmly support dish washers, burger flippers, and ditch diggers... Having been all three myself, depressingly recently. But you do what ever it takes.

I think the lawsuit issue can be a bit of a red herring.  We all here about these big awards but what you don't hear is how these amounts are lowered on appeal.  It just isn't as noteworthy a headline as "Man awarded 10 million dollars for receiving 38D breast implants by mistake".

Will a 1099 do?  I haven't had a W-2 in eight years.

[tramp]

i was watching a news article how some people just go to emergency wards to get warm and eat
some cities have taken these people and given them help with other government assistance already in place
saving the hospital millions a year
perhaps we need to take better care of where our money is going
that would help health care too

[Rocking-M]

Will a 1099 do?  I haven't had a W-2 in eight years.

or a 1040?

[MCRider]

Will a 1099 do?  I haven't had a W-2 in eight years.

or a 1040?

I have the statistics as its part of my job. A large number of people, assuming most of the uninsured, are below the requirements for filiing. In fact, nearly 50% of the taxpayer units owe no federal income tax and file to obtain credits for low income like the Earned Income Credit. A frighteningly large number of households exist on Socail Security and other forms of welfare (Soc Sec is welfare when they receive payments but have never paid in to the system and that number has exploded) and have no requirement to file, yet I suggest they constitute a large number of the uninsured.

and the underground econmy is alive and well in that demographic and little is kown about them.

It was revealed only recently that the number of people receiveing transfer payments of one kind or another now exceeds the number who don't. This is the beginning of the end of all empires in history. I repeat the quote from Margaret Thatcher: "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money."

There is no way to keep a handle on the potential and reall costs and abuses of our welfare state, which this bill will only exacerbate, IMO.

[edbikerii]

1040 would be fine with me, or a documented disability (drunks, drug addicts, fatties and most mental patients ought to go get a damned job, too), or proof that the patient is under the age of 18.

And no, the US is not 37th in the world in terms of healthcare.  The first time I heard that, I knew it was so absolutely ludicrous that looked it up.

I found that the ranking is by the W.H.O., whose motives and criteria are questionable at best.  Their criteria have nothing to do with life expectancy or cancer cures or infant mortality, but rather are based on "Accessability to healthcare".  That is a totally meaningless, subjective criteria, which exposes their true, socialist, motive.

[MCRider]

1040 would be fine with me, or a documented disability (drunks, drug addicts, fatties and most mental patients ought to go get a damned job, too), or proof that the patient is under the age of 18.

And no, the US is not 37th in the world in terms of healthcare.  The first time I heard that, I knew it was so absolutely ludicrous that looked it up.

I found that the ranking is by the W.H.O., whose motives and criteria are questionable at best.  Their criteria have nothing to do with life expectancy or cancer cures or infant mortality, but rather are based on "Accessability to healthcare".  That is a totally meaningless, subjective criteria, which exposes their true, socialist, motive.

Where the US ranks in terms of healthcare is a huge unknown. For example we are held as having a higher infant mortality than Cuba. Upon closer examination we find that when Cuba reports, they don't consider a born child as viable until after 2 weeks. So they don't count deaths of pre-born, premature or less than 2 weeks old as infant mortality.

In the US we consider a detectable fetus as viable. And count all deaths from that point forward.

You know what they say about statistics. And I'm subject to the siren's call as well.

But one can usually smell a dead fish.

[BobbyR]

And no, the US is not 37th in the world in terms of healthcare.  The first time I heard that, I knew it was so absolutely ludicrouhat looked it up.

I found that the ranking is by the W.H.O., whose motives and criteria are questionable at best.  Their criteria have nothing to do with life expectancy or cancer cures or infant mortality, but rather are based on "Accessability to healthcare".  That is a totally meaningless, subjective criteria, which exposes their true, socialist, motive.

I think that "Accessability to healthcare" is the issue, not the fact we have all this technology of which I am a recipient. To save us all money I want people with manageable conditions to be managed, not wait till they are in crisis and cost ME more money. We both want to save our hard earned money, we just have different ways of doing that.

[Rocking-M]

And no, the US is not 37th in the world in terms of healthcare.  The first time I heard that, I knew it was so absolutely ludicrouhat looked it up.

I found that the ranking is by the W.H.O., whose motives and criteria are questionable at best.  Their criteria have nothing to do with life expectancy or cancer cures or infant mortality, but rather are based on "Accessability to healthcare".  That is a totally meaningless, subjective criteria, which exposes their true, socialist, motive.

I think that "Accessability to healthcare" is the issue, not the fact we have all this technology of which I am a recipient. To save us all money I want people with manageable conditions to be managed, not wait till they are in crisis and cost ME more money. We both want to save our hard earned money, we just have different ways of doing that.

the other ranking is 72nd. and we have the most deaths of preventable mortality (in the countries used in the analysis) which is what could be lowered as per Bobby's and my contentions. Clearly we are way behind many many countries in "accessibility to health care".
Countries that are not socialists and provide excellent health care at a reasonable cost. Personally I do not see the W.H.O.'s motives nor criteria questionable. They have offered an unbiased objective study.

BTW, I've set down today and prepared a letter to all our Virginia representatives and senators.
It will be mail probably certified mail. I used the data above and my contentions with their inability to
address the real need, which is a single payer system, tax based, and a cut in other programs (defense) to
insure it's adequate funding at little to know tax increase.

[BeSeeingYou]

Will a 1099 do?  I haven't had a W-2 in eight years.

or a 1040?

I file a 1040 every year, my income is reported on a 1099 form or Schedule C.

[Rocking-M]

Will a 1099 do?  I haven't had a W-2 in eight years.

or a 1040?

I file a 1040 every year, my income is reported on a 1099 form or Schedule C.

my wife handles our tax forms, I'm self employed and she has plenty of tax
experience since her mom owned an H&R Block office.

[bucky katt]

something like this would have been nice many years ago when my mom was diagnosed with lupus. her health insurance was canceled about a year later. i'm not convinced this didnt contribute to her death at only 62 from complications.

[tramp]

only time will tell on this one
jobs are tight, ask me
can those working afford to keep those not working on healthcare,don't know that one yet

[ev0lve]

only time will tell on this one
jobs are tight, ask me
can those working afford to keep those not working on healthcare,don't know that one yet

Should those working be forced to keep those not working on health care?

Well, yeah. Pretty much the same way you're forced to educate their kids or pay the cops to show up to their houses or fix the roads they drive on or let them in your libraries or (gasp) give them emergency care.

[MCRider]

only time will tell on this one
jobs are tight, ask me
can those working afford to keep those not working on healthcare,don't know that one yet

Should those working be forced to keep those not working on health care?

Will Atlas shrug?  

[BobbyR]

only time will tell on this one
jobs are tight, ask me
can those working afford to keep those not working on healthcare,don't know that one yet

Should those working be forced to keep those not working on health care?

Well you are now anyway. How about the guy who put in 20 years in a plant and it closed, is he a leech or a fellow who finds himself in a tight spot, maybe he can get a job at minimum wage and they keep his hours just below full time. I know they do that in Florida. A supermarket will have two part time Managers so they don't have to provide benefits.

[BeSeeingYou]

only time will tell on this one
jobs are tight, ask me
can those working afford to keep those not working on healthcare,don't know that one yet

Should those working be forced to keep those not working on health care?

To repeat what has been mentioned a few times. You are already paying for the uninsured.  They tend to use the emergency services as a last resort and the most expensive way to receive health care.  Wouldn't it be cheaper to provide health care so they would get proper treatment before it is an emergency?

[w1sa]

..................................BTW, I've set down today and prepared a letter to all our Virginia representatives and senators.
It will be mail probably certified mail. I used the data above and my contentions with their inability to
address the real need, which is a single payer system, tax based, and a cut in other programs (defense) to
insure it's adequate funding at little to know tax increase.

Now that's a truly praiseworthy move, almost deserving a medal in its own write...

[andy750]

And no, the US is not 37th in the world in terms of healthcare.  The first time I heard that, I knew it was so absolutely ludicrous that looked it up.

I found that the ranking is by the W.H.O., whose motives and criteria are questionable at best.  Their criteria have nothing to do with life expectancy or cancer cures or infant mortality, but rather are based on "Accessability to healthcare".  That is a totally meaningless, subjective criteria, which exposes their true, socialist, motive.

I was reading the British paper "The Guardian" this morning in fact and there is an article on infant mortality in the US - a women in the US is five times greater than a women in Greece to die  during childbirth (source: Amnesty).

Quote from the article:

"Good maternal care should not be considered a luxury available only to those who can access the best doctors"

Keep sticking your head in the sand Ed and it will be all right 

[seaweb11]

I knew Sambuca and garlic were good for me

[bucky katt]

I knew Sambuca and garlic were good for me

i thought everyone knew that